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Monday, May 6th, 2013 at 9:10 am  |  136 responses

Carmelo Anthony Got One MVP Vote Over LeBron James


by Marcel Mutoni @ marcel_mutoni

On Sunday afternoon, the inevitable became official, as LeBron James took home the Maurice Podoloff trophy for the fourth time in his career. Somewhat incredibly, not everyone thought he deserved it.

According to one lone voting media member—Gary Washburn of the Boston Globe—Carmelo Anthony should’ve won the 2012-13 NBA regular season MVP. The veteran reporter reasons that Melo had a bigger load to carry in New York than LeBron James did in Miami.

Per the Globe and Yahoo! Sports:

I voted for Carmelo Anthony based on his importance to the New York Knicks, who, if you haven’t been paying attention the past decade, have failed to be relevant. When the voting was announced Sunday afternoon, I was flabbergasted to learn I was the lone voter among 121 to not give LeBron a first-place vote, truly believing Anthony, Kevin Durant, Chris Paul, and perhaps even Kobe Bryant would snag a first-place vote or two.

“I just honestly felt that Carmelo Anthony lifted the Knicks to new heights this season – a No. 2 seed and their first division title in 19 years – with an aging roster, the team’s second-best player [Amar'e Stoudemire] out most of the season and a myriad of other injuries,” Washburn said. “LeBron James is unquestionably the best player in the league, but I felt this season Anthony had more value to his team.”

When asked about getting 120 out of 121 first-place MVP votes, LeBron James joked that it was probably a writer from New York whose bias in the long-running Heat/Knicks rivalry played a role in the final tally.

During the trophy presentation, LBJ talked about wanting to win the Defensive Player of the Year award a lot more than the MVP (unanimously or not).

Win an eye towards a second straight NBA title, these are all good problems to have for the League’s best player.

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  • JetSkiJohnson

    where would the Knicks be without Melo? where would the Heat be without Lebron? There’s your MVP

  • jmm

    I’ve always thought the MVP should be judged on how a team would do with Player X replaced by Player Y. Eventually you’ll find a Player X that can’t possibly be replaced or improved upon.

    Replace Melo with LeBron this year – Knicks do better. Other way, Heat do worse. So on and and so forth. I think it’s pretty clear that this year no-one could have done a better job than LeBron.

  • Dagger

    The Heat are historically great. Without Lebron they would be a good team, but they’d have a really hard time getting to the Finals. The Knicks without Melo would still be a playoff team, but they might have been eliminated a round earlier. I’d argue that the Heat’s leap from good to great with Lebron is more significant than the jump from decent to good with Melo and the Knicks.

    Think about it this way: where would the Lakers be without Howard this season? Obviously they wouldn’t have sniffed the playoffs. Where would the Grizzlies be without Gasol? Those are great players, but they aren’t MVPs.

    With all that in mind, I’d give the award to the league’s best player on its best team. Melo should be fourth in the MVP ranking this season.

  • shockexchange

    People made the reverse argument when LeBron was with the Cavs. The Cavs were not very good so he should not have won the MVP. But then again, he had not mastered “The Rules” yet.

  • Jonathan Faulkner

    It absolutely should have been unanimous, ridiculous that it wasn’t. Even more ridiculous that it was Melo who got the solitary vote, if it had of been Durant you’d understand, his numbers were historic too. Whoever voted for Melo needs to stand up and state the case and shortly thereafter have their voting rights relinquished.

  • danpowers

    i am absolutely a die hard knicks fan so also a melo fan, but that vote is ridiculous.
    seems to me as if he wanted to make the mvp voting artificially more interesting than it actually was. i also understand that “the knicks without melo would be worse than the heat without bron” arguement, but the extent of james contribution to any team, no matter if bad like cleveland or good like the heat, exceeds any measurable frame. lebron james is in a league of his own, also by any “best player on the best team and how team x would do without player y” standards.
    the knicks being so bad for so many years and being relevant and quite successful after all these years is not an arguement for a current mvp voting.
    as much as it hurts to write these lines as a knicks fan, but thats just the uncomfortable truth.

  • JetSkiJohnson

    id doubt the knicks would be a playoff team without carmelo . There should be two awards. MVP and Best player.

  • Josias Johnson

    Melo doesn’t make his teammates better. JR gets his despite of Melo. Same with Felton. LeBron would have Tyson Chandler involved offensively besides rebounding misses and getting putbacks and catching alley oops. The Knicks were better this season because of multiple things. Melo did share the ball more at times, but still not enough. Jason Kidd’s leadership, JR Smith’s maturity, and Kenyon Martin’s toughness also helped the Knicks this season. Wasn’t just Melo’s scoring. Mike Woodson’s coaching also played a factor.

  • Josias Johnson

    LeBron would get both. Where would the Bulls be without Joakim Noah this season? Spurs without Tony Parker? Clippers without CP3? Pacers without Paul George? Warriors without Steph Curry? I could go on and on.

  • JetSkiJohnson

    Nah i rather give the MVP to Melo but it is what it is.

