Saturday, December 18th, 2010 at 4:47 pm  |  140 responses

Magic Trade for Arenas, JRich, Turkoglu

by Ryne Nelson

We knew the Magic were looking for a major shakeup and multiple reports confirmed the team was in serious trade talks this morning. Magic GM Otis Smith, however, declined to name any pieces except for Gilbert Arenas.

Well, now, we have all the details. And there’s a lot of them.

As a prelude to another trade involving Arenas, the Magic completed a six-player deal with the Suns. The Arizona Republic has the details:

The Phoenix Suns have agreed to acquire big man Marcin Gortat and swingmen Vince Carter and Mickael Pietrus from the Orlando Magic in exchange for Jason Richardson, Hedo Turkoglu and Earl Clark.

The trade, expected to be made official this afternoon, will also give Phoenix a 2011 first-round pick and $3 million.

Then, in a separate deal, Orlando agreed to send Rashard Lewis to the Wizards in exchange for Arenas, sources tell the Orlando Sentinel:

The Orlando Magic haven’t just tweaked their roster.

They’ve almost overhauled it.

The Magic and the Washington Wizards have finalized a trade that will bring guard Gilbert Arenas to Orlando in exchange for forward Rashard Lewis, the Magic have announced.

Surely the Magic are making power moves, but whether its new-look roster will make them any more of a contender is up for debate. Will a change of scenery bring back the old Gil and Turk? How will Arenas, Richardson and Jameer Nelson mesh the backcourt?

It’s a huge financial risk as well. Lewis is owed $66.5 million over three years and Arenas and Turkoglu are owed roughly $124 million over four years.

  • Add a Comment
  • Share
  • RSS

Tags: , , , , , , , , ,

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    Is there a better situation in the league then this of Arenas? SMH he might explode, and he’s only what 28? If he stays healthy the magic just got the opportunity to be scary good.

  • http://slamonline BossTerry

    Thats what I’m talking about!!! Phoenix is the real winner in this, and 1st..

  • http://slamonline BossTerry

    ooooh, not first.. (sadly hangs head)

  • vjiai


  • dan

    Exciting times as a magic fan!
    Got rid of the useless Lewis and his salary!

    Imagine a happy G Arenas open getting open looks from Howards double teams….

  • Overtime

    wow wow wow, big deal! I cant work out who comes off well in this deal. Its a shame that Phoenix gave up Jrich, he did alot for them. Hedo comes home, he never should have left. Vince Carter now plays with both Jason Kidd and Steve Nash, making him the luckiest dunker ever.
    That new Magic backcourt will look strange, they have lost a lot of height in this deal but there we are.
    I think the loss of Gortat is underated here

  • D12FSU

    im very excited about this..its going to take a few games, but SVG will get them to gel. I think arenas should come off the bench and be a instant offense kinda spark

  • http://slamonline.com niQ


  • http://slamonline BossTerry

    cosign overtime.. Vince’s injury prone career might just be saved..

  • LB

    Wow! Good deal for all sides, except the Wizards. The Magic finally get a bonafide scorer to take pressure off of Dwight Howard, which Vince Carter failed to do in Phoenix. They get another creator in Hedo, if he regains the form he had while he was with the Magic. Earl Clark is another big guy who’ll provide depth. Phoenix gets a replacement for J-Rich in Carter and Pietrus. All they have to do is catch lobs and hit open 3s with Nash feeding them. Phoenix now has two big, athletic bangers in Gortat and Lopez. Good deal all around, but my only question is how Orlando will try to make all these pieces on the fly while still trying to contend?

  • mikee1680

    The Magic should have made a deal for Nash while they were at it.

  • Overtime

    Massive risk on the Magic side, and they’ve lost a lot of height, I wouldnt be surprised if another move is made to secure a new back up for Howard.

  • Vince5

    Interesting trades, should help the Magic and the Suns. I don’t know for the Wiz though.

  • jtam101

    The only height they really lost was Gortat. Lewis might be physically tall, but he plays much smaller than he is anyways.

  • dma

    JRich and Arenas reunited in OTown. All I have to say is 2K11 is going to be crazy using the Magic. Dwight with Arenas, Nelson, Redick, both Richardsons, Hedo. So many threeeeeeeees. The biggest downside is that Magic took on so much long term salary – Hedo and Gortat is a wash basically, but if Arenas or Dwight go down…

  • Jose

    So It’s…



    Meanwhile in PHX

    I mean Robin did play along side his bro in college didnt he, he should know the PF game a bit

    and then


    i haven’t really seen the wiz line up so yea

  • Dagger

    I hate this deal for the Magic. They give up a ton of size by trading away Lewis and Gortat. In return they get a player in Arenas who will likely enter into a PG controversy with Nelson. If they play him at the 2 they will likely move Richardson to the 3, which renders them small and defenseless. Arenas is also injury prone and anything but an efficient scorer, and that’s before his attitude problems. Neither Arenas nor Richardson are good passers and both are big scorers, which is not necessarily a good thing when the ball needs to be funnelled to Howard. Yuck. I don’t view them as a contender in the East after this, but maybe I’ll be proven wrong. For the Suns I think this was a pretty solid trade, given the young talent and size they’re getting with Carter. Lewis is also a pretty good fit in Washington, while Arenas clearly was not after Wall’s arrival. Good trades for those two teams.

