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Monday, October 21st, 2013 at 12:00 pm  |  335 responses

Top 50: James Harden, no. 5

Welcome Harden to the League’s elite.

by Ben Collins / @oneunderscore__

James Harden is going into this season as the best shooting guard in the NBA and I’ll tell you the three seconds I knew that to be true.

This was three months ago, a month after the season ended, in a sweaty gym with no air conditioning in Willowbrook, CA, at the Drew League. James Harden showed up and scored 35 points. By “showed up,” I mean he sort of casually strutted his way to 35 points. It was like listening to Beyonce sing to the radio in the car. He was not trying to score 35 points. It’s unclear if he was even aware that he was playing basketball. Two weeks later—no joke—he would show up to a game midway through the first quarter and drop 25 points.

This was a game filled with NBA players like Dorrell Wright and DeMar DeRozan (potentially a better streetball player than an NBA player), otherwise horrifyingly talented streetball players (Kwame Alexander, potentially the best dunker in the world), and professionally tall people (Keith Closs, potentially a skyscraper).

His team, The Money Gang, was losing its grip on its double-figure lead in the fourth quarter, so he hit a three with a hand in his face, then appeared to try for the first time, really, by stealing an inbounds pass, which he immediately turned into a wind-up dunk. This was 5 points in three seconds.

The place almost fell to the ground. I mean that. It was that gross and humid in there and everything was made of wood, so we almost all saw something horrible happen because of how unearthly this guy looked when he turned off cruise control. It was like he was saying, “And this is what it’s like when I exert myself.” The other 30 points were the easy way. The game was over at that point.

A few minutes later, he walked off the floor mobbed by about 40 people and changed in a room where no one could get to him. It was a straight up coronation. He came out with giant sunglasses on, as if this would help a 6-5 dude with a 15-inch beard not get recognized, took a picture with a bunch of underprivileged kids and ran out a back door before he had to crowdsurf out of there.

Then he got in a yellow Camaro convertible and booked it up Martin Luther King Blvd. This was some serious Miami Vice s–t right here, but that’s beside the point.

One week later, Kobe showed up to the Drew League, where he’d played and dominated last year, and had to watch from the sidelines because he’d popped his achilles four months earlier.

I know this is all anecdotal. I know these are two fleeting moments. I know this is a false choice—Kobe or Harden. I know there’s Paul George and Dwyane Wade. I know they exist. I know.

But if this didn’t feel like a torch passing, nothing ever will.

We’ll get this out of the way: He has to work on his defense. It’s not optional at this point. He was asked by the Rockets’ coaching staff this summer if he’s up to the challenge of doing that. He gave a three-quarter-hearted yes. He’s not Monta Ellis. He’s pretty good right now already. It’s not a lateral quickness thing. It’s an energy conservation thing for a guy who was sixth in the NBA in minutes last year. But it’s a real thing, and it needs to get fixed.

It’s still not enough to rank him any lower than any other shooting guard on this list. He was fifth in the League in scoring. He dragged a team to the Playoffs (plus two Playoff wins)—a team that did not have a starting power forward—and wound up playing better when it didn’t have its starting point guard. This usually means your team is a little headless and has huge problems, like when the Mavericks dragged Mike James out of a Bingo Night and started him for the final two months of last season, or when the Sacramento Kings do anything at all. For the Rockets, it was because they didn’t truly know how good this guy was and everyone was adapting to this new reality.

Here’s the new reality: James Harden is the best shooting guard in the NBA. This came as a great shock to Dwyane Wade, who played 69 games last regular season and gets to feed off of the doubles and attention that LeBron James commands instead of the free throws and hair gel of Chandler Parsons, but Harden and Wade wasn’t even a discussion last year after December.

Still, Kevin Durant won’t be drinking Gatorade anymore because of The New Reality.

This is the other issue with The New Reality: This team is going to get successful. Fast. It might get successful to the tune of 55-or-so wins and a 3-seed. A lot of it is going to be attributed to Dwight Howard.

Dwight Howard is very good at basketball. Dwight Howard will probably deserve a lot of that credit.

But this is James Harden’s team. This is becoming James Harden’s league.

Sometimes he looks sleepy out there. We know. Sometimes he plays like Beyonce singing “Wrecking Ball” on the way to the supermarket. We know. Maybe it’s the beard. Maybe it’s the defense. That needs help. We know.