  • http://twitter.com/_DFrance DFrance

    It all comes down to what your definition of the MVP is. For this guy, the MVP is the guy who is most valuable to their team. The Knicks would be far worse without Melo than the Heat would be without LeBron, for me that’s not debatable. So I have no problem with the logic behind him voting for Melo.

    But one could also argue the degree of value to their teams as well. If Miami goes from a 1 seed to a 4 seed without LeBron, and NY goes from a 2 seed to a 6 without Melo then who is more valuable? It’s splitting hairs.

    The problem is the definition of the award switches all the time and then sometimes the voters get tired of giving it to the same guy all the time and vote for someone else. It’s not a perfect system.

    I think LeBron deserved it, but I also have no problem with the other players getting votes as well.

  • JetSkiJohnson

    exactly the Nba should change the name of this award to THE BEST player in the league

  • Dagger

    The Knicks played well without Melo this season. You’re undervaluing their other players and their coaching. Do you really see the Raptors beating them for that eighth spot this year if Melo didn’t play?

  • Josias Johnson

    Agreed. Same thing I judge it on.

  • http://www.facebook.com/shooting.guard.319 Shooting Guard

    I’m surprised it’s even a debate

  • Fat Lever

    Seems like this writer just wanted the attention. I’m pretty sure he knew that anyone that didn’t place a first place vote for Lebron would eventually be identified(even though there’s not a large likelihood he knew he’d be the only one).

    It’s a shame too, because Lebron is on another plane right now than everyone else in the league, which is impressive considering the things KD is doing(90/50/40 shooting splits all while being crazy efficient), Melo accomplished(for the reasons above), etc.

  • Drig

    With all due to respect to Melo, Kobe or CP3 deserved that vote a heck of a lot more if the argument was based upon how badly the team would fall without those respective players.

    LAL – Kobe = Lottery.

    LAC – CP3 = Lottery.

    NYK – Melo = 6th seed.

    This is IF he got the first place vote based on the “He’s more valuable for his team” argument.

  • JetSkiJohnson

    if the raptors had rudy gay all season then maybe but the 8th spot would only prove my point.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    let’s squash this stupid ass reasoning very quickly.
    .
    what is the most important thing in the NBA?
    - Championship.
    .
    Are the Heat championship contenders with LeBron?
    - Yes, they are the favorite.
    .
    Are the Heat championship contenders without LeBron?
    - No
    .
    Are the Knicks championship contenders with Carmelo?
    - No
    .
    Are the Knicks championship contenders without Carmelo?
    - No
    .
    Is it worse to be a 7 seed instead of a 2, or to not be a championship contender instead of the favorite.
    .
    It’s simple who the MVP is. The reasoning for Melo is broken. Unless you value losing at some point earlier more important than not losing at all.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    right.

  • mike

    When talking about why KD 50/40/90 deserves MVP, people should also point out Lebron finished with 56/40/75. KD onlyedge was free throws

  • Drig

    LBJ takes less perimeter shots I think? He also takes significantly less 3s me thinks?

    Before you come out and say that’s just better IQ, it ain’t. It’s a byproduct of the sets OKC runs and the personnel they have.

  • LeBron James

    What’s your credit card number?

  • jmm

    We’ve been through this LeBron. I am not buying you any more leather t-shirts. They are ridiculous.

  • Rockwell

    Is this the same guy who voted for Allen Iverson when Shaq steamrolled through the entire NBA? Wow, what a joke. Lebron is an absolute FORCE on BOTH ends of the court. What can Melo do other than score? And if his shot’s not on, we see him bricking 30 shots a game like he’s been doing this playoffs. Wow, revoke this guy’s right to vote already.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    GCOAT.

  • LeBron James

    I hate you! They are so nice #crying

  • EJ

    How can you tell how good a team that doesn’t exist would do? There really isn’t any way to measure how good a basketball player is, so this is all trivial.

  • Gaurav Pokharel

    Exactly….Lebron is a two way player, Melo is not. I mean, this season has been all Lebron from beginning to end, including leading his team to 27 straight wins. What an idiot.

  • http://www.facebook.com/chris.callihan1 Chris Callihan

    Hypothetical situations do not prove a point

  • Josias Johnson

    Not really. Look at LeBron’s game. Compare it to Melo’s. LeBron as a great all-around player would make the other Knicks better in a way that Melo doesn’t. Melo wouldn’t make Wade or Bosh or any other Heat player better like LeBron does. He hasn’t done it in Denver or NY.

  • http://www.facebook.com/chris.callihan1 Chris Callihan

    3.3 3 attempts per game vs. 4.1, fewer attempts per game for lebron, but less than a shot per game difference. But yes, if anyone should have gotten a first place other than Lebron, it’s KD hands down

  • http://www.facebook.com/chris.callihan1 Chris Callihan

    Your “rules” were common sense to anyone who had watched him play for years, but yes, he did master them

  • JetSkiJohnson

    duh but we were speaking hypothetically so whats your point?

