Thursday, October 18th, 2012 at 3:00 pm  |  89 responses

Top 50: Kyrie Irving, no. 17

The definitive ranking of the NBA’s best players for ’12-13.

by Abe Schwadron | @abe_squad

In some ways, it pains me to write this.

See, this is the love letter I was supposed to be writing to—er, about—John Wall. You know, the franchise point guard selected No. 1 overall in the NBA Draft, hyped as a future All-Star set to change his team’s fortunes.

Yeah, that guy.

On my personal list, I ranked Uncle Drew at No. 15—ahead of a handful of names you’ll see over the next few days, including Tony Parker. Which means that, for you math wizards out there, I think Kyrie Irving is—if you allow me to exclude a probably partial season from Derrick Rose—a top-five point guard in the NBA. Right now.

What’s not to love about Kyrie? A year removed from playing in just 11 games as a freshman at Duke, he showed enough in his freshman campaign in the pros to live up to his No. 1 draft position and more.

He’s skilled, he’s heady, he’s confident, he’s a leader and he’s a winner. Beyond earning the affection of NBA fans (or at least those with League Pass) in ‘11-12, he added Rookie of the Year honors to a first-year resume that featured an 18.5 ppg/5.4 apg/3.7 rpg line in 51 games. In his first 23 games, 10 times he scored 20 or more points. In a 32-point outburst against his hometown New Jersey Nets, he dropped 21 in the fourth quarter alone. And, considering that dude didn’t blow out the candles for his 20th birthday until the last month of the season, well, watch out.

Sometimes it’s easy to dismiss statistics in the face of the eye test. Players can rack up points on a crummy team, and we know it. It’s why David Lee finished No. 12 in the League in scoring last season, and yet he can’t sniff this list. In Kyrie’s case, it’s the exact opposite—his stats don’t accurately measure just how good he was in year one.

For one, he nearly made the Cavs a Playoff player, despite being hobbled both physically and by the cast of characters around him. But more importantly, the kid who has yet to throw back his first legal drink has cemented himself as one of the game’s best closers last season.

Ask Boston in January. Sacramento in February. Denver in March. All victims of Irving’s late-game heroics. All in the last 10 seconds of the fourth quarter. And all in different ways.

To beat the Celtics, a spin move out of a pick-and-roll, finished with a lefty finger roll. Against the Kings, a lightning quick blow-by to earn a trip to the free-throw line, where he was true. Versus the Nuggs, a full-court sprint past an elite perimeter defender in Arron Afflalo followed by a twisting layup in the face of Nene.

The kid’s got ice in his veins, the heart of a lion and killer instinct. So much so, that he genuinely challenged Kobe Bryant to a game of one-on-one during Team USA Olympic training camp over the summer.

By now, you’ve seen the tape, in which Kobe responds, “You just came out of high school!”

Shit, he’s right. Irving played fewer than a dozen games at the college level before instantly being inserted as a starting lead guard in the L. That’s like skipping from elementary school science to AP physics after two weeks of barely paying attention in junior high.

True to form, Kyrie hit back, “Some people need 30 games, and some people need 11.”

I’m inclined to believe him. Because while some players need a couple seasons to crack our Top 20, he’s done it in one. And making the All-Star team and Cleveland into a post-season contender could creep him even higher in a year’s time.

Leaving John Wall to play catch-up.


Where should Kyrie Irving rank in the SLAMonline Top 50?

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SLAMonline Top 50 Players 2012
Rank Player Team Position Pos. Rank
50 Greg Monroe Pistons C 8
49 Tyreke Evans Kings PG 14
48 Brandon Jennings Bucks PG 13
47 Stephen Curry Warriors PG 12
46 Ricky Rubio TWolves PG 11
45 Al Jefferson Jazz PF 14
44 Anthony Davis Hornets PF 13
43 Serge Ibaka Thunder PF 12
42 Al Horford Hawks C 7
41 Ty Lawson Nuggets PG 10
40 Danny Granger Pacers SF 6
39 Tim Duncan Spurs PF 11
38 John Wall Wizards PG 9
37 Monta Ellis Bucks SG 8
36 Zach Randolph Grizzlies PF 10
35 Roy Hibbert Pacers C 6
34 Tyson Chandler Knicks C 5
33 Eric Gordon Hornets SG 7
32 Kevin Garnett Celtics PF 9
31 Manu Ginobili Spurs SG 6
30 Amar’e Stoudemire Knicks PF 8
29 Marc Gasol Grizzlies C 4
28 DeMarcus Cousins Kings C 3
27 Paul Pierce Celtics SF 5
26 Andre Iguodala Nuggets SG 5
25 Rudy Gay Grizzlies SF 4
24 Josh Smith Hawks PF 7
23 Derrick Rose Bulls PG 8
22 Joe Johnson Nets SG 4
21 Steve Nash Lakers PG 7
20 James Harden Thunder SG 3
19 Pau Gasol Lakers PF 6
18 Chris Bosh Heat PF 5
17 Kyrie Irving Cavs PG 6

