Thursday, October 18th, 2012 at 3:00 pm  |  89 responses

Top 50: Kyrie Irving, no. 17

The definitive ranking of the NBA’s best players for ’12-13.

by Abe Schwadron | @abe_squad

In some ways, it pains me to write this.

See, this is the love letter I was supposed to be writing to—er, about—John Wall. You know, the franchise point guard selected No. 1 overall in the NBA Draft, hyped as a future All-Star set to change his team’s fortunes.

Yeah, that guy.

On my personal list, I ranked Uncle Drew at No. 15—ahead of a handful of names you’ll see over the next few days, including Tony Parker. Which means that, for you math wizards out there, I think Kyrie Irving is—if you allow me to exclude a probably partial season from Derrick Rose—a top-five point guard in the NBA. Right now.

What’s not to love about Kyrie? A year removed from playing in just 11 games as a freshman at Duke, he showed enough in his freshman campaign in the pros to live up to his No. 1 draft position and more.

He’s skilled, he’s heady, he’s confident, he’s a leader and he’s a winner. Beyond earning the affection of NBA fans (or at least those with League Pass) in ‘11-12, he added Rookie of the Year honors to a first-year resume that featured an 18.5 ppg/5.4 apg/3.7 rpg line in 51 games. In his first 23 games, 10 times he scored 20 or more points. In a 32-point outburst against his hometown New Jersey Nets, he dropped 21 in the fourth quarter alone. And, considering that dude didn’t blow out the candles for his 20th birthday until the last month of the season, well, watch out.

Sometimes it’s easy to dismiss statistics in the face of the eye test. Players can rack up points on a crummy team, and we know it. It’s why David Lee finished No. 12 in the League in scoring last season, and yet he can’t sniff this list. In Kyrie’s case, it’s the exact opposite—his stats don’t accurately measure just how good he was in year one.

For one, he nearly made the Cavs a Playoff player, despite being hobbled both physically and by the cast of characters around him. But more importantly, the kid who has yet to throw back his first legal drink has cemented himself as one of the game’s best closers last season.

Ask Boston in January. Sacramento in February. Denver in March. All victims of Irving’s late-game heroics. All in the last 10 seconds of the fourth quarter. And all in different ways.

To beat the Celtics, a spin move out of a pick-and-roll, finished with a lefty finger roll. Against the Kings, a lightning quick blow-by to earn a trip to the free-throw line, where he was true. Versus the Nuggs, a full-court sprint past an elite perimeter defender in Arron Afflalo followed by a twisting layup in the face of Nene.

The kid’s got ice in his veins, the heart of a lion and killer instinct. So much so, that he genuinely challenged Kobe Bryant to a game of one-on-one during Team USA Olympic training camp over the summer.

By now, you’ve seen the tape, in which Kobe responds, “You just came out of high school!”

Shit, he’s right. Irving played fewer than a dozen games at the college level before instantly being inserted as a starting lead guard in the L. That’s like skipping from elementary school science to AP physics after two weeks of barely paying attention in junior high.

True to form, Kyrie hit back, “Some people need 30 games, and some people need 11.”

I’m inclined to believe him. Because while some players need a couple seasons to crack our Top 20, he’s done it in one. And making the All-Star team and Cleveland into a post-season contender could creep him even higher in a year’s time.

Leaving John Wall to play catch-up.


Where should Kyrie Irving rank in the SLAMonline Top 50?

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SLAMonline Top 50 Players 2012
Rank Player Team Position Pos. Rank
50 Greg Monroe Pistons C 8
49 Tyreke Evans Kings PG 14
48 Brandon Jennings Bucks PG 13
47 Stephen Curry Warriors PG 12
46 Ricky Rubio TWolves PG 11
45 Al Jefferson Jazz PF 14
44 Anthony Davis Hornets PF 13
43 Serge Ibaka Thunder PF 12
42 Al Horford Hawks C 7
41 Ty Lawson Nuggets PG 10
40 Danny Granger Pacers SF 6
39 Tim Duncan Spurs PF 11
38 John Wall Wizards PG 9
37 Monta Ellis Bucks SG 8
36 Zach Randolph Grizzlies PF 10
35 Roy Hibbert Pacers C 6
34 Tyson Chandler Knicks C 5
33 Eric Gordon Hornets SG 7
32 Kevin Garnett Celtics PF 9
31 Manu Ginobili Spurs SG 6
30 Amar’e Stoudemire Knicks PF 8
29 Marc Gasol Grizzlies C 4
28 DeMarcus Cousins Kings C 3
27 Paul Pierce Celtics SF 5
26 Andre Iguodala Nuggets SG 5
25 Rudy Gay Grizzlies SF 4
24 Josh Smith Hawks PF 7
23 Derrick Rose Bulls PG 8
22 Joe Johnson Nets SG 4
21 Steve Nash Lakers PG 7
20 James Harden Thunder SG 3
19 Pau Gasol Lakers PF 6
18 Chris Bosh Heat PF 5
17 Kyrie Irving Cavs PG 6

Notes
• Rankings are based solely on projected ’12-13 performance.
• Contributors to this list include: Jake Appleman, Maurice Bobb, Rodger Bohn, Brendan Bowers, Franklyn Calle, David Cassilo, Bryan Crawford, Adam Figman, Eldon Khorshidi, Eddie Maisonet III, Ryne Nelson, Ben Osborne, Allen Powell II, Sam Rubenstein, Jonathan Santiago, Abe Schwadron, Leo Sepkowitz, Dave Spahn, Ben Taylor, Tzvi Twersky, Peter Walsh, Tracy Weissenberg, Yaron Weitzman, DeMarco Williams and Dave Zirin.
• Want more of the SLAMonline Top 50? Check out the archive.

