Avery Johnson: Kobe Bryant on Par With Michael Jordan

@JTaylor: I never said Jordan didnt shoot at a higher percentage. MJ had the better numbers in that one statistic. I’m not talking about that at all. But, in terms of total points per total field goal attempt they have just a .0095 difference. That is also a fact. That is where you take how many total points a guy scored (FTs and FGs) and divided by the total amount of FGs they attempted. To me this is the most true measure of efficency because it accounts for all scoring. Am I wrong? Please, tell me how two players that have almost the same exact points per shot average are so significantly different in efficiency. Honestly if you can explain that to me, I’d be very interested.

Also, I love how I say that “Every one acts like Jordan shooting at a higher FG% is such an important factor in him being better than Kobe. Well, when you look at their complete numbers it is a fact that they scored with the same efficiency” and your comeback is that MJ had a higher FG percentage. No duh. But, there is more to efficiency that that. Also, let’s not forget that Kobe has higher percentages from the FT line and behind the Arc. Again, Jordan is the GOAT hands down. But, Kobe’s greatness does not need to be belittled because of it.

@jumpman3224 Don’t waste too much of your energy on jtaylor21 – he sees that one number is bigger than the other and makes conclusions with no thoughtful analysis. What you are doing makes a ton of sense. Instead of using eFG% or true shooting percentage% to account for threes and free throws in addition to two pointers, you are saying, “how many shots did a guy take in a game, and how many points did he score from them?”. It doesn’t tell you much about what happened when he didn’t shoot, but if you’re talking about efficiency with your FG attempts, that’s the stat right there. Thanks for sharing the numbers.

@nbk: 1. I’m sorry but the difference of 5% in FG is not very significant. For their careers, Kobe has shot .454 and MJ has shot .497. That means out of every 1,000 shots Jordan made 43 more than Kobe. So out of every 100, he made 4.3 more than Kobe. Which means that out of every 25 shots, Jordan made 1.075 more than Kobe. In a given game if player A takes 25 shots and makes 1 more than player B who also takes 25, no one in their right mind would say that player A was significantly more efficient. So don’t ignore points per FGA and tell me that due to a higher FG% Jordan was that much more efficient. 2. To say that Jordan is better at every single aspect of basketball than Jordan is ingnorant and subjective.

Points per FG attempt would be a good measure, if you looked at it for their primes. The numbers are skewed some by Jordan’s 2 years in washington and 41 and 44% (two career lows, 94-95 is a 30 game season, having little to no effect, regardless it doesn’t help his career numbers) fg percentage. And if you want a full article that outlines how this isn’t even really debatable just click my name.

michael jordan’s CAREER fg% is 3% higher then kobe bryant’s BEST season. And since we all like to compare people by rings, compare their playoff numbers to make this even more obvious

@Hammer…i thought i said he had Defense? my bad..but that still just makes him L.O. with great defense

Yes, but then you’d also be ignoring the opinions of Steve Kerr, B.J. Armstrong who played with MJ, and many other people with first hand experience who have been on the record as saying Kobe’s up there with MJ. Scottie Piipen would tell you differently. But that only serves the point, Kobe v MJ is very debatable, and is close enough to be debatable. This is not “no contest”.

oh and lets not forget the most important thing, michael has a better winning %. and too top it off, has been the best player on every single team he has ever played on. In order for Kobe to match Michael in terms of playoff greatness he will need to win 4 more titles, and get finals MVP in every single one. While averaging over 30 – and never being taken to 7 games.

@nbk: First off, I never said Kobe was better. So don’t put words in my mouth or incinuate that I said anything different. You pointed out that shooting is only one aspect of the game. Well, no duh. This all started out because I was talking about scoring efficency and just that. Second, let’s not lie stats are relative. Certainly important, but any can be debated. For example, Jordan averaged more rebounds but he played the majority of his career without a dominate rebounder so does that really make him a better rebounder? Also, the Lakers during Kobe’s 14 years have a higher winning percentage than Jordan’s Bulls and Wizards. So, the winning percentage is an outright lie. Also, I’d like to point out that Kobe has been named all-nba and all-defense more times than MJ and been in the finals more. So yes, there is some merit to such a debate. Finally, yes Kobe has been the best players on the Lakers for the last two seasons. Don’t fool yourself. Everyone seems to forget that most analysts had Kobe as the MVP of that series going into game 7 win or llose. Yeah maybe Kobe got some numbers in losses, but Gasol was bad in a couple of the wins (Game 3 – 13 and 10 on 45.5% and Game 6 – 17 points on 43%).