  • dannyb

    Poor, poor Steve Nash. Yes, this is a good move for the Suns organization, moving Hedo’s stupid contract. But this is a bad move for Nash, losing JRich, the only player that was really helping him make the Suns competitive. Creaky old Vince Carter is not going to fill that void.

    Steve, stop being such a nice guy and demand a trade.

  • Dagger

    Also, a big advantage the Magic had over the Bulls and Heat was the long-term continuity of their roster. By blowing up the team a third of the way through the season they’ve obviously lost that. As for the poster above who said the Magic won’t give up size with Lewis: true, he doesn’t play like a big, but he could certainly shoot over a Pierce or even Lebron. You might argue that Turk can too, but let’s face it: he’s washed up at best.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Maybe now Arenas can just chill out, relax, and play ball.
    Dwight Howard is the “undisputed Man” on that squad. Arenas should have no issues, now.
    We will see.

  • Yep

    turk is 1 1/2 seasons removed from a huge year with orlando and hasn’t suffered any major injuries – i think it’s a little naive and a little early to say he’s washed up at best. he never found a groove in either phoenix nor toronto’s system, but he’s very familiar with SVGs system. lewis has been a turd for orlando this year and gortat has been severely underplayed. it was sad not letting him go somewhere to start and potentially break out. now he’ll get that chance. i’m also puzzled at washington’s take in this though.. i guess we’ll see if lewis can get back to his old self with the wiz.

  • ClydeSays

    Seems like the Wiz win. Lewis won’t dominate the ball. Even though he has a ridiculous contract, he’s younger and healthier (steroids!) than Arenas. Gil wins b/c he escapes from DC and might actually be productive. It is a risk for the Magic. Arenas is always a health concern and eats up salary for years to come. Gortat was productive off the bench, esp. when Dwight picked up early fouls.
    Can’t really predict how this will turn out for any of the 3 teams. Pretty ballsy of Smith though.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/ The Promise

    The Magic have officially screwed themselves.

  • underdog

    Lot of people talk trash about Shard, but the thing is, this trade make him the first scoring option on his team once again. This could be work out well for all the teams involved. I wonder if Turk finds his old self in Orlando. I hope so.

  • Bdub

    As an Arenas fan i am excited about this trade. He hasn’t really hit rhythm all year. I still think the magic should now trade Jameer for more PF-C depth and let Hedo run at point forward. That way J-Rich can play SG. Dagger i see your point regarding having both J-Rich and Arenas. Turk fits the MAgic style imo. He played solidly at World Championships.
    The roster if they got rid of Jameer…
    PG: Arenas – Williams – Duhon
    SG: J-Rich – Redick
    SF: Hedo – Q-Rich – Ryan Anderson
    PF: Bass – Anderson – Malik Allen
    C: Howard – (New Big Man) – Orton?

    Definately thin up front after Howard

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Trade Jameer and let Gil run the point.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Magic won out of this deal. If you consider Lewis size something is wrong, he played no defense, shooting slumps and does not rebound. Earl Clark will do better in that spot, he can play and someone on Magic scout team knows this, like me. Also giving up Gortat is not that big of a deal. Yes he played minutes got a few rebounds, but I would rather have JRich and Hedo that Gortat on my team. Suns lose to me, Vince is over the Hill, I loved Peitrus game, but he had to go to-overrated defensive player anyway, plus Q Richardson is playing alright to in his old spot. The 1st round pick the Suns will get them a decent player, but nobody that will help them win a title-So Suns loses. JRICH was worth it. Wizards just FAILED, I would have traded Gilbert for Gerald Wallace personally or a better SF who is younger and plays defense, but the Wizards just bulleted themselve into having a high price tall non rebounding HGH taking stiff. BOOK IT!!

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Why not start jrich and give gil the green light off the bench nelson rich turn bass and howard should start. Arenas and jj off the bench. I like this move. And it’s the right time to make it.

  • http://www.google.com/news BETCATS

    Orlando is the nearsighted winner of this trade by far, but 2 years from now Gilbert and Hedo wont be doing much and have untradeable contracts. But if they win a ring this year none of that will matter. Orlando is now the best team in Florida and maybe even better than Boston.

  • tony scorpio

    This is a way for half man half amazin to become fully retired unless the miracle workers in phx can rebuild vinces knees like they did shaqs back. Phoenix plays the minimal defense that vc is used to & the possibility of nash leaving(though currently hurt) is abundantly clear.
    It was about time that shard made his overpaid way out of orlando, his service vs cleveland & lakers was much appreciated I’m sure but since he didn’t help get a ring, it was going to happen. Have fun with the distinguished gentleman, john wall. Well there’s more on the trading agenda still to come, feb 24ths so close but yet so far away.