But say it with me: James Harden is the best shooting guard in the NBA right now. Like it or not. Drink the Gatorade or not. This is The New Reality.

Where should James Harden rank in the SLAM Top 50?

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SLAMonline Top 50 Players 2013
Rank Player Team Position Pos. Rank
50 Monta Ellis Mavs SG 5
49 Luol Deng Bulls SF 10
48 Ricky Rubio TWolves PG 14
47 Greg Monroe Pistons PF 12
46 Kawhi Leonard Spurs SF 9
45 Mike Conley Grizzlies PG 13
44 Al Jefferson Bobcats C 9
43 David Lee Warriors PF 11
42 Jrue Holiday Pelicans PG 12
41 Anthony Davis Pelicans PF 10
40 Joe Johnson Nets SG 4
39 Serge Ibaka Thunder PF 9
38 Kevin Garnett Nets PF 8
37 Rudy Gay Raptors SF 8
36 Paul Pierce Nets SF 7
35 Ty Lawson Nuggets PG 11
34 Pau Gasol Lakers PF 7
33 Al Horford Hawks C 8
32 Andre Iguodala Warriors SF 6
31 Brook Lopez Nets C 7
30 Zach Randolph Grizzlies PF 6
29 DeMarcus Cousins Kings C 6
28 Damian Lillard Blazers PG 10
27 Josh Smith Hawks SF 5
26 Joakim Noah Bulls C 5
25 Roy Hibbert Pacers C 4
24 John Wall Wizards PG 9
23 Chris Bosh Heat C 3
22 Tim Duncan Spurs PF 5
21 Dirk Nowitzki Mavs PF 4
20 LaMarcus Aldridge Blazers PF 3
19 Rajon Rondo Celtics PG 8
18 Marc Gasol Grizzlies C 2
17 Blake Griffin Clippers PF 2
16 Deron Williams Nets PG 7
15 Kevin Love TWolves PF 1
14 Dwyane Wade Heat SG 3
13 Paul George Pacers SF 4
12 Russell Westbrook Thunder PG 6
11 Tony Parker Spurs PG 5
10 Stephen Curry Warriors PG 4
9 Kyrie Irving Cavs PG 3
8 Dwight Howard Rockets C 1
7 Derrick Rose Bulls PG 2
6 Kobe Bryant Lakers SG 2
5 James Harden Rockets SG 1

Rankings are based on expected contribution in ’13-14—to players’ team, the League and the game.

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  • Stepfan Raiford

    More instagram bulletin board material for dwade.

  • Björn Atli

    good, truthful piece.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Ben, got 2 write ups in a row! you deserved them boss, really well done.

  • LLC#12

    He’s gonna need a bigger board.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    5? Melo must be working really hard this summer. I don’t have the press passes to see the knicks on the regular, but it’s gonna make for a fun nba season if melo can push KD for 2nd spot.

    Harden is gonna be in contention for top 3 player in the league by the end of the nba season. More open threes. More Steals. More Assists. It would have been amazing if Thunder retained RW, JH, KD and move harden to PG and RW to SG, but the Rockets have turned around dramatically. Rockets will win the west.

    btw 1225 I thought meant return for Kobe’s date but i stand corrected.because I learned it is different

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    If wade takes Lebron’s possession away. The heat are not three peating.

  • shockexchange

    Darn good write-up, and a very convincing case for Harden. Black Ric Flair has been drafting LeBron recently. However, (Meek Mill voice) “There’s levels to this ____.” When Harden went head-to-head against Black Ric Flair in the NBA Finals, he was ghost. What the write-up implies is that just one year later, after ballin’ outta control for a mediocre Rockets team that got bounced in the first round of the playoffs, Harden is better than Black Ric Flair.

    This ranking needs an asterisk beside it. He’s the best SG in the L – assuming Black Ric Flair doesn’t get healthy again. (Meek Mill voice) “THERE’S LEVELS TO THIS ____”

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    You already signed up for fantasy this year fam?

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    Wow I’m pretty amazed how high CP3 is going to be on this list. Anyway, I like this ranking for Harden. I feel his scoring will actually boost with some of the attention being focused on D12.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    SLAM wise, yeah, Caboose is running a league. where you been? he posted about it for like a week before it filled up..