  • robb

    there are people who try to look smarter by going against the majority, but Gary Washburn, your pick made you look DUMB AS F*CK

  • EJ

    But you can’t actually measure how much a player helps a team, so it’s all speculation. Sure you can watch games and analyze stats, but you can’t actually tell what would happen if 2 players switched teams. It’s just over-analytical.

  • shockexchange

    The Theory of Relativity is also “common sense,” especially after someone devised a formula for it.

  • jmm

    Well, yeah. That’s what opinions about sports players are. This clearly isn’t a world shattering debate about the future of our planet. I’m merely proposing a method of comparison.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    well this is true, but do we actually need something concrete to tell us LeBron would make the Knicks better, while Melo wouldn’t do so for the Heat? Can you really even speculate that this may not be true, while actually believing it?

  • pposse

    Are the Knicks Championship contenders with Melo ? – Yes

    Are the Heat Championship contenders w/out Lebron? – Yes

  • pposse

    “they have a really hard time getting ot the finals” – thats a classic line. In reality what your saying is that the Heat are still a championship contender with or w/out Lebron. Thank you.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    LOL. contend means chance to win.

  • Ben Ireland

    I agree with almost all you said, except I still think the Heat are contenders minus LeBron. If you just took LeBron outta the equation, and say he’s on no team, the Heat would still be favourites in the East, D-Wade would put up much better numbers (albeit in a much shorter career) and I think they’d have a shot. It’d be alot fairer than now since Westbrook’s hurt too, and the Spurs are banged up. But that’s a hypothetical… Clearly, LeBron was the MVP, I don’t think you can argue it at all.

  • pposse

    The Heat are championship contenders w/out Lebron. I fail to see how a team with Wade and Bosh are not considered championship contenders. The Knicks matchup very well imo with all remaining teams in the west. They don’t matchup well against the Pacers and Heat.

  • Ben Ireland

    He did stand up and state his case, that’s what’s written up there…

  • spit hot fiyah

    LAL + Kobe a couple of games away from lottery

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i don’t think Miami without LeBron could beat San Antonio, or Memphis in a series. They could beat Oklahoma City, but I don’t think without Westbrook they can beat the Spurs either.
    .
    And the Spurs aren’t beat up. THey are damn healthy actually.

  • http://twitter.com/1993Freckles Conor O’Hara

    LeBron James makes neither Dwyane Wade nor Chris Bosh better basketball players through his own accord. The hyperbole!

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    The Knicks can’t beat the Heat. And they probably can’t beat the Pacers. – That would make them not contenders for the championship.

    .

    I fail to see how Miami remains as good as they are without LeBron. LeBron leads that team in points, rebounds, assists, and shooting %. Without him, they are immediately the smallest team in the playoffs. And the versatility that makes them soooo good immediately disappears. I don’t see how you can beat the Spurs or Grizzlies that way.

  • LakeShow

    I get it… they weren’t great, but really? 7th seed in the West is close to lottery?…

    But I guess kick us when were down, cause the Lakers be coming strong next year :)

  • Josias Johnson

    Haven’t watched a Heat game in 3 seasons? I get it.

  • pposse

    Knicks don’t look like they can beat the Pacers or Heat, but i still say they can beat all teams in the west that are left right now.

    Lebron is the man no doubt, but Wade and Bosh alone are a championship core. A good GM would find pieces around those two guys to build a solid contender for years. I never said they would be as good as they are right now they are steam rolling teams right now.

  • http://twitter.com/1993Freckles Conor O’Hara

    “LeBron would have Tyson Chandler involved offensively besides rebounding misses and getting putbacks and catching alley oops.”

    That is literally all that Chandler is capable of, offensively. What would James do with him, exactly? Bless him with the gift of a jumpshot because of his magical powers? The hyperbole is rampant.

    James is in his prime, but don’t exaggerate his talents.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    what are you speculating about? if the Knicks can’t beat ANY team they have to face to win a championship then they aren’t a contender. The Knicks can’t beat the Heat. I don’t think it’s possible if both teams are healthy. SO they aren’t contenders.
    .
    And why are you talking about what a good GM would do? Nobody is talking about if you built a team around Wade and Bosh. It’s about if you just straight up took LeBron off the Heat. vs if you straight up took Melo off the KNicks.

  • RKJ92

    How are you this dumb? in what WORLD are the Knicks Championship contenders, and the Heat without their BEST player, a guy who changes the course of games championship contenders!? LOL.. people like you need to get an internship under Skip Bayless.

  • pposse

    so if the knicks beat the pacers this rd are they considered championship contenders then? or is a contender only the two teams that actually make it to the NBA championship, or is it good enough to be competing for a conference championship?

  • http://twitter.com/1993Freckles Conor O’Hara

    What exactly can Wade do better now than he could before James joined the Heat? He was an NBA Finals MVP ffs, are you kidding me?

    List actual things that Wade/Bosh excel at now which they did not before James arrived in Miami. Go.

  • Iggi Vasquez

    WOW!! That’s well said. Perfect..

