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Wednesday, December 16th, 2009 at 12:59 pm  |  104 responses

On WNBA Progress

Offering a different point of view.

by Ben York

It’s no secret that popular ESPN.com columnist Bill Simmons isn’t a WNBA fan or supporter; he’s made a cognizant point to criticize the league over and over again throughout the years. This should come as a surprise to no one.

In a recent column by Simmons, he talks about the lack of “sports-hate” guys that he currently has to choose from. The players he used to have so much fun hating (Peyton Manning, Alex Rodriguez, Kobe Bryant) have all proved him wrong by winning championships or turning out to be less-hateable than he originally thought. He says that his sports-hate tank is “running on empty” and is searching for things to fill this gap. Now, I don’t want anyone to lose any sleep for Bill’s sake – he’ll always have the WNBA as a loyal vehicle of hate.

In that very article, Simmons (amazingly) doesn’t mention hating the WNBA in a general sense; it’s the commercials he dislikes so much.

Seriously.

Simmons joyfully hates WNBA commercials because, by viewing them, he believes the WNBA is being shoved down his throat. His hatred for the league runs so deep that he has a physical, allergic reaction and breaks out in hives every time a short 30-second commercial promoting the WNBA airs. Admittedly, I can’t confirm the hives but since it clearly pains him so much physically to simply avert his eyes or change the channel, I think it’s probably a safe assumption. Simmons, apparently, thinks WNBA commercials contain some sort of subliminal message in their broadcasting frequency that would force him to write something positive regarding the league; and since Simmons would rather gouge his own eyes out than give the WNBA props, I can see why he wouldn’t want to be subjected to 30 seconds of this sheer terror.

The issue here isn’t that Simmons dislikes WNBA commercials, it’s that he’s so smug about it. In a 2005 article, Simmons ripped the WNBA in a 2,500 word diatribe of hostility, pleading to “end the ongoing charade that this is a mainstream sport” and believes “if not for corporate nepotism, the WNBA would have pulled a WUSA and disappeared years ago.” In the same article, he compares the forceful advertising and promotion of the WNBA to a gun being held to his head. Doing so, Simmons believes “it makes me [Simmons] (and many others) root against the league a little more.”

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again — it’s absolutely your own individual choice to dislike the WNBA. There isn’t anything inherently wrong with that. But it’s another thing to write an entire article about how horrific a league it is, that it has been given countless chances to succeed, how it’s unwatchable, and why it isn’t worthy of mainstream attention…then begin to profess how you’d want your own daughter to grow up and dream about playing basketball professionally in America someday – Simmons does both.

This, my friends, is the definition of hypocrisy.

The problem with Simmons is that he thinks he is coming off as fair and balanced by using false analogies to bash the WNBA, as if both leagues (WNBA and NBA) have been given equally fair chances and started from the exact same spot in our culture. He believes he is ‘telling it like it is’ from a “guys-guy” perspective while throwing out pop culture references in an attempt to make his thesis and arguments correlate with each other. Quite simply, there are hundreds of years of history that Simmons continually ignores when speaking about the WNBA and it’s (perceived) lack of progress. He conveniently forgets that it wasn’t even 100 years ago that women were first allowed to vote. Or that less than 50 years ago John F. Kennedy established the President’s Commission on the Status of Women which found substantial discrimination of women in the workplace leading to the Equal Pay Act in 1963. Or that, astonishingly, just over 30 years ago the first marital rape law came into effect. Thus, here’s some correlation with actual causation, the WNBA might take longer to develop and need a bit more support. Is this really a surprise? Instead of condemning it, why not believe in the cause and help it flourish? Instead, he dreams of its demise. In Simmons mind, the hundreds of years of women being unjustly and unfairly labeled as inferior, matters not. Way to do that “thorough” research you’re known for, Bill.

Simmons, apparently, thinks that a decade or so is ample time for a brand new professional sports league to justify itself. In his 2005 article, Simmons writes…

“As for the casual fans, the Donna Orenders of the world maintain that they need more time to “come around.” Come around? Should we ignore the complete lack of progress in nine years? How far does this “come around” deadline extend to? 2010? 2020? Let’s pick a year. Give us a firm deadline. In the mean time, attendance figures and ratings keep dropping, and the timeline for us to “come around” keeps shifting. And so they keep running WNBA ads during the NBA Finals, keep flying WNBA players to NBA All-Star Weekend … they even hijacked “NBA Hardwood Classics” on NBA TV last week (which almost caused me to break my TiVo in 30 pieces).”

As is his usual charade of comparing apples to oranges, he cited the defunct XFL as an example of a similar failed league. Simmons said the only reason the WNBA hasn’t folded in a similar way is because NBA Commissioner David Stern is the WNBA’s “sugar daddy”; that Stern has an indelible desire to (gasp) show commercials promoting the WNBA! My goodness, how could he! You’re telling me he believes in the WNBA and isn’t afraid to show it? Gosh – if only Bill could turn his head 45 degrees and look in another direction when these advertisements air. Simmons believes Stern is pushing the WNBA on society like “an overboard mom pushing broccoli on her kids” and doesn’t see the point in doing so. Yet, again, Simmons wants a professional league that his daughter can play in.

He also stated that the WNBA should “accept it’s place in the Sports Fans Pecking Order.” Have we not done that? No one expects the WNBA to be as popular as the NBA, or make as much money, this early in it’s existence. What fans and followers do want, however, is an end to the conscious bashing and denouncing of the league — and to stop going out of their way to undermine it. Yes, it is still leaps and bounds below where the NBA is, but there is no denying it is in the midst of a transformation. Things like this happen in a progression. Basketball in the 50s and 60s is vastly different to where it is today, and the evolution of the game is what makes it so appealing. The WNBA is going through a similar process and it’s evident with the abundance of talent in the league today. Don’t believe me? Ask me about the 2009 WNBA season.

I received an email today that, perhaps, started me on the course of this article. It was from someone I don’t know and haven’t spoken or emailed with before. In it, the person asked, “Why don’t you just accept where the WNBA is? It will never be the NBA. And yes, the women are so much more inferior to men it’s not even funny.” Well, I can’t do that. Rather, I choose not to do that. I guess I’m choosing to stand up for these ladies and am more than happy to take the heat (still amazed that I even have to) while doing so. I don’t care if you don’t like the WNBA, but don’t pretend to sit on a soapbox or pedestal and berate these ladies after how far they’ve come. Guess what, Bill? I’ll dish it right back every time.