I agree with the Avery being way more qualified than any and all of us. Regardless of who you really are Philo, Avery still has you by a… coaching/player career.

I said majority. I’ll certainly conceed Rodman was a dominant rebounder and Oakley was a top notch one. But combined Jordan only played 6 out of 14 seasons with those guys. HoGrant was never a dominant rebounder. Not in the way that Shaq or Gasol are. Also, I dont see why it matters that Kobe career started four years earlier than MJ’s? Going into this year they’ve played the same number of total seasons. Anyways, I’m done with this very debatable topic for the day, enjoy your evening.

Kobe has more years as a younger player. A longer physical prime. And Horace averaged the same number of rebounds as gasol (who’s only been with Kobe 3 years) It’s redundant either way, Jordan was better in every effective part of the game aside from shooting and the difference there was more then made up for by jordans relentless attacking of the rim while shooting a higher % and shooting more free throw attempts thus it’s not debatable who’s better.

It is debatable.

Jordan was much more marketable than Kobe is.

Kobe is legit but MJ is well MJ.. to say Kobe’s competition is greater than MJ’s is a bit misguided. Those bad boys were pretty tough, The Celtics original Big 3 not to mention the other Eastern conf teams that were pretty good…then he had to beat on Magic and a host of Western teams that were also legit. Not many of todays “stars” would have lasted against Those Pistons teams that put a body and bat on players. lol. WZUP Philosopher..

Hey hey my friend..It’s been a while but I couldn’t resist messing with this one. lol. Have a great holiday SLAM Nation!!

NBK, let’s not pretend Charles Oakley was a dominant rebounder in his years with the Bulls. It wasn’t until he went to New York that he started to become a great rebounder and defensive power forward. I agree with pretty much everything else you’ve said so far though. Kobe has a better regular season winning percentage because he was on much better teams early in his career. Kobe, early in his career played with Shaquille O’Neal. The next best player Jordan played with early on was Orlando Woolridge. Decent scorer and athlete but by no means a great player. @Tony…man, I don’t know where to go with you. I’ll correct you in one area though. Magic wasn’t hurt for the Finals against the Bulls. Byron Scott was but James Worthy was the other player injured and yes that was a significant loss for sure. I don’t think it changes the outcome of that series though. Which players has Kobe been confronted with that were so much better than what Jordan was? You may have forgotten that Chicago steamrolled the Pistons on their way to the Finals. That wasn’t an old team either. Maybe the Bulls and Lakers were on the decline but it’s not like the Lakers went through anybody that great. The first three teams the Bulls beat (Lakers, Blazers, and Suns) would have beaten the teams the Lakers beat in their first 3Peat. I mean come on. The Nets, Pacers, and Pistons? Maybe the Pistons give a good fight and maybe they beat one of those teams but not the Nets and Lakers. Individually, what has Kobe done that Michael hasn’t? I’m not even going to bother with the “Kobe is the best because of skill, talent and hard work.” It sounds like you’re saying Michael didn’t work hard and I hate to say it to you but Michael’s work ethic and intensity were legendary as well. If you think Kobe is the second best in game Highlight Reel, then you may want to log onto YouTube and sit back for a couple hours. You’re obviously not old enough to remember what MJ did throughout his career