  • pposse

    they are the #2 seed in the East, they beat the Heat a fair amount of times in the regular season and the won a playoff series. How can you not consider them a contender? To be in contention, doesn’t mean you have to win it, its not a declaration of fact. You are a Lebron stan, anyone who argues anything against Lebron and his stacked Heat team is Skip Bayless to you.

    What your saying then is that the Lebron James led Cavs team were not championship contenders…besides that one yr they got there and got swept. All other Cavs teams that made it to the playoffs and won playoff rds weren’t in contention for the ship i get it. I know what i say, and I mean what i say dummy. So when i call you a dummy, i mean your a dummy!

  • K_HOLIDAY

    I’m surprised this is even a debate right now. Lebron was hands down the most valuable player of the league this season. Melo had his moments, but Lebron was a force night in and night out on the best team in the league. Take away the last 6 or so games of the season when Melo went on a scoring rampage and that lone vote for him would’ve never happened.

  • Josias Johnson

    LeBron operating more in the post this season lets Wade and Bosh do what they do best. It started last season but got even better this season. Wade is free on the perimeter. Or he can go to the post and LeBron can move to the perimeter. Bosh gets to step out and take those jumpshots he likes to take. Wade shot 52% from the field this season. Bosh shot 54%. Who do you think that’s because of? Mario Chalmers?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    a contender is a team that can win the title.
    .
    do you really think the Knicks can win a title right now?

  • Josias Johnson

    In 2007-2008, probably Chris Paul’s best season this far, Tyson averaged 12 and 12. He could do the same with LeBron.

  • pposse

    I do, but they have to get lucky against Miami. I think the Knicks can beat all remaining teams that are left in the playoffs in a seven game series. I’m not concerning myself about what teams they have to beat first to get to the championship. I did say the Pacers look better, but that series is a toss up. The reality as i see it is that all teams remaining other than the Warriors and maybe the Thunder have just as good a shot as any other team that are left, OUTSIDE of Miami; MIami are the favorites and should win, most of the teams left are in contention.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    well that’s your opinion. can’t fight that.
    .
    still, would you rather be just in contention, or the heavy favorite?
    .
    one player is the difference in that distinction. And it sure as sh*t isn’t Carmelo.

  • Dagger

    Well, I’m not sure if Lebron makes them better players – the idea that a star player makes his teammates better is generally sketchy/hard to quantify – but his presence certainly helps Wade and Bosh be more efficient scorers.

  • pposse

    Lebron is clear cut MVP, there is no logical explanation for Carmello getting a first place vote. Id rather be the favorite

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    ok, as long as we are both on that page.

  • http://twitter.com/1993Freckles Conor O’Hara

    So because their field goal percentage increases, so does their talent, harmoniously? How can you possibly believe/argue that? It’s incredible to me that people actually believe that.

  • Josias Johnson

    Making someone better doesn’t exactly mean making them more talented. Are you unaware of what making teammates better means? Jordan didn’t make his teammates more talented. No player has made any teammate more talented. Not Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Isiah Thomas, etc. If that was what the phrase “making teammates better” means, then no one would qualify. What they did was making them look better than they were and would have been without them. There’s a reason why the Cavs went from 66 wins to 19 with basically the same team they had just without LeBron. He makes his teammates look better than they are. And for Wade (superstar) and Bosh (star) he makes it easier for them to do what they do and not work as hard to do it.

  • Josias Johnson

    In my opinion, making them more efficient makes them better. Years from now when people look at Wade’s stats, they’ll look at his FG% and judge the kind of season he had based on how well he shot among other things. The conversation that some have had about Wade and Kobe over the past 5 seasons and who’s been better includes the FG% stat.

  • EJ

    But if we can’t use something concrete measure how good/valuable a player is, then there’s really no point in judging players like this.

    You can know who wins the most championships, who scores the most points and so on, those are real things. Claiming that a team would do better if they switched some 2 players is not real. I don’t think having lots of MVPs makes someone a good player, and I don’t think it makes sense to get upset at someone for voting for Melo on this, cause it’s not real.

    You can say that Lebron gets more assists, rebounds, wins etc. than Carmelo, but you can’t really say that he’s the more valuable player, or better. That’s just pointless speculation. People find it entertaining, but sometimes take it too seriously.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    We have plenty of stats that show how much better one player is then another. And we have eyes.

    .

    Use both of those things.

    .

    “You can say that Lebron gets more assists, rebounds, wins etc. than Carmelo, but you can’t really say that he’s the more valuable player, or better. That’s just pointless speculation. People find it entertaining, but sometimes take it too seriously.”

    - The people voting, are supposed to have a logical and educated reason for voting how they vote.

    — People get upset when the people with those votes show an inability to use reason.
    .
    We all know it’s trivial, and ultimately pointless.
    .
    And we can say LeBron is more valuable and better.
    .
    Actually the better thing isn’t even a debate. If you think we can’t say LeBron is better than Carmelo then you are an idiot.
    .
    And i say that honestly, not as an insult.