Notes
• Rankings are based solely on projected ’12-13 performance.
• Contributors to this list include: Jake Appleman, Maurice Bobb, Rodger Bohn, Brendan Bowers, Franklyn Calle, David Cassilo, Bryan Crawford, Adam Figman, Eldon Khorshidi, Eddie Maisonet III, Ryne Nelson, Ben Osborne, Allen Powell II, Sam Rubenstein, Jonathan Santiago, Abe Schwadron, Leo Sepkowitz, Dave Spahn, Ben Taylor, Tzvi Twersky, Peter Walsh, Tracy Weissenberg, Yaron Weitzman, DeMarco Williams and Dave Zirin.
• Want more of the SLAMonline Top 50? Check out the archive.

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  • Dagger

    It’s true that stats aren’t everything, and of course all statistics have to be approached cautiously and tempered with qualitative data. So, to play devil’s advocate: how much can we really get from the stats Hollinger throws out there that paint Irving as the league’s worst defender? Yeah, opposing points had a PER of 19 against Irving, but how much of that is related to the Cavs having nobody who can protect the rim? The Cavs were much better defensively with Sessions on the floor, but how much of that is because opposing starters ripped the rest of the roster to shreds while Irving started? I’m definitely not saying that Irving isn’t a lazy defender – Byron Scott said as much, after all – but I’m not sure he’s the worst defender in the league, and I think there’s a good chance he’ll improve with time. Especially when his coach is Byron Scott.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i know, that’s why i said he’s “slightly” overrated.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Hollinger was just putting the stat into perspective. The actual stat is from Synergy. Which tracks every single possession in the league. — Think about it like this, Irving had Anderson Verajao helping him at the rim, who is one of the best defensive bigs in the whole league. And Irving was worse than guys like Steve Nash, Luke Ridnour, Kemba Walker – I mean he was worse than guys who have similar to worse help at the rim defensively. Irving was putrid, horrible, terrible, awful, appalling on defense. But he was the polar opposite on offense, which will inevitable (assuming health) bring him into the upper crust of players. He’s just not there yet.

  • Datkid

    I actually don’t think Kyrie is better than Wall at all. He’s just not in as bad of a situation i.e. not injured, not with a wildly dysfunctional organization, his coach isn’t an idiot, and he never had to play with javale mcgee. Wall is not overrated, he’s just poorly situated. plus if we factor in defense, they’re dead even IMO despite Kyrie’s offensive brilliance. Wall just gotta go to GS or Phoenix or something smh

  • Datkid

    I agree completley. I said this before, but the only reason that he’s better than Wall right now is because he’s in a better situation. IMO. but being from NC I have an incredible John Wall Bias.

  • Datkid

    All that said though Kyrie is a joy to watch.

  • Dagger

    Can’t say I watched many Cavs games last year so I’ll take your word for it. Either way I agree that Irving’s a little overrated on this list.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i don’t like making it sound like i’m bashing Irving. I love the kids game, not a PG in the league i enjoy watching play offense more right now, i was just tryna convey why i feel he is slightly overrated. I always feel like when i get in these conversations i come off like i’m talking down about a player.

  • LeroyShonuff

    Wall shouldn’t even been ranked 38th…

  • LeroyShonuff

    Of course offensive players are rated higher. Why do you think Affalo wasn’t even mentioned along with Irving being ranked higher than Iggy. I personally would rather have a guy give me 15 and limit hit guy to 12 than him give me 19 and give up 21. But that’s the way the cookie crumbles

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Because Arron Afflalo isn’t a top 50 player. And his reputation as an elite defender is a bunch of bullshit, he defended Kobe well for a stretch f games and people started saying he was a great defender, when in reality he’s not, he’s barely above average.
    .

  • danpowers

    true, i dont see any reason why he shouldnt develop into that type of leader during the years (offensively).

  • http://twitter.com/hubertdavisfor3 hubertdavisfor3

    You make it seem like Kyrie’s been in the league for a few years already. Like i already said, paul only averaged 1 more APG per 36 min than Kyrie did as a rookie. There’s clearly room for improvement. I should’ve clarified that he’s more comparable to Paul offensively than defensively. He doesn’t play like true shoot first PGs like marbury, francis, etc. Paul is one of the best scorers in the NBA when he wants to be. Kyrie’s decision making will only get better, and he has solid vision. I still think it’s foolish to assume the guy can’t improve defensively over time. But yes, he won’t compare to paul in that regard.

  • Junior Taylor

    Irving’s superb skills on the offense out trumps his defensive shortcomings. LeBron was a terrible defender earlier in his career and he put enough time/effort into becoming a world-class defender. Irving probably won’t ever be in LeBron’s category defensively but he definitely has the work ethic and drive needed to be a good defender.