So, Mr. Simmons, it hasn’t exactly been an easy ride toward getting the WNBA established — and it’s come a long way since the 90s. Though, you’d know that had you done simple research regarding the evolution of women’s rights. Still, I’m so sorry you have to suffer through those terrible, uplifting WNBA commercials as I cannot imagine the agony you feel when lifting a finger to press the mute button or the up/down arrow.

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  • Joe

    Excellent article!….I love how people who are WNBA “haters” use the excuse of the game being “unwatchable” and “not good” after having watching only 1 or 2 WNBA games since 97′……….. Because thats like someone caliming the NBA is horrible after only having seen the CAVS(pre-LBJ) versus the Olowakandi-led Clippers back in the day, and that person stops watching the NBA altogether, and despite everyone else around them talkin about all of the new young talent (LBJ, Dwade, Melo, CP3) they refuse to watch and continue to hate, based off of the only NBA game they’ve watched (olowakandie CLIPPERS vs. Dmiles-led CAVS)

  • http://www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    Doesnt the fact that hes right about Stern keeping the WNBA afloat render any arguments about it being a worthwhile product moot?

  • Joe

    Also, on a recent blog on another website, about the chances of a women playing in the NBA, I stated that if there was going to be a women who played in the NBA,the only player that could possibly “compete for a roster spot” (not necessarily get in the rotation and get big minutes) in my opinion would be Deanna Nolan. But as i was getting bombarded from every angle as to why a woman would never play or get on a WNBA player, it donned on me that nobody knew who i was talking about…..because people kept giving the example of Candace Parker being 6’3″ and how thats a guard pos. in the NBA, and how she was not quick enough, they gave me the example of Diani Taurasi, and how she was tall or strong enough, and how neither of them posess half as much athleticism as guys…….It was just sad, because nobody knew who i was talking about and they had no idea (exaggeration) about female hoopers in general, because a couple of people were trying to make the case, that the women would not be able to handle the ball, because they would be using a bigger ball and not a womens ball……..thats when i knew i had to leave the blog, because being a hooper myself, i know and have grown up around some good female hoopers, I felt offended. Most female hoopers grow up using a guys ball anyway, and it isn’t until high school or college that they switch to a smaller sized ball……..(sorry, just had to rant a little bit)

  • http://slamonline.com Stephen Litel

    Yes, Ben…great article.

    The WNBA is still a work in progress, no doubt. After all, teams that won multiple championships are folding and relocating. The league needs to work on finding it’s own footing before truly trying to push it towards a mainstream sport because, in all likelihood, it would NEVER become one.

    However, as a niche sport, it has many things to offer those who find enjoyment from the league. That’s a wonderful thing and, maybe someday down the line, the league can promote to a wider base of viewers, but as of now, it’s doing about as well as it can…especially in this economy. People aren’t going to spend their money on something they don’t fully believe in. The little money coming in for the WNBA is coming from the fans who do believe.

    As someone who is a great follower and believer in the league, I’m also a realist…and that means understanding that the exponential growth that the league wants each year isn’t going to come at that rate. Some years, they’ll add a few thousand fans…others years, none.

    Personally, I believe that the league itself knows it’s place in the pecking order of the sporting world. I believe it’s die-hard WNBA fans who don’t…and those are my people. How many fans out there love the WNBA, but cannot stand the NBA? There are a lot and that’s their choice. However, those same fans cannot comprehend when other people love the NBA, but cannot stand the WNBA.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ben York

    @Myles Brown – That’s sort of what I’m arguing. It is going to need some help to succeed based on the previous few hundred years in our culture. Nothing wrong with that. I think the progress it has made in 13 years is remarkable because of this.

  • Joe

    sorry, in my second post, instead of “get on a WNBA player”…….it should be “get on an NBA roster”

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ben York

    @Stephen Litel – Thanks, Stephen. I agree, the beauty of it is that it will evolve and there are enough people who believe in it that will help it thrive. As Donna has told us, it will just take time – and I very much believe that.

  • j-dizub

    “False analogies?” You’ve got to be kidding me. What the hell does the “Equal Pay Act” have to do with basketball? Simmons is right. The WNBA has had more than enough time to establish itself as a profitable league, and it has failed. End of discussion.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    And thats what bothers me, as it does many others. How can WNBA fans have the audacity to sh*t on a league that is literally keeping them in business? Its like if people said “Nike sucks, their shoes are overpriced and their designs are lazy. Id rather support a well run company like Converse…”

  • http://www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    Hi Stephen.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ben York

    @Joe – Great stuff. Send me an email with the name of your blog.

  • j-dizub

    David Stern needs to pull the plug on the WNBA and devote those monies to the D-League, which unlike the WNBA, possesses real earning potential. Word.

  • http://slamonline.com Stephen Litel

    Hi Myles…

    Loved your comments on here. Although I am obviously huge on the WNBA, I agree with you.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ben York

    @Myles Brown – Let me clarify – I’m not sh*tting on the NBA, not by a long shot. And I don’t think the majority of W fans are. I think it’s just a respect factor. There is no denying that the W gets sh*t on, right? From fans, journalists, etc. I’m saying that I simply don’t understand others perpetual need to do so.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    And I dont think that cultural conditioning has as much to do with it as style of play and the game theyre playing. Female tennis players may not be as athletic as their male counterparts, but they play under the same rules and may be more popular. The appeal of the NBA-fan of basketball or not-is in watching the worlds greatest athletes. Only fans of basketball watch the WNBA, because theyre not going to see any feats of athleticism.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    As Stephen alluded to, I think the most fervent fans are sh*tting on the NBA. “They dont try hard, its too expensive, regular season deosnt matter, blah, blah, blah…” Ive heard and read it firsthand from WNBA fans time and again, which lessens my desire to support an inferior product with every mention.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ben York

    @Myles Brown – That’s fair, I see your point. But there is a respect for female tennis players that seemingly isn’t there for the WNBA, no?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ben York

    @Myles Brown – I see where you’re coming from, but I think they are naturally defensive based on public opinion and outrage from people like Simmons. All they are trying to do is play basketball, and there is an effort to denounce that from some people.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ben York

    Also, it’s not just women’s basketball that Simmons seemingly can’t stand…

  • http://www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    I think that has to do with the aforementioned fact that a another league is keeping them is business. And I can only speak for the local team here in Minnesota, which Stephen certainly is more familiar with, but Ive been in the area when Lynx games let out and there is a large contingent of…um, very masculine looking women coming out of that building. That coupled with the NBA hating, surely plays some role in the perception of that league and it’s lack of respect, deserved or not.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ben York

    @Myles Brown – I think that image is projected onto the WNBA, you’re right. Still, it shouldn’t take away from their play on the court. If we’re honest, it was never truly accepted. Only lately, have we seen somewhat of a shift.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    the wnba needs to make money, period. first, stop giving away tickets. no one is going to buy tickets when they are just given away. have promotional tours, selling discounted tickets, but not free. some other ideas, maybe a juwanna mann to come in a drop 35 a game

  • http://www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    It shouldnt take away from their play on the court any more than the NBA’s image problems should affect their on court product. But in both cases, it does.