  • spit hot fiyah

    yes, the 7th seed was like 2 games away from the lottery and the lakers were a lottery team for most of the year when kobe was playing.

    i’m not a laker hater, i just wrote that in response to drig’s comment, his reasoning (which i don’t disagree with) doesn’t apply to this years lakers with regards to kobe

  • Josias Johnson

    What’s real is how they’ve played throughout their careers. You really can’t look at how LeBron plays compared to how Melo plays and see that the Knicks would be better with LeBron than the Heat would be with Melo? Having a bunch of MVPs doesn’t make someone a good player? What exactly does that mean?

  • Kadavour

    this is NOT the argument that answer’s Conor’s question.

  • Kadavour

    i’m glad someone finally challenged this long held notion that players make others better on the floor during the game. Improvements happen in practice. I.E. Observing a guy’s work ethic and preparation and emulating their good habits. that’s where players realize gains.

    Otherwise, there simply does not exist a pass in basketball that would affect my ability to score on a defender… there are passes that hit you at the perfect height, or the dime that hits you right in stride, but receiving that pass or the passers willingness to throw it has NO effect on a player’s ABILITY to score.

    If that was true then guys would kill to play will Andre Miller.

  • EJ

    You can’t measure goodness. I know everyone has some kind of an intuitive idea of what goodness is, but that is subjective, so it’s not possible to measure it. It’s kind of like arguing what music is good and what is not, you just can’t criticize people for not thinking like you do on a subjective matter.

    Stats tell you how many points a player scores, not how good he is. I know this is mundane, but I study physics so I’m kind of uptight about how to measure things.

  • Josias Johnson

    Actually, it IS. I explained what making teammates better really is and what it’s not (which is what he said it was). So I answered the question. If you don’t think that’s the argument to answer the question, then what is?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    This is a sport. With winning and losing. It’s not even kind of like music. You can’t measure EXACTLY how good a player is. But you can show that, without a doubt in the world, LeBron is better than Carmelo. That is unarguable. Living in fantasy land isn’t gonna change that buddy.

  • Kadavour

    KD played to protect those percentages this year (as evidenced by his playoff numbers). These dudes act like they’re not protecting their legacies game in and game out.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i am a little confused by what you are referring to at the start of this comment….admittedly i am pretty distracted right now, care to elaborate?

  • Josias Johnson

    I’m pretty sure guys love playing with Andre Miller because of how well he passes the ball and sets them up. George Karl brought JaVale McGee off the bench so that he could play on the 2nd unit with Andre Miller, why? Because he played better with him than with Ty Lawson and the others in the 1st unit. People talked about how well Ray Allen would play with LeBron and Wade because he’d get a lot of open looks.

    It’s not about giving a player the ability to score, it’s about giving them the opportunity to be more effective with their ability. Making guys better has nothing to do with improving their skills. LeBron hasn’t made Ray Allen a better shooter just as Rondo didn’t. But what good is having the ability to shoot if you’re not going to get a pass that will give you a chance to shoot instead of having guys lock you up because you don’t get the passes where you need them? You don’t have to be Socrates to figure out that a player can’t make another player more talented or skilled during a game. Everyone knows that. You misunderstand what people mean when they talk about players making others better.

  • Sergio

    I dont think Melo should have received a MVP vote, but I do think Miami would be a contender even without Lebron. They have 2 top 15 players, and the best supporting cast in the league.

  • http://twitter.com/1993Freckles Conor O’Hara

    “There’s a reason why the Cavs went from 66 wins to 19 with basically the same team they had just without LeBron.” Yes, it’s known as “half of the team had to be called up from the D-League because injuries wiped them out when they were fighting for 7th and proving potential revisionists like yourself wrong.”

    Players improve themselves and adapt to their respective systems. Does James, alone, make the shots for Bosh and Wade and Allen and Battier? No, they all provide lanes for each other. James has been surrounded by good shooters for the majority of his career and those threats, combined with his playmaking instincts, are what create lanes for everyone. Not just him.

    Miami’s spacing, which leads to closer shots for James/Wade/Bosh, isn’t catalyzed by the former. If not for the confluence of talent, teams would simply zone Miami into oblivion.

    He is MVP, deservingly and unquestionably, but to subject others’ individual sacrifices as devices of James’ talent is a joke.

  • http://twitter.com/trueballer4lif1 Melvin flynt

    Lbj 2 the world! – hi haters..

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Without LeBron they don’t have a power forward. Shane Battier can only do what he does because of LeBron. (or the team doesn’t have a Center). And without LeBron, Mario Chalmers would have to make more decisions.
    .
    I just don’t see it, not that i am certain or anything like that, i just don’t agree.

  • KBM

    “I don’t think having lots of MVPs makes someone a good player”

    You’re wrong.

  • Josias Johnson

    You sound silly trying to make an argument that goes against what these guys have said themselves. Why did Wade and Bosh sacrifice? Why did Wade tell LeBron to take over the team and lead? Wade’s not a fool. If LeBron got to the Finals passing to Boobie Gibson and Drew Gooden, he’d win one passing to Wade and Bosh. He knew that LeBron taking over would give them the best chance to win a championship. Him taking over the team would take the team in the best direction it could go in because of his style of play. It would be stupid to make him sacrifice instead of Wade and Bosh because the way he plays allows others around him to play their best. If guys couldn’t put teammates in position to be successful on the floor, which is what people mean when they talk about players making each other better, then Wade could have just kept trying to score 30 a night regardless of what LeBron did.
    LeBron and the shooters around him create lanes for everyone? Take away LeBron and you have a bunch of shooters with no one to pass it to them.