  • Junior Taylor

    Irving’s career could look eerily similar to Rose’s career. Hype builds after a stellar rook campaign the improves going into Year 2 and then blossoms * literally* during his 3rd year. Mark my words….a modern day Nostradamus at work

  • http://twitter.com/hubertdavisfor3 hubertdavisfor3

    You’re just clinging to a stat as if it’s the end all be all of his assessment as a defender. If you look at guards who played at least 20 MPG, and appeared in at least 40 games last season, his defensive rating (pts allowed per 100 possessions) is still low, but not at the bottom:

    http://bkref.com/tiny/0wwGn

    Is it really out of the question that he eventually ends up in the middle of that list?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    For one, his defensive rating of 110 is god awful. Second, that stat must be looked at under the context of the teamhw plays on and the minutes he plays. You can’t compare the defensive rating of a guy on Cleveland to that of a guy on Charlotte and think what you find is going to give you an answer. Combing ALL advanced defensive stats, Kyrie Irving was near the bottom of the league. Looking at his defense per each possession, he was the worst defender out of everyone. These are just facts.
    .

  • danpowers

    actually no elite defender really holds star players to 12 ppg over long stretches. kobe, bron or durant would still score 18-30ppg against a bruce bowen in his prime. he would just lower their fg% and score much fewer points. this is still very valuable for any team to have, just in affalo’s case by far not enough to crack the top 50. not to speak about his ridicolous contract.

  • TR

    See man, everyone’s disappointed in Wall. I’m taking Kyrie everyday of the week

  • danpowers

    the team / core built around irving just need some more time as rose’s did. thats a little different so i think irving will need a bit more time to get the same kind of hype.

  • Redd

    Too high.

  • Dutch Rich

    I don’t think MJ had to ever worry about his job, but it’s well documented that he got very negative feedback on his defensive prowess early in his career. We all know how that ended up with some renewed focus. So that there is a big one that refutes your combined statements. Then there was another all time great in Allen Iverson who got a lot of crap for his on ball D because of incessant gambling the passing lanes. He also enjoyed extensive success before his off-court gambling made him a persona non grata. On ball defense and help defense is something you can get better at through hard work and studying your opponent and the offense they are running. Unlike shot blocking for example which is a lot more complicated to master. Yet, Kyrie seems to have a knack for that too with natural timing to boot. Not sure why we’re hammering on his D when as a PG he really needs to improve on assists. The defense or lack of it seems to be a by-product of his predicament, and not really a lack of natural ability and will certainly progress to a very acceptable level. The article you linked to, from Hollinger (which I just read), point all these things out as well.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Sorry, I’m not gonna read your whole comment, Jordan was never criticized for his defense, he was just not paid attention to. .
    And Iverson was always an elite help defender and sub par on ball defender. .
    Neither player had some sort of defensive renaissance

  • LeroyShonuff

    Totally better??? Or more talented? Their is a difference. Yes he was more talented, but Sam was more consistent and reliable. Also Sam was money in the clutch.

  • LeroyShonuff

    Nobody will stop an elite scorer but you can hold very good to good scorers. Think of when Tony Allen locked down Kevin Martin after Martin had a string of consecutive 20pt games. I would rather have a player who is decent offensively and spectacular defensively than other way around.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    I exaggerated, big time, my bad. but Rod Strickland was better at his best then Cassell was at his. He lead the league in assists and put up like 18ppg. Strickland was the truth. Cassell was a very good scoring PG, he just didn’t run a team like Rod did (imo) – but your argument that Cassell had a better career is good that’s my fault.

  • danpowers

    depends on the team and guys you got. generally speaking id say that a guy like martin would generate more wins for you as tony allen if both would be the main guy on your team. i am a defense-fanatic but thats just how it is. BUT if i was wallace i wouldnt trade allen for martin because for this team allen is more valuable as they got enough scorers already (even though they could use some consistent 3pt shooting).

  • slamjunkie

    theres gonna be a lot of people talkin about where they believe a certain player should be ranked. but one thing i dont understand is how joe johnson is rated higher than paul pierce. in your right mind would you ever take johnson over pierce. d will wouldnt. slam dropped the ball on this one big time

  • The Fury

    SLAM just made Kyrie the newest under the microscope player because of this ranking.

  • spit hot fiyah

    100% agreed

  • Max

    Wall will have a better season imo.

  • Anthony Dixon

    thanks

  • http://www.facebook.com/qcollingwood Interdico Scriptor

    See… that wasn’t too hard. I am harsh on you but sometimes you just rub me the wrong way

  • Dutch Rich

    While I disagreed I didn’t give you that down vote 2 comments ago. I know you track those stats too.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    LOL, you know that? where do i keep track of them?

  • RG190

    I remember a time when Tyreke Evans got sooo much hype after his rookie year. Let’s hope there isn’t a part 2 to that…

  • Dutch Rich

    I’m thinking you keep em in an abondoned Airforce hangar out in the desert somewhere.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    wait….have you been there?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    ? responses like that are so weird. — What wasn’t too hard? When are you harsh? i’m sorry?

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