  • Michael Scorn

    @Ben – If ESPN has no problem with what Bill Simmons writes then there is nothing you can really do about it other than hate him back and continue talking about him and his daughter. Way to show more class.

  • http://www.asternwarning.com mookie

    Let me start by saying that I am not a regular WNBA watcher, mainly because it is difficult for me to see it in my part of the world.

    Negatives to the WNBA as far as I see it:

    We know that another league is keeping the WNBA in business — that is the prerogative of the individual owners to continue doing.

    We know that the players are not as athletic as the NBA players. So what? It’s another sport, we accept that. People still enjoy netball in many countries of the world (outside of the USA) and that is a not dissimilar women-friendly sport.

    We know that the league is new. The NBA and its predecessors could not have been considered as “mainstream, fan favourite, cash-producing” in its early days… it was growing. The WNBA is doing the same.

    It’ll likely never be as popular as the NBA, but neither will professional tiddlywinks. If they start putting ads out there for the pro tiddlywinks circuit, I’m free to turn my head in another direction or daydream — in the same way as I do when an advert about Eddie House’s son comes on TV during NBA League Pass broadcasts.

    In short, Bill needs to cut the hatred in a semi-veiled attempt to draw more readers through false controversy. To say that the WNBA should not get attention is to say that something he does not like does not mean anyone else may like it.

    Plus, any commercial with Candace Parker on it, has my vote… ;)

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ben York

    @Myles Brown – Exactly. My issue isn’t with the NBA; I write about it and love it. My issue is the lack of respect for the WNBA. Again, there are literally dozens of reasons why this is and it’s a combination of all of them that has got us here.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ben York

    @mookie – Thanks for reading, Mookie. And I agree whole-heartedly.

  • j-dizub

    I’m sorry, I just read this a second time — and it makes ZERO sense. Your argument is asinine.

  • Michael Scorn

    @Ben – You misunderstood Bill. I read the same article. He is saying that the NBA built themselves up. I’m sure the NBA would have been just as annoying if a bigger business like professional baseball gave up airtime or promotion space to force it on the fans who were not interested and then have writers wonder why nobody likes the NBA when baseball was the favorite.
    Growing pains hurt for a business just starting out. Everyone goes through it. It is how you conduct yourdelf during the process that matters. Whining and complaining about being at the very state the WNBA should be in it’s early life is not being professional. I guess that is one of the lessons the young WNBA and its supporters still have to learn.

  • Joe

    @ Ben : Hey here is the link….it’s on the Celtics yahoo website…there are a lot of comments, and my screen name for that blog is “fanofgreen” my first comment is on page 6 midway down. heres the link if you want to take a look at the many comments: http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=33460.0

  • Michael Scorn

    @Ben – Simmons did not contracdict himself. He hates the WNBA now. He may not hate the WNBA a decade from now when his daughter is actually old enough to play and the WNBA is a higher quality product.
    It would be like me hating the internet because it was so slow in the 1996, but I do not hate it now because it is a much better product because of its speed. That’s an interesting comcept. Speed makes things more entertaining. I wonder how that can be related to the NBA/WNBA argument.

  • L.M. Patterson

    Bill Simmons’ article was in 2005. It’s almost 2010! It appears, during this time, that the “charade to make the WNBA a mainstream sport” is over. We no longer see any WNBA highlights on SportsCenter, unless it’s a short segment at the very end. We no longer get local broadcasts, except occasionally, and you have to go online at WNBA.com to see games. Newscasts and newspapers don’t give leading story coverage anymore, except deep in the playoffs, and then it’s still usually not the front page centerpiece. We are no longer bombarded with WNBA ads during NBA telecasts, though there still are a few. And with that, the constant bashing of the league is also over. Seriously, who today is still bashing the WNBA? No one I know bashes the league. (Even Debbie Schlussel hasn’t said a word about the WNBA for years.) People just ignore it. The WNBA is no longer being shoved down our throats, and it’s not a coincidence that people no longer bash it. (There was definitely a time when the WNBA was shoved down our throats.) Frankly, Ben, this playing-the-victim card is NOT a good way to try to draw in new fans. It may even repel some people away.

  • riggs

    the nba wasnt that popular when it first started…

  • j-dizub

    I agree with L.M. Patterson. I was indifferent to the WNBA before reading this article. Now I loathe it.

  • Chris

    If the WNBA folds, it may be a sad thing for WNBA fans, but it certainly will not be a sad thing for womankind. There has not been a better time to be a woman. College enrollment and graduation is dominated by women. Women are breaking into every field. We almost had a woman president and vice president (from different parties, too) and that gap will become closer every election from now until one breaks through. The Equal Pay Act you brought up is ridiculous. Equal Pay means equal pay for the same work. That means NBA players vs. other NBA players and WNBA players vs. WNBA players. NBA and WNBA players do no do the same work (except in the way a reporter from the Podunk Weekly does the same work as one from the New York Times). There are so rules against a woman playing the NBA and competing for the same size contract as established players. The average earning are skewed because many men have been at their positions longer and thus make more. The difference in pay between a freshly broken in woman and a freshly broken in man is negligible. In fact, my mother, who works payroll for Kaiser, says young women are getting raises at a noticibly greater clip than young men. Continued…

  • Michael Scorn

    @Ben – I don’t understand how valid your point is about women’s rights affecting the WNBA.
    The NBA seems to be doing very well despite the lack of rights that African-American men had no less than 100 years ago.
    Plus, the WNBA is not a women only league from the commissioner to team owners, coaches, and other employees responsible for the success of the WNBA.