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  • ctk

    too high no way around it …team aint sniffin the playoffs…he avg. on D…avg vision…he just a scoring pg …more efficent Brandon jennings ..more flashy S.Curry at best

  • danpowers

    once again defense doesnt seem to be an important part of the game anymore. not even worth to be mentioned? smh. nice read about the positive aspects of his game tho.

  • unkle true

    UNCLE DREWWW!!! I GET BUCKETS!!

  • unkle true

    UNCLE DREW!!! I GET BUCKETS

  • MUBWAR

    i had no faith in him when he was picked 1st overall and now im amazed every single time he hits the floor. thank god i was so wrooooooong

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Get him a good/great big man and the Cavs are back to being a playoff team. Top 10 PG. Top 5 in another season or two. Looking at PGs, all of the PGs who play good defense are still left so I have no issue with him being this high at all.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Little overrated. His league worst defensive player per possession output from last season is indicative of that.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Have to remember he only played 10 games at Duke. His talent alone is good enough for this spot. Can’t name a PG who’s already been listed who should be ahead of him. He’ll learn how to play defense after coming into contact with guys like CP3, Westbrook and Rondo.

  • Slick Ric

    Many guys are overrated defensively….Westbrook and wall come to mind. Neither are as bad of a defender but both guys are so inconsistent defensively.

  • danpowers

    amen

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    no, no, no, you don’t understand. Statistically speaking, Kyrie Irving was the worst defensive player in the NBA last season that played heavy minutes. Any position. He was THAT bad.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    when has a player EVER magically learned how to play defense? Name one player in the history of basketball to start as a bad defensive PG and become one by the end of their career…..

  • LeroyShonuff

    Too high, but will be a great one day. He is horrible defensively but that should improve. Also, the slam lustfest of John Wall will never end. He is the new Rod Strickland

  • danpowers

    but overall above guys like gasol, bosh, pierce, gay, etc? you cant compare different positions, sure. but it leaves a strange impression to see him that high in the ranking

  • Dutch Rich

    This listing seems to be extremely sided towards offensive ability. In all fairness with regard to his essential duties, Kyrie simply doesn’t have enough game film under his belt to be a solid defender against NBA competition…yet. Much more speed and strenght than what he’s faced in his rapid ascent. But I’m sure he’s heard the critics and had plenty of time to work on it while nursing a broken perfect stranger. Not going to argue Slam’s crystal ball but I expect great things from this kid.

  • Anthony Dixon

    where do you see that stat?

  • http://twitter.com/hubertdavisfor3 hubertdavisfor3

    He may very well be too high right now, but if you don’t see a poor man’s chris paul in him, I don’t know what to tell you. Already shows the ability to get to any spot he wants to on the court, especially at the end of games. He has far from average court vision. Paul only averaged 1 more APG per 36 min than Irving his rookie year. The kid has future top 5 PG written all over him.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk
  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    it’s always slanted towards offense. The Casual Fan Dilemma

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    He doesn’t have to turn into Gary Payton. He just needs to at least show some effort on that end of the floor. Steve Nash has 2 MVP awards without ever playing defense.

  • Rainman

    Dont agree with where he stands on the list (top 20) or where he sits on the list of top pg’s. He’s a bit overhyped for my liking, period.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    I just can’t put any of the PGs who have already been listed ahead of him. I’m glad I didn’t vote with the SLAM guys because it must be difficult given the kind of talent that’s in the league right now. I expect a huge season from Irving and I think it’s highly possible that he has a better season than Pierce, Bosh, Gay and Gasol given that he’s the cornerstone in Cleveland and has the keys to the franchise. I agree with this ranking mostly because I think he’ll have a season that is worthy of him being ranked 17th.

  • Rainman

    true, but u can compare pg’s…Nash…

  • Rainman

    Not “average” on D at all…The worst in the League statistically. Worse than Nash. Worse than JOSE CALDERON. Yeah, that bad.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    You said “he’ll learn how to play defense” – i said, i doubt it, that rarely happens.
    .
    In regards to the Nash comment — uhm so? I didn’t say Kyrie can’t be a great player, or an MVP (if he was give the SSOL Offense, i sure wouldn’t count it out) just that he won’t learn to be a good defender. There is no reason to believe he will.