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    Man I’ve been real busy. Air Force stuff as well as music. Ya boy is getting buzz now lol I saw he stated the league was full so I started one if you wanna join.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yeah, you still got my e-mail? or DM me the link on twitter.

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    I’ll DM you on twitter. I forgot your name cuz I think you changed it lol

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    Nvm lol just DM’d you

  • spit hot fiyah

    i have no problem with this ranking if he can raise his level of defense from cringe worthy/catastrophic to somewhat respectable

  • Sérgio

    Way too high, and bad argumentation defending his spot. He is the best SG because he dropped 35 in a streetball game? If so, just put John Wall at number 1.

  • Harvey

    I hope to see that he has improved his on-ball defending. I wonder how his scoring will pan out this year?
    He is a ball dominant wing, so will Dwight have the offense implemented through him, or high pick n rolls/pick n pops? I’m sure Kevin McHale has his plans for the offense… but I’m hesitant to believe this will work.
    As I’ve said all summer, I think the Rockets will be great in this regular season, but suffer a first round exit in the playoffs.

  • Harvey

    Oh, and Harden’s euro-step is a thing of beauty. He has mastered that skill.

  • Dagger

    Really? Chris Paul has been the consensus third or, at worst, fourth-best player in the league for years now.

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    And I’ve always wondered that to be honest. I’m not saying he’s not worth it just imo I wouldn’t call him the third best player in the league.

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    Btw I started a fantasy league and you seem like a dude who knows his basketball so if you’re not already in a couple you’re welcome to join.

  • Jermaine

    1225

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    most people do tho

  • http://slamonline.com/ Ben Osborne

    Ben Collins forever

  • JohnWilkesPoop

    What does it mean?

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    And I use to be one of those people lol then again I do have to remember these are just projections so we shall wait and see I guess.

  • redbeard

    If Harden gets a post-game, he’ll be even more deadly. I can’t wait to see what this guy is going to become this year. If he and Dwight can develop that P&R chemistry and they win ~55 games, Harden will be the darkhorse MVP candidate.

  • Dundler

    I feel like this, but for Melo. And way more angrily

  • Ze Zruth

    r u serious? he’s got two moves. eurostep with 3 steps and “showing the ball” while driving. veeeeeery overrated player

  • Dundler

    Likelyhood of that happening….not worth counting

  • Dundler

    Melo isn’t the 4th best player in the league by any stretch. Weird.

    As for Harden, I like him, which is annoying, because I hate Dwight. But still, he is a very, very clever player with a lot of skill. On offense he will be top 3 in the league next year I think. His playmaking is also getting a showing during preseason.

    Now, just for his defence to improve…

  • Dfrance

    I wouldn’t either, but I also fully acknowledge that it has more to do with the fact that I think he’s a sneaky little weasel, than his actual basketball skills.

  • rhys

    ignorant journalism

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    So 25/5/4 is very overrated?

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    That’s probably it. I’m not the biggest fan of CP3 and I can’t stand the Clippers so my dislike for them is probably clouding my judgement who knows.

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    You never know the way the list has been shaping out Melo might be 3 lol

  • Dundler

    Don’t toy with me

  • Dundler

    Somebody doesn’t know what a eurostep is

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    I don’t see how anyone can think he’s overrated. He’s been so good that people think the Clippers were contenders last year. When really, without him they would have been a bottom feeder. Just like New Orleans was after he left.

  • JohnWilkesPoop

    What?

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    It’s very possible but highly unlikely. So I’ll be silent about it until tomorrow.

  • Dundler

    I bet they do not. Purely to anger me. How totally awful that would be

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    Oh I’ve never said he’s overrated. I just wouldn’t put him as the 3rd best player. However, I wouldn’t mind putting him at number 4.

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    Yea you’re probably right. Either way the closer we get to #1 the good news is we are that much closer to the season opener.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    And who is this 3rd player that you’d put above him?

  • Dundler

    Ha absolutely. I suddenly realized earlier. All my fantasy teams are sitting on the edge of the bench, ready to check in, ha

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    When 100% healthy I would put Dwight Howard at number 3.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Ok, that’s the only acceptable answer from my perspective lol. If Dwight is back to 2010-11 Dwight, he’s even in the #2 convo (imo)

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    Oh yea that’s the only other player I would put ahead of him. I know you would’ve killed me if I said anyone else lol

  • LakeShow

    He’s an interesting cat.