  • Chris

    Part 2: There are no shortage of role models for young girls. I have taken my daughters to countless WUSA and WPS games. I took them to a Hillary Clinton campaign speech a few years back. My boss and my company’s CEO are women, as well as my alma mater’s athletic director. My optomitrist and dentist (who also happens to be my wife) are also women. Both my state’s Senate reps are women. My daughters’ soccer coach and softball assistant coach are women. I get tired of people saying the WNBA folding would be bad for women. I get more tired of people saying women have an obligation to support the WNBA. My wife and daughters loved going to Lakers games and were bored to tears at Sparks games. We stopped going to Sparks games after 2006 but will continue going to Lakers and Dodgers occasionally Cal football games. I thought the whole point of the women’s liberation movement was to liberate women, meaning women can choose what they want to do without feeling bad about it. If women are choosing to not watch the WNBA, who are you to criticize them for it? I am Chinese descent, and no one makes me feel guilty for preferring steaks and burgers. It’s wrong for you to try to make my wife and daughters feel bad for liking the Lakers and not the Sparks. They have plenty of role models elsewhere, thanks. Women have no obligation to support something they have no interest in, and saying otherwise would be trampling on women’s rights.

  • http://www.bf3ars.blogspot.com bfears

    dope article ur my new favorite journalist. bill is a hater point blank period

  • Michael Scorn

    @ Chris – Well said. (applause) End of debate. I wish I could have came up with that, but I am not a father with the same real experiences you just mentioned, just like Ben is not a woman in the WNBA.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    The WNBA vs. NBA debate is interesting.
    The dynamic introduced here, that past discrimination requires current assistance, is a touchy one in our society. Affirmative action anyone?
    As long as the majority of Americans believe this country is a meritocracy housed in a “just world” these problems will persist.
    I don’t watch the WNBA, I tried early on, but it doesn’t really interest me now. I respect that they have a league and as long as the NBA wants to give them money, I say go for it. Their commericals don’t bother me either. But, like Myles, I do get pissed when I hear about how the WNBA is the last bastion of fundamental basketball. Those people irk me. They irk me very much.

  • Greg

    Why don’t you debate Simmons face to face instead of sniping at him from the comfort of your blog. You are afraid he will put you in your place. If the W were a real business it would have expired ten years ago. Would anyone buy stock in this league if it were a traded comodity? This is the true test. If I could make money I certainly would not be ” mysoginistic”. I have a intestst in profet. Bad products lose money. The hardest job in the US is selling ads during wnba games.
    Stop pretending we are also experiencing evolution issues. Women have evolved like men. They just suck at hoops compared to men.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ben York

    @Michael Scorn – I put WNBA in the title this time so you wouldn’t get confused.

  • Michael Scorn

    @Ben – No you didn’t. But, that argument was days ago. I’m interested in this WNBA circus now.

  • Michael Scorn

    I wonder how Ben’s friends talk about him behind his back.
    Friend 1- “Hey, do you want to go see what Ben is up to today.”
    Friend 2- “I do, but I’m afraid he is gonna try to get us to watch the WNBA with him, and then we will have to come up with some lame excuse why we can’t.
    Friend 1- “Let’s rehearse our exit plan.”

  • pilight

    @ Michael Scorn – If Ben wants to fight a losing cause, who are you to make fun of him for that? Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FpzQiERt8I. Is it really that hard to figure out why the NBA is so much more popular than the WNBA? And there are still people, like Ben York, who insist there are WNBA players who can play in the NBA. (Those are the type of people get the WNBA ridiculed.) It’s like: Hmm. I’m a woman…I can play in the NBA, where even if I’m the last person on the bench, I’m still adored by millions, watched by millions, I can make millions, I still travel charter everywhere, stay at the fanciest hotels, get my own room, get dined by the finest chefs, housed at the best rental properties, have a profile on ESPN.com, don’t have to worry about my employer folding … Nah, I’ll just stay in the WNBA, where even if I’m a star, I still fly commercial, stay at middle-of-the-road hotels and still might have to share a room, get ignored by the mainstream press and general public, play during a season in which no one is thinking about basketball, have to leave the country during the winter months to play overseas just to be able to make more than a teacher, and worry daily about the health of my employer as they keep cutting talent jobs (coaches and players) as well as support staff. Really???

  • caune

    I think Ben York’s over-the-top arguments might be doing more to repel potential fans and turning non-fans to haters than attracting new fans. Bill Simmons is only the unquestionably most popular writer (now that Peter Gammons has left ESPN) for by far the most profitable and well-known sports media company in the history of the planet. I’m not sure ragging on him is really going to endear you to many potential WNBA fans. And bringing up the Equal Pay Act in an NBA-WNBA argument? Really?

  • Simmons hate ladies

    Simmons: What a duche

  • http://dsjfhklf.com Jukai

    Does it upset people to think that women barely had half the rights men not even fifty years ago? Is that why Ben bringing it up has offended you all so much? Cause, really, that’s the only reason I can see that would cause all of you to be in such a ruckus. If that ‘turns you guys off,’ I’m assuming 95% of you already hated the WNBA.
    Look…
    I can’t watch the WNBA. Really, I do. That whole ‘fundamental’ thing is garbage, as many of them, especially shooting wise, show very little fundamentals. Players will often take quick shots and layups are lazy. Defense is many times haphazard and foul happy. As of right now, the product isn’t terribly good.
    But giving the league only ten years is insane.
    More and more women talents are cropping up, and the reason is because now basketball means women can have a FUTURE. They can use it to make money, to start a career. Comparing it to the XFL is insane: it was not going to increase the number of football players coming out of college. The WNBA’s existence has notably increased the talent level of college basketball, look at this year alone.
    So, for chrissakes, don’t hate on the league. it’s getting better.

  • Michael Scorn

    @Caune – You see, this is a common method of gaining popularity that happens in music all the time. An up and coming nobody picks a feud with an established peer in their field hoping to feed of of the other’s already gained audience.
    I visited Ben’s twitter and he is really expecting Simmon’s to respond. Of course when Simmon’s does not respond, Ben is going to claim victory in that feud.
    I can twitter that I challenge Kobe to a game of one-on-one, but if he doesn’t respond, that means he is scared?