    It doesn’t take a genius to understand that LeBron doesn’t make shots for his teammates, let’s not be stupid here. You don’t understand what people mean when they talk about guys who make their teammates better. If it didn’t exist at all in the way that people talk about it, then there would be no difference in how people see LeBron and Melo/Kobe/KD. The biggest thing that separates him is his passing ability. Why do people talk so much about his passing ability? Because it allows his teammates to be involved in the game and showcase their skills.

  • coronel

    Everyone realizes it’s a personal opinion right ?, how can an opinion be right or wrong ?

  • Blakos
  • Blakos

    Holes in his reasoning, but he makes some valid points

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk
  • The Seed

    Can’t wait for the choke to come!!! Go Bulls in 6.

  • Josias Johnson

    Unbelievable.

  • danpowers

    i also think that the heat would be contenders without lebron, they actually would be just with the difference that theyd be on the same level with other contenders.
    with lebron on the team and the rest of the bunch mostly healthy the heats title chances are almost 100%.
    again, yes they would be contenders without lebron james, if you took him out of the team now. BUT, miami wouldnt have the spirit, players, system, confidence, maybe even staff, etc… if lebron james wouldve never went there. sure, riley is the major part here but that team wouldnt be close to where it is without lebron james. if james wouldve never been a heat or on that team, that squad wouldnt be even close to where it is today and then also not a contender.

  • http://twitter.com/1993Freckles Conor O’Hara

    “LeBron and the shooters around him create lanes for everyone? Take away LeBron and you have a bunch of shooters with no one to pass it to them.”

    Except for Bosh and Wade…

    “If it didn’t exist at all in the way that people talk about it, then there would be no difference in how people see LeBron and Melo/Kobe/KD.”

    Do you know how it’s evident you don’t understand the game? Bryant and his Lakers teams have won five championships since he entered the League. Not two, not three: five. To list Kobe Bryant with Carmelo Anthony, comparatively, as players who create with/for teammates torpedoes the entirety of your supposedly objective argument.

    That you argue Miami’s success is relative to James and James alone is hilarious. I suppose you were a Cleveland fan before July 1st, 2010?

  • Matt

    You can actually, it is called advanced statistics

  • Josias Johnson

    Bosh and Wade don’t have the vision or passing ability LeBron has.

    Kobe Bryant played with a guy named Shaq for 3 of those titles. And he played with a man named Pau Gasol for the next 2. With Lamar Odom as 6th man of the Year one season. The last of which was 3 seasons ago. He is now a pure scorer. That’s why I listed him with Melo and KD. You have a hard time reading? I didn’t say he, Melo and KD were creators. I contrasted them with LeBron who is a creator. I said people talk about LeBron differently than they do KD/Kobe/Melo for a reason. There’s a difference between those three and him. “Difference” is the key word there.

    James makes the Heat go. It’s really easy to see this unless you just haven’t watched them play which seems to be the case by what you’ve been saying. Those lineups they play with that have Battier at the 4 and Bosh at the 5…they can do that because of LeBron. I didn’t say their success is 100% because of him or that their success is relative to him alone. But he’s the main factor. What they do offensively they can only do because of him.

  • http://twitter.com/1993Freckles Conor O’Hara

    “Bosh and Wade don’t have the vision or passing ability LeBron has.”

    Wade doesn’t, eh? Man, I don’t know else to say.

    “You have a hard time reading? I didn’t say he, Melo and KD were creators.”

    No, but you have a hard time seeing. He led the League in APG amongst shooting guards and Phil Jackson said that his playmaking was the greatest of any player he coached and that was when Jackson hated Kobe.

    “James makes the Heat go.”

    As do Wade and Bosh and Battier and Allen.

    I’m done. You don’t understand basketball, Josias.

  • Drig

    Team faced more adversity. Stronger conference.

  • Drig

    True. The guys who truly don’t give a damn about how their percentages look are JR, Russ, Kobe and other score-first and score them at all costs mentality guys.

  • Drig

    The guy who created the most points for his team from his all-round play on O : 1. LBJ – 42 ppg. 2. Kobe – 41 ppg

    He can’t play good D for large portions of the game. And if you see the load he carried this season, you’d understand why he couldn’t do it.

    Anyways, Kobe’s not just a pure scorer. A pure scorer doesn’t flirt with triple doubles whenever he feels like it.

  • Josias Johnson

    You seriously believe Wade is as good a passer as LeBron James? Dude people compare to Magic Johnson? Wow. That says everything.