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    I think Phoenix improved the most from this. Gortat is an immense upgrade at center, mainly on offense but it’s Phoenix so..that’s what matters. And they got flexibility only owe Carter 4 mill next season and pietres is a freakshow athlete

  • JTaylor21

    I don’t understand how trading for two scorers who play no defense and losing size and defense with Gorat and Pietrus makes them the best team in FLA and suddenly better than the celtics? If anything they are stuck in the same situation they were before this; the third best team in the east at best and chicago might be better than them.

  • http://Eboy Eboy

    Man, the magic have almost too much depth now, hopefully they can re-spark the flame in hibatchi, and bring back the old hedo. As for the suns and wizards, it wont do them any good, vince is too injury prone to bring the old legs back, and rashard will average 15 points per game until he’ll get traded to another shit team.

  • http://ZIZ ZIZ

    well said boy

  • http://psp2423@yahoo.com Eboy

    Out of all the people the Suns trade Jrich…the Suns must have SH*T in their heads why would they trade Jrich he was always consistent and played all right D I know he was old but he is way better than Vince Carter. The Magic won in this trade if everything works out the Suns lost and the Wizards get a 3 point shooter, Trade Of The Year!!!

  • flimo

    I see a Nelson trade coming, but not before Arenas and Hedo proves, that they can contribute what they need.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Orlando upgraded at he two and three and shored up their bench scoring. Smart move I think.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Great move for the Magic–it seems like they’re the only team Turkoglu cared about playing for… Anyways, the best part about the trade with Phoenix is they get Jason Richardson, who is actually quite a bit better than Vince Carter at this point. Giving up Lewis for Arenas might be the steal of the year… Two f*cked up contracts, but Gil, when allowed to play at his level, actually somewhat justifies his. Lewis on the other hand… Well, he can be pretty decent when motivated.

  • onions baby onions

    Questions that I immediately thought of upon hearing about this trade:
    -Can the PHX team doctors (widely regarded as one of the top therapy teams in the league) be able work their magic on Vince?
    -Will SVG give Arenas any form of a green light to jack shots like he used to?
    -Will Shard put forth any kind of effort for the Wiz, or will he just continue to collect his cheques?

  • nobrain

    hoochie mama. magic to the finals again. they’ve lost a season but finally understand how worthy hedo is

  • kb24mj23

    I would say that the magic lost height, but heeight wasn’t what was strong about Rashard’s game anyways. I like the deal for the magic. At least they are trying to be uinsatisfied with mediocrity. Making moves. we’ll see how it works out for them.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Pardeep

    Wow.. this could be Gil’s chance to kind of be the NBA’s Michael Vick , Gil should play the point Jameer should sit, this teams going to be scary! I would love to see the Phoenix trainers and doctors get Vince into great shape, if they can do it to a 35 year old Shaq I am pretty sure they can do it for Vince.

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    Why everyone assume Hedo will be good? I don’t think he is just gonna flip a switch

  • Bdub

    @Philo- Gil is not a traditional PG, but he wouldn’t need to be with Hedo there. Regardless he would make a good 6th man. Athletically he has looked good this year. It just seemed he was playing as if he was waiting to be traded.
    I believe.

  • Bdub

    @ They are assuming that afamilar system (which suits) and team mates ( -a few) will help him ‘flip the switch’. We shall see.

  • http://dsjkflf.com Jukai

    Here’s my take as a Phoenix fan:
    Amazingly. Excited.
    I know a lot of people are down about this Phoenix trade. I’ll be honest, Jason Richardson was maybe tied with Nash as the Sun’s best player. I was never a fan before he got to Phoenix but he won me over. So, so long Richardson. I wish you the best.
    But outside of that, I’m ecstatic!
    Why am I so happy? Because we had to take a chance!
    We were not going to win with this roster. Robin Lopez didn’t improve, and we’ve massively regressed defensively. Nash is playing too many minutes and we still don’t have anyone who can create without him (as much as I loved Richardson, he really did have a hard time scoring when Nash wasn’t feeding him in his spots). At this rate, we’re struggling to make an 8th seed spot. We may very well not make the playoffs if Portland keeps playing strong or Houston/Memphis get their sh*t together.
    So I’m FINE with taking a risk! I’m fine with taking Vince Carter!
    First off, f– Hedo. I set the bar low and still was disappointed. If we’re too afraid to bring Grant off the bench, then we just can’t have Hedo. He doesn’t play well with Goran, and even though he hits big shots at the end, he throws off everyone’s rhythm in the beginning. GOODBYE dude. Earl Clarke was a throw-away, he is g-d awful and I’ve been saying it for years.
    Vince Carter isn’t as good as Richardson, no way no how. But he’s still a force. He will still hit three-pointers and he can still dunk. I have hope that Phoenix’s staff can bring him back, but if they can’t, we’ll have to deal with the downgrade at guard.
    I’m more excited about Pietrus and Gortat!
    We were sort of weak at the guard spot and our centers couldn’t play a lick of D, but not anymore! Pietrus can come in and be a MASSIVE stopper at both the two and three spot! Some people say he’s overrated defensively, but this is Phoenix, even if he turned out to be a below average defender without Dwight, he’s still a massive upgrade to Richardson guarding anyone. With Dragic, Peitrus and Hill, we actually have a NICE defensive unit on the wing. Not to mention, all Peitrus does is shoot threes and gets cut dunks— PERFECT when playing with Nash and Dragic!
    Gortat also isn’t a LOCKDOWN defender, but he’s solid defensively and is a GREAT offensive center down low, something we just didn’t have. I expect him to immediately start over Lopez, and I expect him to absolutely flourish in the Suns offense. He’s mobile, likes to set screens, can dunk over peeps and I’ll take my bets that he’ll be killer on the fast break
    So even if Vince doesn’t come back to form and he’s sort of a Jason Richardson minus half, we still got two key semi-defensive pieces who will fit in seamlessly!
    Here’s the bottom line Suns fans: we simply weren’t making any noise. Even if this trade goes horribly and we miss the playoffs, I’m fine that we took the chance. We had a 50% chance of missing them anyway. At least we can say we tried. We’ll also have financial flexibility in the future, to rebuild when Nash and Carter and Hill have gone and retired. All-in-all, very exciting to be a Suns fan right now!