  • Michael Scorn

    @Jukai – No one here is hating on the WNBA. The WNBA is what it is. Most people comprehend and except that. But Ben tries to make it out to be something that it is not. He works hard to unveil the value that no one else seems to see.
    The problem with bringing up the women’s rights is that it itself was a major important issue whereas “why people don’t choose to be entertained by the WNBA” is not a major world issue, it isn’t even a major american issue.

  • Michael Scorn

    @pilight = That is a great video. Great find. Thanks.

  • Michael Scorn

    Right as I submitted that comment. Kobe just nailed a turn around 18-foot jumper at the buzzer for the 1 point win against the Bucks. I love this game!

  • Michael Scorn

    With a broken index finger on his shooing hand too!

  • http://www.swishappeal.com/ QMcCall3

    @Jukai – people hate on the WNBA because of what they perceive is WNBA fans’ jabs at the NBA and their NBA-hating. Of course women are talented, but they are not near the same league as people’s beloved NBA. You talked about the fundamentals and defense, and AllenP talked about the fundamentals too. When WNBA fans say their league is fundamental, they almost always thrown in that the NBA is all about one-on-one and showboat dunking. When they say the WNBA play defense and with passion, they almost always add in “unlike the NBA.” There are other untrue stereotypes of the NBA that WNBA fans like to poke at. In reality, the NBA is very fundamentally sound and play outstanding team basketball, players do play with a lot of passion and defense is so much better than WNBA defenders can dream of. The WNBA fans’ hating of the NBA breeds WNBA hating, which breeds more NBA hating, which breeds for WNBA hating. Of course, the NBA will win out every time because it is so much more popular, so it would be in the WNBA fans’ best interest to end the vicious cycle, because for the sake of survival, they cannot afford to lose any fans.

  • JRae

    @Pilight – No WNBA player could play in the NBA. No WNBA player is even close. Even the worst player on the worst NBA team is head-and-shoulders better than the best players in the WNBA. To say a WNBA player could play in the NBA is beyond ignorant. Check out what Bill Laimbeer, who has coached in both leagues, says about it: http://www.startribune.com/sports/wolves/79092977.html?elr=KArksi8cyaiUo8cyaiUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUr

  • SuziQ

    I agree the comments about defense in the NBA is garbage. People love to see the posterizing dunks. But why do guys continue to get posterized? Because they’re trying to contest or block a shot. And they try to because they can and often do. The defense in the NBA is world class, but they are also so talented offensively, they only need a split second seperation to beat a defender. In fact, they are so skillful, many times players don’t even need to beat a defender to score. Check out this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TJW8dPpIrM. Blocks like that happen in the NBA all the time. Kris Humphries is not even an elite defender. If someone as quick and tall and long as athletic as Anthony Randolph can’t get that shot over an average defender, how is anyone in the WNBA going to get a shot off on an above-average NBA defender?

  • Ace

    These haters are good for the sport b/c it brings attention to the WNBA b/c it makes some people say well let me see what all the hate is about. It will make some either agree with the haters or disagree. @Michael Scorn and others like him keep commenting b/c it means that you have an interest in the WNBA even if it is just to talk sh*t about it…..the more interest the better. The WNBA does have their own moments like that as well with the game winning shots, but you wouldn’t know that b/c you don’t watch enough of it.

  • pilight

    I’m impressed that someone is going to the trouble of impersonating me…

  • http://dsjfhklf.com Jukai

    Michael Scorn: Yeah, you’re right, because it’s not like parents are still telling their daughters to play with dolls and flowers instead of letting them ball or anything like that.
    Like it or not, gender roles play a huge part the lack of talent in the WNBA: a girl who could have incredible talent is convinced basketball is a dude’s sport, and she shouldn’t bother playing it. If the WINBA continues to become a viable option, as it looks like it is, then more young girls will be convinced to continue their basketball training as a viable option for their career. This will undoubtedly raise the skill level of the game.
    But until we get rid of this gender role that women ballers shouldn’t bother, then it’ll be a slow as hell process. That’s why all that woman’s right information was brought up in the first place. Try reading it slower and use deductive logic next time.

  • http://dsjfhklf.com Jukai

    I mean, sh*t, I don’t even watch the sport but it’s haters like you that make me defend it tooth and nail.

  • Michael Scorn

    @Ace – I still have no interest in the WNBA. I just like to offer input when Ben wonders why I don’t watch it. He had a question. I answered it. He didn’t like the answer, so I gave another. He didn’t like that one either…..
    I love the tired story of haters actually helping. More people hate Kobe than the whole WNBA combined. I’m sure hundreds of people care to actually hate the WNBA whereas millions hate Kobe.

  • http://nba.com Reflex

    I thought everyone was aware that Simmons was a jerk, why would anyone take his opinions remotely seriously?
    On the WNBA, I don’t watch masses of it (don’t live in the US) but I caught some of last season’s final’s and it was very enjoyable. It’s clearly still a work in progress but if people gave it room to breathe rather than trying to shoot it down at every given opportunity. On a side, I equally excited to see how Griner fares in the WNBA as I am in seeing Wall do his thing in the NBA

  • Michael Scorn

    I would be willing to let the WNBA breathe and step back on the hate if the supporters let the WNBA breathe and step back from their over promotion as well. If the WNBA is so great, let the game speak for itself.

  • caune

    The post above attributed to me is not me. The clue…I loathe Bill Simmons attitude toward women and you’d have to boil me in oil to get me to post something nice about him, LOL

    I say right on Ben! The league needs to keep pusing for respect because respect isn’t just given it’s earned.

    And just an FYI, the post attributed to SuziQ above is so not her. Honestly imposter person, if you want to impersonate all of us WNBA fans you should at least post things we might agree with, LOL

  • caune

    Michael, you speak of over promotion of the WNBA…have you also complained about overpromotion of Viagra and Nike ’cause dam they are shoving that shyt down your throat everytime you turn on ESPN.

    So let Viagra and Nike and Old Spice and Fathead speak for themselves…let them ALL step back and stand on their own merits!
    NO MORE COMMERCIALS, ROFL…….posted by the REAL caune

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/category/blogs/year-round-hoops/ Stephen Litel

    Here’s a question for everyone. Why isn’t there the same level of bashing, disdain, etc for women’s college basketball as there seems to be for the WNBA? Women’s college ball seems much more respected and appreciated.