Continued: It’s easy for people to forget Jordan was hated his first 7 to 8 years and the sports columnist’s said he was a ball hog and only cared of scoring titles!!! Like I said JORDAN legacy will never be questioned because of the shoe line with Nike—Air Jordan’s. That’s all the kids know and knew back then. You could mix, Kobe, LeBron, Durant, Doc J, Dominique and Vince Carter, and make a player with unlimited everything and these SADISTIC Jordan fans will argue you down that he’s the greatest. Is he (f’n) some of you guys??? The man is not better than KOBE as a player: Who’s better? Shooting=Kobe, Ball Handling=Kobe, Free Throws=Kobe, High level of difficulty shots=Kobe, More clutch shots=Kobe, Played under scrutiny and scathing hatred for years and still won=KOBE, Work Ethic-Talent-skill set=Kobe, Use of left hand=Kobe, cross-over to step back=Kobe, Who’s slammed on every center in the NBA today in their damn face–I mean all of them to=Kobe, watch Kobe’s greatest slams/plays video’s and look at the skill and level of difficulty. Jordan used to primarily Jump higher, but had the big hands to allow easier control. KOBE had to do all the stuff with smaller hands which promotes more creativity. Vince is the best Dunker ever, which they also gave Jordan the title of; because nobody can be better than Jordan at doing anything, hear ya’ll haters say it. They robbed a slam dunk contest from Dominique because they couldn’t allow Jordan to lose at the all-star game and in Chicago. Give me a break—-KOBE shouldn’t be able to beat the younger beasts out there like LeBron, Durant, Wade, Anthony and the rest of them. But he is that much better and smarter than the others. Give him the 3 to 4 stolen MVP’s because they couldn’t promote him as the face of the NBA and you would have NASH with 0 and LeBron with maybe one, and that’s questionable. Hell the media is even trying to promote Gasol as the Laker MVP this year, but he started playing like, well Pau Gasol. Jordan took things to another level. KOBE has exceeded that level people, and what’s sick is fans say, he’s got to win two to three more titles, play 10 more years, win without Shaq, Beat the CEltics, Beat LeBron, He’s not the best Laker, he’s got to blah, blah, blah, blah. All he has to do is do the same thing he’s been doing and he’s surpassed JOrdaN already. Just finish his career and retire as KOBE. Jordan used Magic/Bird/Doc as standards and Kobe used Jordan. What ever the case, Kobe cleared that High Jump Bar Folks, Peace—–

@Justin: P.S. When Jordan started winning he faced a Lakers with kareem retired, two main players out of the series, Byron Scott, you may say Worthy, but Magic pulled a Hamstring in that series. Also, he got watered down Detroit/Boston and rudy poots in the finals. Utah/Seattle.

I think we can all agree KOBE has faced much tougher competition. If nothing else just to get out of the stacked Western Conference.

Justin: You name more competitive players than I’m listing here.

LeBron, Wade, Durant, Duncan, Ginobili, Deron Williams, Brandon Roy, Tony Parker, Allen Iverson, Reggie Miller, T Mac, Vince Carter, Malone/Stockton, Nash/Stoudemire, Chris Webber’s Kings, Rudy Gay, Granger from Indiana, (Barkley,Pippen,Drexler, Olojuwon), Dirk/Mavericks, Shaq/Cleveland, Phoenix/Miami, Boston/Big 3, Dwight Howard/Magic, Nets/Kidd etc—may not have been great, but they won the East. To be truthful, I haven’t named about 15 athletic players because they couldn’t even make the playoffs. Just for jokes–Wall, Derrick Rose. You name me that many athletic or great players that Jordan went through. If you mention teams they played when Jordan won, Kobe faced them to. Jordan didn’t face these guys Kobe are going against every damn night though.

i like kobe and all, but he’s just not jordan. more like a poor man’s version of him. avery must be getting blurry vision in his old age. everything he does is less, only maybe practicing. from his shooting % to reb, assist, steals, blocks, etc etc he is worse. he is only about the same with FT%, and pace was about the same during jordan’s era and kobe’s era now. So stats can be compared pretty fairly except for rule changes. lebron’s stats compare closer to jordan’s, but he’s not the same kind of player when you watch them. but just stop comparing kobe to jordan please. give him the respect he deserves. jordan has been immortalized even and his stature will probably never be reached. unless it’s another guard who is like vince carter but with the right head screwed on. vince, kobe, and tmac pretty much share the same talent level, but only kobe had the drive. respect! and i do think players nowadays are probably more athletic than back then, with better training at an earlier age.

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Michael is the greates marketing player the ever played the game. You guys know it was nobody the play the game fast like today you got better teams more competition better players unlike on mj era the only competition he face it was at old detroit piston who beat them 4 years on at road Never beat Boston and Larry bird set the record for most points on playoff but also lose that game on his comeback from baseball lose 4 to 1 against the Orlando magic and shaq has to tell coach that he need Dennis rodmand to get back to finals no he is invincible he is has to play with good players to win so guys don’t get on Kobe and act like the kid is not good he is smarter player than Jordan by far