  • Bdub

    Re: Hedo transition

  • http://dsjkflf.com Jukai

    We also got DEEP again!
    PG – Nash, Dragic
    SG – Carter, Pietrus
    SF – Hill, Childress
    PF – Frye, Warrick
    C – Gortat, Lopez
    Now I like this trade even more. We had too many SF/PFs in our lineup before the trade. Now we got rid of one forward and one upped our center/shooting guard spot.
    As for my take on the other teams, getting rid of Arenas was just a financial move for the Wizards. I’m really not sure they care how Lewis will do— but if Wall stays healthy, he’ll have someone to throw it to for the three.
    As for the Wizards… I’m…. really not so sure. Yeah, Hedo is back but like, he’s three years detached from his heydays with the Wizards. I’m not sure he can turn it back on. We’re also giving the Wizards a more ball-dominant point in Arenas, something Hedo is BAD with playing.
    And Arenas needs to start. Jameer can only play the point, Richardson can play the three but he really is only good at the two. Arenas can play both the one and two. So, when one comes off the bench, Arenas can slide over. So, you know, I don’t know. I guess Dwight will be playing 40 minutes a game too. I really don’t know if this helps the Wizards. We’ll see.

  • Adam

    Gilbert Arenas whatever his flaws off the court and on the defencive end is still a very solid player. I wonder what he could have done if he hadn’t done in his MCL. He’d averaged 34 points in the playoffs the year before. He might not get a free-reign like he used to have in washington but he’ll find shots and can certainly create off the dribble, which Orlando were somewhat lacking this season. I like J-Rich too, gives effort on D and can get to the hoop and shoot from outside. You have to figure that one of them is going to start on the bench though

    I reserve judgement on Hedo, i hope he can bounce back from a couple of poor stints, but he and Dwight Howard sure could run the pick and roll well together in ’09.

    Pietrus gives Pheonix a good defender and spot up shooter, should fit right into the Suns system. Gortat gives them length which they needed and i think a bit of toughness which they definatly lacked, it’ll be interesting to see haw he goes with more minutes.

    Lewis has the potential to be a dynamic scorer when he feels like it. I think its a matter of him getting his shot to fall, when its going down he just has more energy, he should take it to the post more, cause he can score it down there, he used to with the sonics. Washington are still last in rebounding i think and i dont think lewis really going to improve things for them, despite his height.

  • Omar

    Gilbert should be the 6th man. If he starts then the defense isnt any better.

  • Groves

    Now Trade Nelson or Arenas for Chris paul :P and bring Fran Vasquez over from spain if you can convince him

  • T-Money

    I dont consider this a gamble as there was no chance of orlando doing anything with the current line up. Gil as a 6th man is perfect if he still got some explosiveness left. However 2 red flags: 1- Turk is done. Like completely. 3- there is not a single good individual defender on the team besides dwight. Thats tough.

  • http://Slamonline.com Caboose

    As a Magic fan, I love this. Vince’s shot selection and lack of defense really hurt the team. And Lewis: the spot up shooter who can’t shoot. Anyways, Gil gives them a scorer, Hedo gives them a creator, Bass gets to start, and Jrich provides scoring punch off the bench. Look out Boston.

  • http://dsjkflf.com Jukai

    Jason Richardson is not a better defender than Vince Carter guys. Please don’t think you got an upgrade on defense, just offense.

  • Omar

    @ Jukai
    Not even a little bit?

  • Heals

    In other news the C’s and Heat didn’t blink…

  • logues

    i would say jrich has an advantage on D mostly because he is much quicker than vince. to me, orlando def got it the best. vince is getting old and slow, hes not consistent, and takes A LOT of dumb shots. Rashard lewis wasnt doing anything special for orlando. now they’ve replaced the 3 point shooting with a top 5 3 point shooter in the league in jrich, dude can go off any night. also, arenas and turk have the ability to create off the dribble and either dish or make their own shot, something lewis wasnt that good at.

  • ripslam

    Vince hasn’t had an injury-prone career, he’s fabricated injuries for himself.