    I’m throwing that out there, just to see the answers brought to the table, as this conversation is fascinating to me as someone who covers both the NBA and WNBA.

  • Michael Scorn

    @Stephen Litel – Well, if this is you, I’m not sure who I’m talking to anymore. Doesn’t really matte I guess. But to answer the question. Women’s college basketball does not bother me at all. I will watch a good game for a few minutes here and there. I think Women’s College Basketball is allowed to sell itself without the over the top whiners to over support it like the ones for the WNBA. Women’s College basketball is just a respectable organization where the WNBA is hard to repsect. That’s the thing about repect. You either have it or you don’t.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/category/blogs/year-round-hoops/ Stephen Litel

    Not sure what you mean by the comment about me, Michael, since I’m just asking a question to understand a little more. Thanks for the response to the question though, as it definitely makes sense.

  • Michael Scorn

    @Stephen Litel – I was just making a comment about the imposters roaming through the comment section.

    @caune – I love the idea of no commercials.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    What I don’t understand is why people are bothered that the NBA gives the WNBA money or that ESPN shows there commericals.
    It’s not your money. You can always change the channel.
    It’s really weird that people are bothered. It’s also weird that so many of y’all think “businesses should stand on their own.”
    Clearly most of the readers of SLAM have very little understanding of the tax laws and antitrust laws in this country. I mean, do y’all not realize that NBA is buttressed by publicly funded stadiums? That it receives local tax breaks? That it has an anti-trust exemption that allows it to crush all competing leagues?
    I swear the meritocracy myth makes many, MANY people stupid. It’s a damn shame.

  • Greg

    There are only about 6 womens ncaa bball programs that are profitable or break even. It is absolutely the biggest drain on a division 1A budget. People don’t pay attention to it either. There is nothing worse than seeing a score on the espn ticker and then noticing it women’s hoops. These girls are entitled to get scholarships but are not entitled to play professionally when they cannot generate revenues to cover expenses.

  • Michael Scorn

    @Allenp – I’m very sure the common WNBA fan does not know about the anti-trust laws either. So, don’t just call people who don’t watch the NBA stupid.

  • markij

    the alamost knee jerk reaction of negativity towards the WNBA has always amused me. It’s funny how they troll videos,sites and articles on the league to diss on the league. That says more about them than it says anything about the league and it’s players. Thirteen years into the NBA players were flying commercial…. same as the WNBA. Players were not siging mulit-million contracts like they do today…. same as the WNBA. Yet people use these arguments against the league as a sign of failure.
    they talk about commericals as stuffing it down their throats all the while understanding that promotion is the life blood of any new venture. You have to get your produvt out there to the masses. they might not like it but it’s got to be done.

  • http://mlb.com Mike

    @Ben York: I just read through every comment (thanks for wasting half-hour of my lunch break lol) and there is very little “hating” of the WNBA. There is a lot of indifference and disagreement, and there is a lot of suggestions on how to make the WNBA more popular, which you seem to ignore and label as “hating” because you don’t agree with the method. What’s more immature — that or saying something like “I don’t like the WNBA and here’s why”? Ben, these commentators don’t care if the WNBA folds, but you do, so it’s in your interest to listen to suggestions from people when they give you reasons why they or their friends don’t like the league. And labeling them as haters won’t do anything to bring in new fans, which is what you badly need. Remember, as some other poster noted, the WNBA was very popular at first and being annointed as the next major sport. But it has gone backwards every year. You can keep fooling yourself by proclaiming “WNBA progress” or you can try to figure out why the league is bleeding fans and what you can do to stop it. If people are giving you reasons why they are turned off by the WNBA, maybe listening would be a smarter way to go than name-calling.

  • http://mlb.com Mike

    @markj: Of course, the NBA was flying commercial after 13 years. But you obviously didn’t get the point of the comment. The point is, it is much, much better to be part of the NBA today than the WNBA. And it’d be crazy for someone that’s good enough for the NBA to stay in the WNBA. And if someone is good enough to make the NBA, she would be in the NBA. Problem is, there is no one in the WNBA who can play in the NBA. But our author keeps proclaiming that Parker and Taurasi could play in the NBA (and contribute) if they wanted to, and he keeps insisting that despite the obvious facts. And the fact Ben keeps harping on that really, really hurts the credibility of his work, because it shows he’s talking out of his you-know-what. The comment was a sarcastic way to try to get Ben to knock it off, because he’s not helping his own cause or the WNBA by saying garbage like that.

  • Ace

    @Michael Scorn – if you had no interest at all in the WNBA you wouldn’t have taken the time to comment about it at all. Was there a point to comparing the WNBA to Kobe? More people know about Kobe than the WNBA, thank you captain obvious. To suggest that the WNBA should stop promoting is insane b/c the WNBA is not Ferrari.

  • Michael Scorn

    All I am saying is, that if the WNBA and it’s commercials and writers were better and more entertaining, I would like it more. Is that so wrong. Clearly the WNBA realizes this, othrwise tey wouldn’t clear a path during an all-star game so the one girl, who is able, can dunk the ball. We want more spectacular plays to marvel at, they know this, try to do it more, but are unable to keep the content fresh and plentiful. it all comes down to content.

  • Michael Scorn

    This is the most common complaint about women who want to have everything the men have. They just want the positive things the men have, but none of the negative.
    Why do people think that the WNBA is above getting made fun of. Anything that is somewhat famous or at least on TV will always be subject to ridicule. Many of the complaints are irrational and not based of facts. This is how it is for everything. the basketbawlful website is 100% NBA bashing, but it is funny. People who like the NBA are amuzed by it. But once someone says one thing negative or as a joke about the WNBA, all the defenders get all uptight. If you want to be like every successful thing, you have to go through what they go through. How fair would it be for the WNBA to get to the pinnacle without any trials or nay sayers. Isn’t that would people like most; proving others wrong?

  • Ace

    “the basketbawlful website is 100% NBA bashing” What website are you talking about? If you go to websites that support and like to talk about the WNBA and not bash it, you will see that the fans joke and say negative stuff all the time. The reason why they don’t get “uptight” about it is b/c it’s usually about stuff like oh she’s a dirty player, so and so gets special treatment, she sucks, why is she starting?, got vodka?, etc, etc. If it’s comments about how women are inferior to men, they should lower the rim, or get rid of it, etc, etc, then some people will come to defend the WNBA. NBA on TNT tonight should be good.