  • Josias Johnson

    Nah, Kobe doesn’t flirt with triple doubles when he feels like it. Especially not at this point in his career. He went 4 seasons (2005-2009) without getting one…so what, he just didn’t feel like it during that time? LeBron has gotten multiple triple doubles each season since 2005. 45 triple doubles for him (8 in the playoffs) compared to Kobe’s 19 (none in the playoffs).

    Let’s say I agree with you that he’s not just a pure scorer right now (which I don’t). That would beg the question, why doesn’t he feel like going for triple doubles more than just a few games a season? A true playmaker doesn’t just pass to teammates when he feels like it. As for the argument about him having to carry the load offensively, this was the first season in the last couple of years where he did actually have to do a lot on offense with the injuries the Lakers had. Past few seasons he chose to do it but it wasn’t really necessary.

  • Guest

    Dwyane Wade, as a shooting guard, has an obligation to score.

    James, as a small forward, has an obligation to be a playmaker.

    You said Wade doesn’t have James’ vision. How did you come to that conclusion? Because he averages less assists? Wade was Miami’s point guard for years, but no more so it isn’t exemplified as readily. Watch the game instead of reading about it.

  • http://twitter.com/1993Freckles Conor O’Hara

    So, LeBron has license to “feel” like taking control of his team’s offence, but Kobe doesn’t? Good. Grief. Man.

    Think before you express.

  • Josias Johnson

    Yeah, small forwards are supposed to be playmakers. Which is why there was only one small forward in the top 25 (number 11) this season in assists…guess who that was.

    Yeah, I read stat sheets, look at Wade’s assists and then conclude that he doesn’t have the same vision LeBron does. Not like I’ve been watching them both since Wade was at Marquette and LeBron was in high school. Refresh my memory, was it Wade or LeBron who had that Nike commercial in their rookie season that had them passing the ball to members of a church choir? Which one was compared to Magic Johnson? I guess all those folks who made those comparisons just read stat sheets too, huh? Which one was talked about as being able to maybe average a triple double after they signed with the Heat in 2010? I hope you know how foolish you sound.

  • Josias Johnson

    When LeBron takes over an offense, his teammates touch the ball and have chances to score. When Kobe takes over, chances are great he’s shooting.

    Look at the full statline from some of his 50 point games…56, 10 and 5….52, 7 and 7…51, 5 and 8…51, 8 and 9…50, 8 and 10…52, 10 and 11. Compare to Kobe’s highest scoring games…81, 6 and 2…65, 7 and 3…62, 8 and 0…61, 0 and 3…Meaning when LeBron goes on a scoring tear, his teammates are still involved. More often than not, when Kobe scores a lot, his teammates are spectators. You’re done dude.

  • http://twitter.com/1993Freckles Conor O’Hara

    It means Kobe’s teammates are grabbing rebounds and getting assists. Also known as “teammates fulfilling their roles”.

    What you just listed absolutely encompasses James’ selfishness. Great MVP air ball by LeBron tonight, btw!

  • Matt

    And that’s not to even mention the difference in how many wins the Knicks and the Heat had. Were the Knicks a close second seed? Heck no.

  • Guest

    Wait, so Kobe can get triple doubles when he wants…but now you say getting assists and rebounds is his teammate’s role to fulfill, not his…well, which is it? Can’t be both.

    The fact that you mentioned an airball tonight by LeBron, as if that proves something, shows exactly how idiotic you are.

    How do those statlines show LeBron’s selfishness? Do you think before you type or not? Either way, you’ve made some pretty weak arguments.

  • Josias Johnson

    The fact that you mentioned an airball tonight by LeBron, as if that proves something, shows exactly how idiotic you are.

    How do those statlines show LeBron’s selfishness? Do you think before you type or not? Did you see the assists in those statlines or what? Either way, you’ve made some pretty weak arguments. At this point, you sound like a child.

  • http://twitter.com/1993Freckles Conor O’Hara

    “Wait, so Kobe can get triple doubles when he wants…but now you say getting assists and rebounds is his teammate’s role to fulfill, not his…well, which is it? Can’t be both.”

    When did I argue that, at any point? For your brain:

    http://www.cookie.com/kids/stories/viewallstories.html

    Kobe plays to score points to a selfish degree which is extremely unnecessary some nights. But to watch LeBron James concede shots to lesser players when he can easily take it to the cup (if the defender isn’t shading his weak handle) and steal rebounds from teammates is to acknowledge the very definition of basketball narcissism: “padding one’s statline”. You can’t see that because you’ve got your Miami Heat snapback covering your eyes after they were manhandled by one of the most depleted teams in the League tonight (aided in no small part by your boy missing twice during the waning moments).

    It’s alright, buddy, Miami’s cheerleading corps will eventually blow their whistles increasingly in the direction of Robinson and Butler and Noah if this keeps up.

    PS

    ‘Hope you actually learn critical analysis in school at some point. Or happen upon common sense.

  • http://twitter.com/1993Freckles Conor O’Hara

    Did you just argue reality using a fictional commercial as evidence? LMAO

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN9v3TPKqhA

    And I hope you know that continually trying to convince yourself that I’m foolish won’t make it any less wrong, champ.