  • fruizm

    if anyone watched the press conference….svg clearly said that one of the four players (arenas, hedo, j rich, or jameer) would have to come off the bench….and he said “but it will defintely not be jameer”…..that means they wont trade him, and hes most likely to start arenas at the 2 and then let him be the pg if jameer is sitting.

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    JRich is abysmal on defense. If your not sure go watchh game 1 against Portland. Also watch whatever game it was that Roy was the catalyst. Watch the Artest game winner play.

  • Adam

    Defence isn’t always about the one-on-one battles, team defence is where Orlando have their greatest strength, he can learn that system. Alternatly he can just try to outgun the other guy, im up for the entertainment factor of that. Just going to throw it out there, LeBron definatly fouled Kirk Hinrich at the end of the MIA-WAS game a moment ago.

  • T-Money

    Adam: Team defense starts with at least keeping your man from getting into the middle – which none of Orlando’s wings can do right now.

  • http://www.jewelzlopez.com -Mas-

    Holy windmill dunks Batman. Superman just got some new heros in his Justice League that is Amway Arena.
    Turk, Gil and JRich don’t make the MAgic better just more fun to watch.
    I like how Nash looks in all this. Los Suns needed the rebounds.
    Wizards? IDK.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Canuck

    Isn’t a lineup of Jameer, Richardson, Hedo, Bass and Howard better, with Arenas coming off the bench as 6th man?

  • http://bassbesteck.blogspot.com bassbesteck

    UNREAL. That’s moving some major names IMO

  • robb

    great news for both teams, but I think getting rid of VC was the best thing the Magic could do. JRich is definitely better than him, and it’s also a great chance for Arenas. I’m sure he’s gonna be the player he was.

  • http://dosfdjkal.com Jukai

    Canuck: when you phrase it like that, it does sound like a pretty good lineup. Just worried about how Orlando is now VERY weak at the front. I guess they’re going to play Ryan Anderson WAY more now, which is fine, Anderson is a decent player, but… does Daniel Orton now play backup center? Eesh. Dwight Howard better be used to playing 40-45 minutes a game, and Brandon Bass better have the stamina to play 25-30.
    OR there are more trades coming. JJ Reddick on the chopping block for a big?

  • Anonymous

    A great joke is waiting to happen…Wizards doing Magic in a three way under the Sun? I just provide the material people its on yall to format it….

  • http://dosfdjkal.com Jukai

    On the other hand, my brother made a comment about how he predicts Vince Carter and Grant Hill are going to go for a loose ball, hit each other, and disintegrate. I corrected my brother by saying Vince Carter would never go for a loose ball. Now I’m getting a bit nervous.

  • http://www.vandelayindustry.com Art Vandelay

    All of these trades don’t make any difference. They won’t improve the Wizards’ situation, they won’t save the Suns from having a mediocre season, and most of all, they won’t turn the Magic into a real contender.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Andray Blatche is Derrick Coleman Jr.

  • Joey Jo Jo

    Do you think Steve Kerr would’ve done any better?

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    @philosopher Derrick Coleman wasted more talent then Andray Blatche can dream of

    @Jo Jo. Kerr never would’ve traded for Turkoglu in the first place

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    I’m just happy the Suns got rid of Hedo…sorry Hedo. But you stank it up..

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Maybe, but with the talent Coleman did salvage, he looks like Blatche Sr.
    6’10″ – 11″ player breaking guys down at the top of the key, passing, and what not.

  • http://dosfdjkal.com Jukai

    Philo: Coleman had way more potential than Blache. I don’t get the comparison.

  • http://studmuff73.blog.com/ Zabba

    If Vince regains some of his old form, I’m talking about Vince from three years ago…then that seals it, the Suns are dabbling in voodoo.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Yes, he did, but again, what Coleman DID actually do in his day as far as basketball tendencies are concerned, Blatche is doing them now similarly to how Coleman did it.
    Off the dribble game.
    The height and size.
    And, Blatche has not reached his potential, by the way.

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    I thought u were saying it like Blatche could be a lot better but as an actual comparison on production it is decent

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Only on their styles of game.
    Truth be told, Coleman could/should have been the greatest power forward of all time.

  • starky larky

    man, that Magic lineup translates into one word: threeeeeeeeeeees. and that’s not even a word.

  • Anonymous

    Derrick Coleman equals PRIME Chris Webber plus PRIME Rasheed Wallace. Should’ve anywho. SN had sheed ever reached full potential…

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Wow, talk about full circle for Hedo. 3 teams in 2 Seasons. Hoping Stan Van Jeremy doesn’t get an epileptic fit with Gil on his team.

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    As long as we on the same page philo

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    I feel you.

  • http://dosfdjkal.com Jukai

    Ugh, Derrick Coleman was good but his height was top-10, not number 1. He never had the fundamentals or the BBall IQ.

  • Thomas

    Please Trade Steve Nash!!

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Before Derrick Coleman, there is not a power forward in League History who could do what he does. He was the first of his kind.

  • letsmotor

    there goes the magic’s best perimeter defender in pietrus. that could hurt them. i’m not saying he’s a dpoy candidate, but he’s more than solid, and a team like orlando trying to get over the hump needs that.