  • Michael Scorn

    @Ace – That makes sense. So there are boundries on teasing the WNBA. The inferior part just crosses the line. It would be like people saying that the NBA is full of thugs and overlook the NBA Cares program or the other positive things they do.
    So rather than judging the WNBA as a whole based on stereotypes, which is out of line, treat each player, coach, and GM on a case by case basis like we do with the NBA.

  • Chris

    @Ace and Michael Scorn. Except when people say WNBA players are inferior to NBA players, it’s true. And when people say NBA players are all thugs, or they are all about one-on-one play and dunking, or they don’t play defense or with passion, it’s not true. But all of the above comments are unnecessary. And Ace: People saying they should get rid of the WNBA is definitely over the line and it’s something to get “uptight” about, people saying they should lower the rims is a legitimate discussion on how to improve the game. … continued with discussion on the rim…

  • Chris

    Part 2: I personally don’t think it’d be practical to lower the women’s rims, considering that almost all the hoops are your local gyms, parks, schools, etc., are 10 feet, and all the girls who play middle school, high school and college ball play at 10 feet. But I would be interested in seeing how the product changes (perhaps for the better?) with lower rims. After all, women are shorter on average and can’t jump nearly as high as men. And argument about raising the NBA rims are ludicrous. So everyone can dunk easily — what’s your point? Every MLB player can hit home runs easily, should they move the fences back? Every NFL quarterback can launch a ball nearly the distance of the field — should they extend the length of the field? The point of seeing these games at the highest level is watching the competition: human vs. human. Don’t forget, the defense, pitching, and secondaries are also played at the highest level in the NBA, MLB and NFL, respectively. In the NBA, MLB and NFL, if you beat the defense, then the dimensions of the playing surface don’t cause any more problems. You don’t see many blown uncontested layups in the NBA. Most missed layups are caused by someone contesting or a formidable shot blocker lurking. In the WNBA, you see many missed uncontested layups despite a smaller and softer ball, because even after a player beats her defenders, she still has to overcome the dimensions of the court — i.e. the height of the rim — and less hangtime to stablize herself to take a shot at a harder-to-reach target. In other words, oftentimes, in the NBA, MLB or NFL, we’re watching humans vs. humans, whereas in the WNBA, we’re often watching humans vs. humans + playing surface. I’m curious how the WNBA game would look like if we took out that “+ playing surface” out of the equation.

  • Ace

    @Chris WNBA players are not “inferior” to NBA players. You could say that most WNBA would not be able to beat a NBA player, but that doesn’t mean all WNBA can’t beat any NBA player. To lower the rim would be an insult to women, b/c it’s saying that you are inferior to men so we have to lower the rim for you. You do have women that can jump as high as some men, women not dunking has more to with the culture of womens basketball and not with women not being able to dunk. I do see alot of blown uncontested layups in the NBA, but maybe it’s b/c I try to watch as many games as I can. The playing surface does play a part when watching any sport male or female.
    A MLB player has a harder time hitting a softball being pitched by Finch and Cat then a baseball being thrown by the best pitchers in the world. Doesn’t mean that the MLB players are inferior to women softball players when it comes to pro softball. In the same way the MLB player thought it would be easier to hit a softball then a baseball just b/c it’s bigger didn’t make it so in reality. It would be the same with lowering the rim, b/c it would just throw them the hell off seeing as how they spend most of the year overseas playing on a 10ft rim.

  • Ace

    @Michael Scorn exactly. I like the NBA cares promos b/c it challenges the stereotype that the NBA is full of thugs like you mentioned. I wish that there was more media coverage about the good that the players do off the court.

  • Michael Scorn

    The lower rims idea is interesting and why not? The ball is smaller to accomodate women’s smaller hands. It would be great to see the confrontations above the rim. I wouldn’t consider it degrading at all because the most athletic women would still have an advantage over the less athletic women just like in the NBA. There is a traveling basketball tournament in Michigan called “Red Hacker” that is played on 9 foot rims. It is so fun to watch because it adds an ellemnet to the game that players wouldn’t be able to do on 10 feet. Those games are always exciting. One time Jason Richardson when he was in high school played in one of those. Just imagine those dunks.

  • Chris

    @Ace — WNBA players are inferior to NBA players, otherwise they’d be in the NBA. You and I and 99.999999% of the basketball-playing world is inferior to the NBA, including 99.99% of the world’s other top men’s leagues, Olympic men’s players, NCAA D-I men’s players, high school boys players and AND1 Mixtape Tour players. It doesn’t mean the WNBA is not legitimate, it just means the NBA is the best of the best of the best. To say otherwise would be discrediting the NBA. And the issue with the rim height, remember I was against lowering the rims. All I said was I’d be curious to how the game would look like if they did. And if they did, I wouldn’t take it as an insult to women. I’d take it as women are shorter than men. And more thing: I can’t remember from where, but I remember reading from several credible sports researchers that hitting a softball riseball is the hardest thing to do in sports. I believe it. Finch and Osterman are for real. Pujols couldn’t even hit them (though I’m sure, if you gave him some time, he’ll adjust and won’t look SO bad.) But lowering the rims in basketball would be equivalent to shortening the fences and bathpaths in softball. I don’t take it as an insult to women and it doesn’t mean softball is not legit. Just means men are stronger and faster, which means they cover more ground, can make longer throws, hit the ball further, etc.

  • Ace

    @Ace and Michael Scorn we can agree to disagree. I’m not a fan of women playing with a smaller ball. 99.99 is still not 100 which is my point. I would say that the NBA has some of the best. I have watched euroleague and they have amazing players. Look at Casspi he got his first start yesterday in the NBA b/c of his consistent play. I have read comments and blogs from WNBA players that do find the idea of lowering the rim to be an insult. Did you forget about all the tall female basketball players, and i’m not talking about just the ones that play in the WNBA b/c some just stay in Europe.
    I wouldn’t equate the two of a lower rim to lowering the fence. You don’t need to hit a HR to score in softball but in basketball you need the rim regardless to score. Since you don’t hear the actual WNBA players talking about wanting to lower the rim, obviously it’s not bothering them. Since it doesn’t bother them it shouldn’t bother anybody else. Instead of talking about lowering the bar for female athletes, they should be raised b/c they will meet and pass it. It’s called evolution, the womens game is getting better (will continue to get better) and without having to lower the rim, go figure. If Orlando comes back and wins, Miami should get smacked.