  • pposse

    thank u, please keep going

  • pposse

    can you write a blog please? i would comment on this site just to paste the url

  • Matt

    A very good article written by Zach Lowe for things that Washburn did not consider using WASHBURN’S own reasoning:

    http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/61085/unanimous-animus-the-lebron-james-mvp-vote-and-debunking-the-myths-of-value

  • Mars

    Harden was as legit as LeBron this year. But this was CP3′s year again. Again, Just like Jordan, LeBron is beginning to overshadow the other elite superstars of the league, and he probably has another 5-7 years to dominate. SMH. Haters gon hate.

  • Mars

    Zyrunas Illgauskas was an all-star. Boobie Gibson was Mario Chambers. Vareajo was an all-star. Mo Williams got bank. David West had some Gloria smh….I think LeBron makes players better. I dunno, call me crazy.

  • Mars

    Say, you’re going to a club, right?… And you have two friends who got game. They be pulling girls left and right. I mean individually they get their fair share. But when y’all all go out together (Olympics), it comes so naturally that you can’t help but think of leaving the friends you have (Cavaliers), because when you go to the club with them, you always pulls all the girls and they pull none. Zero. You say it’s ok, I like pulling all they girls, I can share. But in the back of your mind your thinking, but when I go out with D & C, we’re like the Beatles. And as an added bonus one of those friends (D) lives in literally a hotbed of clubs and hot women. You quickly realize that while you don’t mind getting all the girls, you’d much rather play the drums than be lead singer, and you switch your crew. Now when yall go out, the crew can bring in whoever (ray ray, birdman, rashard) and they still pull girls. And your two friends who pulled a lot of girls themselves, they just kick back and relax because now they have you to take the blaim if you have a bad night at the club. It never happens tho because somehow you all are almost 60% efficient at getting girls.

  • Kadavour

    Let the church say “Amen”

  • Kadavour

    Thus began LeBron’s marketing machine. Bernie Mac (rest is soul) hailed him “The King” and they cast him in stark contrast with their previous messiah (by then, Colorado Kobe)…Fast forward to a summer in 2008 when LeBron and his 2003 and later contemporaries got an opportunity to spend a summer playing with the guy who gave himself nicknames. That was the BEST thing that could have happened to LeBron, Melo et al…Kobe made those guys better. They all changed after that summer.

  • Kadavour

    how? Qualify it.

  • Kadavour

    kill yo self

  • http://www.facebook.com/OMGitsKINGDAVID Kinq David II

    suprised? who remembers when they jerk Melo on ROY in 2004?…………

  • danpowers

    i think so, too that the knicks without melo are worse than the heat without lebron. but, if you look at it by how much better on the other hand a team is… with melo the knicks are an underdog contender at best. the heat with lebron james are a log for the championship. james’ contribution exceeds any other players’ contribution by far and he does that consistently.

  • pposse

    Noah and Butler took the rules, created a binder, a hardcover and read them for breakfast lunch and dinner. Deng was also spotted reading the Rules in his hospital bed. Kirk and Taj framed the Rules in their house. They are all grateful.

  • http://basketball-performance.com/ Basketball Tips

    wow this discussion has gone longer than I’ve imagined.

  • http://www.facebook.com/chris.callihan1 Chris Callihan

    touché

  • http://www.facebook.com/chris.callihan1 Chris Callihan

    Agreed

  • shockexchange

    Them boys “sonned” LeBron. The Shock Exchange is in a state of shock.

  • pposse

    look what you done did, the state of shock you are in might just turn into full paralysis after tomorrow night! don’t trip tho, your work with the rules will never be forgotten; if the bulls win a championship this season im going to petition everyone here in slam and Chicago to get a ring made for you.

  • pposse

    on a serious note, Lebron did get sonned last night. It was awesome, we looked like the Boston Celtics or the Orlando Magic and he looked like he was still on the Cavs. People keep talking about how Miami was missing open shots, screw that we played our style of ball and Noah opened up his repertoire and showed the world his left hand, his coast to coast abilities; that man is ridiculous right now! and Nate showed up in the cut and had to regulate! I swear if some how some way we get passed the Heat i might just have to quit my job in DC.

  • Mars

    Jumbo Fisher

  • Drig

    I said flirt with triple doubles. I didn’t say he’d get triple doubles. Off the top of my head, I can say he missed 4 triple doubles this season just by a whisker. A rebound here or an assist there. And that has happened many times. I didn’t say he would have more triple doubles than LBJ so quit making this a comparison lol.

    He’s a pure offensive player. He can pass it well and we saw it this season. Not sure why it’s hard to see it. It’s not like I’m telling you to believe Kobe’s been a beast on D lol.

    Also, you lost all credibility when you said this is the first season he has been actually forced to carry the load for the team. Tell me which other great shooter has the team had without Kobe the last 2 years? Pau…….and??

    LAL had no perimeter threat outside of Kobe. It’s why they signed Nash even if he can’t create for himself anymore. Because he’s a better spot up shooter on one leg than the entire cast of comedic “shooters” LAL has had the last few years.

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