  • pache

    sooo whos comming off the bench for the magic? and didnt they just get Qrichardson over the summer. idk risky move

  • http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/ Jukai

    The Philosopher: Bob Cousy and Bob Pettit were the first of their kind. Do you feel like in today’s game, they’d be winning MVP awards? Derrick Coleman was a chucker who didn’t understand the game. Perod.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    I guess people had huge expectations for Coleman, because he had a great first five seasons in the league (pretty much 20 and 10 every year), and people are calling him a wasted talent. Do people really think he could have been the best PF ever? I’m just asking because I’m not the most familiar with his game.

  • Benji Moore

    Woo .. you guys assume Hedo will be good… don’t forget he’s been out of Orlando for 2 years and playing like a hack. Does this mean he’s instantly going be the same player? I doubt it, he had 1 good PO season and that’s it..

    GA can be good if he regains his form.. but he’s been hurt/suspend for so long that who knows.

    JR is kewl.

    The problem with HT and GA is they WANT the ball all the time.. get ready for some ball hogging and Magic having more headaches trying to get some chemistry going… I see Magic making the PO but placing no higher than 5th.

  • funkdoc

    Everybody’s complaining about Orlando loosing height. Okay, you loose Lewis, but everybody’s talking about his replacements and the lack of size they bring. One man has been completely forgotten, and should be an x-factor for the Magic if they struggle with their lack of size, and that is Ryan Andersen. Dude is a good player, maybe a better shooter than Lewis and big. I don’t see the loss of Lewis as something significant. Also, JRich isn’t abysmal on defense. If you play for the Suns, defense isn’t a concern. Rich is athletic enough to defend someone one on one.

    I also do hope Hedo gets back. And honestly, I think he will. Maybe Orlando’s system is the only system that suits him, but I believe he will regain his confedence once he hits a game winner.

    I don’t know if a lineup with all Magic’s superstars is the solution. Some games might show that it’s better to start with Nelson, J-Rich, Ryan Anderson, Hedo and Howard. I don’t know. I do know that Hedo can only be effective and confident if he get’s his starting role back.

    One note: I wouldn’t be surprised if any of these guys gets traded again for a big man. Maybe Arenas time with that Magic will be short?

  • RedRum

    biggest gain is Turkoglu. He is exactly what the team needs. A tall forward with great passing, playmaking and shooting.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    For the ‘unofficial’ record…Hedo really came into his prime when Jameer Nelson went down with an injury and they brought ‘skip’ in. With Jameer back on the ball and Dwight very much deserving of ALOT of possession down low…I wonder how he will fit in again.

  • Apeman

    gues vince carter will start jumping over 7 footers again… with the training staff in phoenix:D

  • biged

    Man i called this trade the other day in the other article about Dwight Howard….I said a straight swap; lewis for arenas cause they both make ridiculous money.
    Now imma call the nxt trade. out of Richardson, arenas and nelson…trade two for one: Chris Paul.

  • KH10

    good trade for the suns, big risk for the magic and a horrible trade for the wiz, Rashard Lewis plays the same position as Al thornton and Josh howard and is too weak to play the 4.
    really hope that vince brings some energy and that Gortat is for real.

  • L

    Too bad for Phoenix we are not in 2000: Vince, GHill, Nash that would have been a dream team..L

  • ErnieD

    They7 should have never let go of Turk. Carter was never the answer. Gilbert and Vince is almost an apple vs orange (save for attitude and injuries for Gilbert). Lewis was also a terrible sign for them. Perhaps they are not done dealing/

  • Pingback: SLAM ONLINE | » Post Up: All You Need is Love

  • Hammer

    Magic STILL didn’t addressed their need. No legit back-up 4 dwight and now they traded away 4 players who can’t play defense….Suns came out lookin decent tho

  • Hammer

    Coleman:I wouldn’t go as far as 2 say he shouldve been the gpfoat,but mos def top 5. The talent he had,MAN! Such a shame. He was something 2 watch no doubt

  • http://airtsinelas21.blogspot.com Roy

    The Magic is the winner of that trade in my humble opinion…

  • birdy

    there goes J.J Redick’s career in Orlando…

  • Yann Blavec

    Robin Lopez is good but the Suns needed a real center.

  • Yann Blavec

    ROY the winner is phoenix

  • JC

    Genius, Magic !! they somehow were able to dump that useless, super expensive sorry-a$$ Lewis. !! awesome. Lewis is tall but can not rebound, can shoot 3s, but chokes when the game is on the line.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    All that I am saying is that Coleman had the talent, and the potential to be the greatest power forward of all time.
    I know that he was a head case. There are different circumstances for different players’ career.
    And, Yao Ming is the first of his kind. Do you agree that barring the injuries, he was on his way to becoming a sure fire Hall of Fame talent?
    Also, if Steve Nash (who allegedly plays bad defense) wins two MVPs… I’ll just say that Cousy would be resoundingly successful in today’s league. Now, what one may call successful, another one may not, no?
    To some, one does not have to garner multiple awards and accolades to be considered a success. He would be an all star though, in my opinion.
    Petit, I do not believe, would have a resounding effect today.