  • Rainman

    Chris Paul is a completley different player. Chris Paul has averaged multiple 10+ assist seasons already. And is an amazing defender. Kyrie isnt gonna get near 10+ assists cuz he’s a shoot first player , and he is amazingly bad at defence. I love Kyrie Irving. He’s better than i expected him to be already (offensively) and he’s clutch. But give it some time people

  • Rainman

    Rod Strickland = best player to never make an all star game

  • LeroyShonuff

    I’m not sure if Sam Cassell ever been but if he didn’t I would rank him above Rod. Rod was too inconsistent

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    He doesn’t have to be. It would be nice if he did, but if he never does, he’ll still move up this list as the seasons go by.

  • Rainman

    he made it in his year in Minny lol

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    most definitely he will, my only issue is his ranking this season, his defensive weaknesses are glaring, so I think he’s just a little overrated. Maybe like 6-10 spots

  • juan ghettocruz

    r u all crazy this young dude better than cb, nash, gasol.. he has nothing to prove yet.. u make me laugh men

  • Dagger

    Talented scorers with shaky defense come into the league all the time. Many find that their offensive talent earned them recognition and a high draft ranking. Upon entering the league, the more motivated (or less offensively talented) among them gradually improve their defense, sometimes dramatically in the space of a season. Lebron is a good example: shaky defender when he entered the league, then dramatically improved as of about 5 years ago. Irving will never have the defensive impact of a Lebron, but I see no reason to believe that a motivated young superstar like him wouldn’t at least improve during an off season in which he played against superstar two-way players. We’ll see.

  • http://tddaily.com/ Abe Schwadron

    In fairness, that’s my personal John Wall bias leaking through. Sure, we’re all big fans of John at SLAM HQ, but being an ever-frustrated Wizards fan makes it even more painful for me to see Kyrie surpassing him so quickly.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    How is there a SLAM lustfest when Wall is only ranked 38th?

  • shutup

    Not a point guard but Bruce Bowen comes to mind and Raja Bell, as far as players that turned their games around to become defensive stoppers.

  • Slick Ric

    Really? Aw well…I didn’t know he was that bad.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i should reword what i said, when has a player ever become a great defender without doing it out of necessity to keep his job.

  • LeroyShonuff

    I understand that as a fan, but even you know, the writers of this website has this special affection for wall. I was actually surprised that wall is only listed as 38. Seems like the bias was put aside. I do understand why Irving is here, but I think unless he improves defensively, he will be exposed to a greater degree this year. The League is filled with talented guards. But overall I see your point

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    elo,If they are going by what they expect from him this season, I can’t imagine that he’ll have a worse season statistically than the guys he’s ahead of. There’s hype surrounding this guy because of his rookie season and how he played this summer against the Olympic Team in those scrimmages. I don’t know how much the SLAM voters thought about defense when they did these rankings, but I just can’t knock a guy too much for his defensive deficiencies. That’s why I mentioned Nash because I used to think he was overrated because he only played offense. I appreciate guys who are all-around players but they are becoming scarce as the years go by so I just have to take it for what it is. Looking at the stars and superstars in the league now, I can’t think of too many who are two way players. Either they’re great on offense and poor on defense (Melo, Nash, Irving), they’re good on defense but don’t produce much on offense (Tyson Chandler), or they’re good on defense but don’t produce as much as they used to on offense (KG). The best on the ball defender at the guard position will probably never make this list (Avery Bradley). A lot of people don’t even seem to understand what a good/great defender is anymore. They just look at blocks and steals.

  • LeroyShonuff

    I figured, just wasn’t totally sure. But who was Rod gonna honestly beat out? What guard was he replacing???

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    LeBron was a “shaky” defender, who was still about average. Irving was the worst defender in the league. WHEN STEVE NASH IS A BETTER DEFENDER THAN YOU……..there is little hope.

  • danpowers

    true true. my concern is just his defense. gasol, bosh, pierce, gay, etc actually play well on both sides of the ball, irving doesnt. i know that defensive numbers even of good defensive point guards are a little bit worse than those of other positions. in other words guys like rondo, paul, dwill or westbrook have quite “weak” defensive numbers compared to other positions because of guys like rondo, paul, dwill or westbrook as it is almost impossible to stay in front of them. even if they are fast and good as hell themselves. but irving is clearly even below these standards.

    all the other parts of his game: totally aggree with all of you, there he is above all expectations and ahead of his schedule. he would clearly have better numbers with better teammates around him. exposing another “flaw”: he aint a kidd / nash type of pg who instantly makes his teammates better. i think he still needs some time / a couple of seasons to develop into this. but we will see, maybe im wrong.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i don’t see how Irving will be a better NBA player than any of the 3 guys behind him. statistics aren’t everything. he won’t affect games how those guys do.

  • Caboose

    If the statistically worst defender is ranked this high…that must mean….he’s the statistically best offensive player?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    that is totally nuts. Rod Strickland was so much better than Cassell it’s not even close.

  • shutup

    Makes sense.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    I don’t think he will be significantly worse than those guys to the point where this ranking will look silly.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Not every PG has to be a Kidd/Nash type in order to make their teammates better. There are more ways than one to be a great PG now. He could be a mixture of the Kidd/Nash type and the Rose/Westbrook type and that would be perfect. Or he could go the Paul/Williams route and do everything extremely well.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Nothing to prove? He has quite a bit to prove.

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