  • Ace

    meant @Chris and Michael Scorn

  • Michael Scorn

    I’m just saying, lower rims for more dunks would be fun to watch. But if lowering the rims would be degrading, how about some trampolines?
    Of course the WNBA players will never say they want the rims lowered. It would be embarrassing for them to ask for that, but then it wouldn’t, because it is their right to ask for lower rims if that is what they want, and who am I to tell them what to want.

  • Chris

    @Ace — Good points. I can see how suggesting lower the rim could be construed as an insult. But I also think it’s wrong to automatically say someone who suggests that is a hater. I don’t think people mean to be insulting, rather they are genuinely looking at ways to improve the game and attendance. I liken it to people asking me about my Japanese heritage. I’m Chinese (American born and raised), and a lot of Asian people get offended when white people confuse the different Asian races. I don’t get offended at all because most people who have talked about my Japanese or Korean ancestry are naive, but genuinely trying to establish camaraderie as opposed to being offensive. I think one thing we can definitely agree on: We are thankful to be Americans, where we can enjoy the best basketball and baseball (and football, though there’s not really any foreign competition) players in our solar system. The NBA may not have 100%, but the other 0.01% of the best players, like Omir Casspi and Goran Dragic (whom I’m watching right now) aspire to play here and eventually will. I don’t think Americans appreciate this enough. I was just thinking the other day. Hideo Nomo toiled around in the minors for four years to get a mop-up reliever job with the Kansas City Royals in 2008 at age 39, when he could have returned to his homeland of Japan to be a star in that league. That shows just how highly people view our sports leagues. We shell out a lot of money for our basketball, baseball and football, and we get a lot in return.

  • pilight

    @Stephen Litel, I think the reason there isn’t the disdain for women’s college basketball like the WNBA is because there isn’t the percieved disdain for men’s college basketball from WCBB fans as there is perceived disdain for the NBA from WNBA fans.

  • http://www.wnba.com/sparks/ icey23

    LOL!!! WNBA Progress. That’s an oxymoron is there ever was one!

  • Michael Scorn

    @pilight – Excellent point. Another example of that is LeBron James. As far as his basketball ability, I have absolutely nothing to complan about. But, there are those kind of annoying fans that run around yelling “Kobe sucks, all hail King James the best player in the NBA.” That makes me not like him because I have been a Kobe fan fo 14 years and to keep hearing arguments that always involve Kobe sucks/King James makes me not like LeBron.
    The same thing goes for D-Wade. When he was a rookie and didn’t have that much attention I never really paid attention until the playoffs started and I reallized, “this guy is pretty good.” Then Shaq came, the Heat won the championship, and now D-Wade is on all the commercials with all the irritating fans. Now I don’t like him.
    I think annoying fans who support your side is way more damaging that haters, because people will hate the particular player or organization only because of the annoying fans.

  • Chris

    @Ben York – if you don’t think the majority of WNBA fans are sh!tting on the NBA, then you’re either incredibly naive or just haven’t been paying attention.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/category/blogs/year-round-hoops/ Stephen Litel

    This entire conversation has been very insightful for me as someone who covers and enjoys both leagues. The comments made with thoughtful answers have helped me to understand better and I thank everyone.

  • http://www.slamonline. Ben York

    @Stephen Litel – Well said and thank you, as well, for reading/sharing your thoughts.

  • http://twitter.com/MuneravenMN MuneravenMN

    @Michael Scorn: Kobe sucks, all hail King James the best player in the NBA!

  • http://twitter.com/MuneravenMN MuneravenMN

    @Stephen Litel: Since you said the comments helped you understand better, just wondering what exactly you learned from this?

  • Michael Scorn

    @MuneravenMN – You son of a b!tch =) See how I can get the joke because I am an NBA fan. Unlike Ben who would have handled that in a whiny, take things to seriously, tone.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ben York

    @Michael Scorn – I think we started off on the wrong foot. I’m a pretty good guy once you get to know me. I noticed your user-name is a take off The Office, no? I’m a big fan of the show.

  • Michael Scorn

    @Ben York – We did start off on the wrong foot and I am sorry. It was a bad week for me and I was taking it out on you. Any fan of The Office is a friend of mine. The WNBA needs more high character supporters like you to help it succeed.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Ben York

    @Michael Scorn – No problem and no apology necessary – thank you for the kind words. “Mr. Scarn, perhaps you would be more comfortable in my private jet.”

  • http://www.nakiasanford.com kia

    Wow, this is the first time I have taken the time to read an article like this and the majority of its comments. Since There is not a player perpsective, I thought I would give my two cent..hmmmm maybe 5, this will require more. First, to the nay sayers of the job that allows me to do what I love, and stay at home for a few months to do it- we love our job, its evident we dont do it for the money. However, there is another reason our job is important, it gives little girls the chance to dream about doing something that requires them to be strong, develop leadership skills, and build self esteem. Instead using their bodies as objects on a pole or in a video, female athletes sweat and run, and compete, and prove themselves ATHLETES. PERHAPS MANY “WNBA HATERS”have a preference for what they think a “woman” should do. That is why there is such a focus on sexuality when men speak about WNBA players, if she is strong and fit, and wouldnt give you the time of day because of it, she has to be gay. oh and by the way, no one talks about how many gay men there are in sports..its hush hush, so it only matters when it comes to women’s sports..why? just to make you feel better that a women could possible by stronger and faster than you who have probably never gotten off your couch to play a sport in your life, or perhaps you did but couldnt make a team? Maybe u just dont like seeing a woman on tv doing something you cant do. The W is not trying to BE the NBA. merely carve our niche in the world of sports. I belive my 5cent are just about spent but let me close with this. I dont think its right for anyone to dump on another persons lively hood.Thats what so great about our country, if you dont like something, walk away, dont watch, don’t give it any attention. but you definitely should not knock something unless you try it, so to all you “haters” I challenge u to go to a game this summer, and if you still dont like, you have something to base your oppinion on. Its not for everyone, but as a 7 year vet, weather we are being “carried” or not, I know our fans are die hard, and I know there is a need for what we do. We give little girls a different dream. You should feel nothing but pride about that, whether you like that game or not.

  • Brittany

    The WNBA is an awesome league. It doesn’t deserve half of the nonsense that it gets. These ladies can play and that’s all that should matter.

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