  • ab40

    please phoenix resurrect vince carter. and make plans to sign both greg oden and shaun livingston we need those guys to be good nba players within the next five years. Gilbert for sixth man of the year.. Gilbert is a funny name

  • http://bulls.com airs

    late on posting on this thread, but i’d just like to say: HIBAAACHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!

  • Blackphantom

    I think is a good trade for everyone…but Washington unless Rashard Lewis does his thing

  • http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/ Jukai

    Philo: We’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t think Coleman had the BBall IQ to be the best. He always made dumb mistakes, always took bad shots. You can play this on him being a ‘headcase’ but Basketball IQ is something different. He didn’t have it.
    Plus I mean, you can talk about all his lack of technical skill, but there’s a billion players who were ultra athletic and big who you can see if they just had BBall smarts and technical skills, they would have been the best. I just don’t like the argument. Coleman wasn’t missing just one thing, he was missing a LOT.
    And Cousy was much different from Nash, bro, you claim to be a student of the game but like, they played totally differently. Cousy COULD NOT SHOOT FOR ANYTHING. For ANYTHING. And he played in a time where shooting whenever you were open was the way basketball teams ran— hence his terrible shooting percentages. He was a scrappy defensive, fast cutting, ball movement guy who got the majority of his assists by passing to cutters, while Nash was a terribly defensive, shoot to create space, ball controlling guy who made most of his assists passing to guys ont he fast break. They were not a similar as NBA 2k10 will tell you.

  • shu

    Didn’t the chuckster in his prime say “Derrick Coleman can be the gpfoat?” That was from MVP Sir Charles in the early 90′s. I think Coleman’s lack of progression was what puzzled people. He came out of ‘Cuse and was dominant- 19 and 11 or something (sorry too lazy to look up) with ROY honors then kind of tapered off… Dang it who wrote that Old School article on Coleman a few years back? Oh right there was a trade huh? Um free Courtney Lee? I can’t wait until suckers go for Hedo’s pump fakes from 10 feet behind the 3 point line.

  • Pingback: SLAM ONLINE | » Passadaday: Andray Blatche to Al Thornton

  • orl.chris

    I love these trades for the magic. Jameer Jrich Hedo Bass Howard with Gil as a 6th man is a strong lineup. Ryan Anderson and Rashard Lewis are basically the same player right now at this point in their careers. Anderson and JJ will hopefully get some good minutes off the bench.

    What I don’t like about the trades is losing Gortat – that hurts the Magic more than people might think. Also we now have a bunch of useless players on our roster. There is absolutely zero need for Jwill, Duhon, or Qrich. If we could somehow flip those guys for a backup for Howard that would be awesome. Maybe we could get Okafor’s bad contract? I think he’d be a great fit in Gortats old role.

  • http://Slamonline.com Nbk

    Derrick Coleman spent the offseasons drinking and never stayed in shape. It’s a widely accepted belief that he had the potential to be the best pf of all time. 20 & 10 for him was underperforming – he went for 20 & 10 out of shape and really without any drive to get better.

  • SEAN

    I’M a die hard suns fan i lie the tread to get some big man but im sad jrich is leaving him and nash have worked well togather since day 1 but i gusee it is time for the suns and jrich to move on.

  • Tyquan

    They say the best trades are the ones you dont make but in this case I think Otis Smith had to make a change because Miami and Boston set the standard for how to build a team in the East and the Magic losing at home to ATL without Joe Johnson didnt exactly help out the cause. Gilbert Arenas possibly coming off the bench is a good problem to have maybe they should think about maybe trading Nelson if it starts a point guard controversy and Stan the Man should stop playing games and give Brandon Bass some burn but getting Turkoglu back was a smooth move by Otis Smith.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    I have never said that Coleman has Jerry West’s I.Q. I have never even said that Coleman is ultra athletic. (he was not, Blake and Amar’e are)
    As far as being a student of the game, as you have put it; I’ll take that, for I most certainly am a student of this game, and I appreciate the acknowledgment. And, you respect it.
    Anyways, you do not have to tell me the difference between Nash and Cousy.
    You had asked me a question, I had attempted to procure an answer. Nothing more or less.
    And, to be totally honest, I have not even played 2K10 yet. Those games do not always appeal to me so, I would not know what that game would have to tell me about a player(s).
    So, since Cousy cannot shoot, and does everything you said he does, we will call him Rajon Rondo. An all star in today’s game. Not an MVP, but an Olympic caliber player. A successful player in some circles.

  • pache

    The Philo: I’d agree with the Rondo comparison.
    I guess some people agree with you that Coleman was regarded as having the possibility of being the best power forward ever. I don’t really remember that. I remember him being more regarded with skepticism.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Many people do not seem to know the impact that Coleman had on the Game when he came into The League. Coleman and The League were not ready for each other.
    This is true.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    Philo: that was me, actually.
    I’d say Coleman was actually bad for the league, the perfect image of someone who did not want or care about improving his game, just money and the limelight. The anti-thesis of the 90s. I believe the natural progression of the league would have lead to power forwards like him anyway.
    No post moves, shoddy footwork, bad passing, unfortunate shot selection, lazy defense. That’s really what he brought to the power forward position. It’s bad to the point that people see Duncan post up and they think he’s a center.
    Coleman really was simply an athletic shooting guard in a fours body. Great handle, massively strong and fast, and he could shoot it from the outside. But like, he was really not this compete, amazing power forward. I guess you could SAY if he learned all those things I mentioned he was lacking (which one can learn, given time) he would have been the greatest. But he never chose to work on ANY of them when he was in Syracuse, he just got better at what he was already good at. And then he started eating. And not practicing. And that was that.
    My Dad was a HUMONGOUS Syracuse fan and even he knew that Coleman’s height was occasional all-star. You can work on post moves and footwork, but you can’t work on BBall IQ and intensity. Dude never had it.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    Whoa, didn’t meant to use antithesis. Meant to use epitome, or essence. Quintessence. Bottom line, I gotta stop trying to look intelligent.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Colemman fell in love with his jumper and the drink. Plus be never liked being a pro player that much. He was very smart larry brown loved his iq.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    I agree with you on many points about Derrick Coleman. Except, Coleman was underrated in a few aspects of the Game.
    Anyways, I blame Magic Johnson for some of the things you mentioned. For, Magic inspired a many a big man to think that they know how to play like a guard. (Webber, Garnett, Derrick McKey, ect.)
    And, Coleman was a great passer. A GREAT passer (for his position). Underrated defender.
    He could run the fast break. Who at his position and size before him can do that as effectively as him?…
    Like many players before and since, Coleman relied purely on instincts. He really did not need to exact his basketball intelligence quotient. He did have one, contrary to many opinion. I mean, you know how it is, I would think.
    And, I respectfully think that you are overrating Coleman’s athleticism. He was not a freak. He had a plethora of natural skill and abilities, and had athleticism that would equate to what we tend to label as average today.
    But yes, Coleman for a brief period time was “THAT dude”.
    Finally, I co-sign Allenp.

  • http://sjkdflsf.com Jukai

    Philo: Coleman was a sucky passer. He didn’t “run” the fast break. He would take the ball and go coast-to-coast. If he lost his dribble, only then would he pass.
    Coleman was a freak athlete. Not Lebron level, but he was ludicrously quick and mobile for his height, and he also had some hops. Sure, he wasn’t going to beat anyone out in a sprint, but he was 6’10, and he ran the break, that’s fast. He’s not Amare, but he was ridiculous.
    I’ll defer on defensive matters cause at that age, I wasn’t really interesting in gauging people defensively.

  • http://philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Coleman was not a “sucky” passer. Maybe he had a bunch of turnovers or threw the ball away every time you have watched him, if you have watched him. And, he ran the break. Trust and believe that. He finished the break, and he assisted the break.
    Everything else regarding your 12:14 am comment is arguable except that he was a freak athlete. He just was not. He had a wing span that sometimes made him look like a better athlete than he really was.

  • Bayer

    Derrick coleman’s wife is a nice lady!!!

  • http://dsajfklf.com Jukai

    So at 6’10 he ran the break, but he was not a freak athlete. Alright.
    Later Philo.

  • jub_al


  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    You do not have to be a freak athlete to orchestrate a fast break at 6’10″.
    Was Bird a freak athlete?
    What about Dirk Nowitzki?
    What about Detlef Schrempf?
    What about Hidayet Turkoglu?
    Come on.
    I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and chalk it up to you being sarcastic…

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    So Derrick Colemans name has been heard enough already for 2010.

  • http://Hedo Ali Duyar

    Hedo has carier best 3 point percentage this year.He is fit as he never be (thanks Suns).He was leader of Natonal team, wich was play the final against USA at world championship.He said that(last week) , he lost 9 kg (an interview with Turkish TV). I am sure he will be good in Orlando again.

  • Pingback: SLAM ONLINE | » Is Arenas Trade Enough to Keep Dwight Howard in Orlando?

  • rikson

    Coleman could be best PF of all time?! You gotta be joking…

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I’m guessing most of y’all don’t remember Coleman, don’t remember him on Dream Team 2, don’t remember him averaging 20 and 10 his first four or five seasons, and don’t remember my ranking of him on the 90s power forward list.
    Before he stopped caring, Coleman was ridiculously talented and skilled. He wasn’t about athleticism as far as quickness and jumping, but his handle was crazy for a big man, and his touch was outstanding.
    He had a nice turnaround on the block, range out out the three and he was pretty freaking large. Like I said, he had a drinking problem, an effort problem, and a jump shooting problem. His average dropped to like 40 percent at one point even though he was still getting 20 a game. I’m wagering that some of y’all don’t really remember how he played. He was kind of like Bosh, except with more bulk and a better handle.

  • http://Philosophervision@blogspot.com The Philosopher

    Order is restored.
    Thanks, Allen.

  • Justin

    I always loved watching Coleman play, dating back to the days at Syracuse (my second favourite college team ever after the Larry Johnson UNLV teams) and he had so much talent and potential. It’s a shame he had the issues he did. Sometimes I think he got a little caught up in the Kenny Anderson style of play too when they played together in New Jersey. To me, Kenny Anderson was another waste of potential and I don’t think either of them helped each other’s cause