    He wasn’t too highly thought of when the Thunder drafted him ahead of Curry, Tyreke, Rubio, Jennings etc.

    He’s better than all of them now.

    His D will look allot better this year with a more unified defensive group.

  • Free

    Right now he’s top 5 but we all know DRose will push him out that spot
    Real top 10 if everyone was 100%
    LeBron
    Rose
    Durant
    Paul
    Westbrook
    Harden
    Melo
    Kobe
    Howard
    Parker (still doesn’t get respect imo he better than kyrie n steph he doesn’t fill up the stat sheets like them but he is a BIG time player there was times he looked like the best player in the world in the Finals until the real best player went to work)

  • Dundler

    Really overating Melo and underating Durant, but glad you mentioned Parker at least

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    Wait is that in order? If so can you explain why you have Rose over Durant?

  • pposse

    underating durant by what? one spot? if that too, Rose is the second best baller in the world when all are at 100%

  • tape15

    the hate for melo is ridiculous… of course he’s a top 5 player. and the write-ups are getting better for sure. melo’s gonna surprise some people this year… might be the year he takes that leap

  • pposse

    what leap? you really think the knicks will leap into the eastern conf. finals?

  • LakeShow

    Last year was that year.

  • Dundler

    One spot is one spot still. I wouldn’t be able to take Rose over Durant at this point, is nothing else due to the fact he’s liable to miss more games even without considering his ACL. But if all are 100% as you say, its close, and it wouldn’t surprise me if Rose got there, but Durant still has it

  • Dundler

    Yep. Year 10 is often the one where they shed all previous habits.

  • tape15

    how is he overrating melo? harden’s a one-sided player only and melo is better on the offensive end. westbrook is an upcoming star but he’s not as reliable as melo… unless you don’t watch knicks games regularly you shouldn’t be blatantly hating on melo. his teammates always give him the ball expecting him to shoot, especially at the end of the shotclock which is why he “jacks up” so many shots. smh

  • LakeShow

    What does Rose do better than Durant per se?

    Name one thing. (Given he’s a better play maker)

  • tape15

    thought so as well but the roster was too old at times and jr dissapointed big time in the playoffs. wishing for the best this year

  • pposse

    winning.

  • Dundler

    Really? You think Melo only jacks at the end of the 24 but I’m the one who needs to watch more Knicks games?

  • LakeShow

    Shall we take a look at their win totals the last few years?

  • tape15

    first itll have to start with melo playing defense consistently, maybe having artest might help. the east is gonna be tough this year, depending how Rose plays, pacers, bulls, knicks and nets are gonna be fighting to play miami

  • Dundler

    Umm…Finals appearances…

  • tape15

    i didnt say only – and i agree melo is a ballstopper for sure. but often his teammates just throw him the ball and get out of the way, expecting him to do something.

  • LakeShow

    Uhm, efficiency, defense, offense.

    So everything under the basketball banner is what Durant does better than Rose…

    That’s not a knock on Rose. KD is that good.

    Rose has put up 2 very nice seasons.

    KD has put up a couple all timer seasons.

    I didn’t mean to post this to you haha.

  • pposse

    lol no. I have no idea how that works. But we can look at the teams win loss record. To be fair the Bulls and Thunder have comparable rosters, yet it was D Rose who led a team to two straight #1 overall seeds. That shouldn’t be downplayed. KD scores better no doubt, but I think D Rose is attacking the rim better than anyone right now. In the preseason alone this year he is averaging like 10 fta’s. if that is a sign for things to come then there really will be a hybrid lebron/kobe in the league.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Haha yeah since it’s you I wouldn’t have let a different answer go without stating my case

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    I just hope Kobe comes back to superstar form so Lakeshow and pposse can discuss him vs Derrick Rose. That would be so damn entertaining

  • Dundler

    His defence would be decent, if he bothered playing it. But he is a ballstopper, absolutely. He makes no attempt at making his team better and leadership skills have never been seen from him.
    At the beginning of last year, he act had a stretch where he played effectively, correctly and with heart…that ended pretty quickly and he went back into diva mode.
    Shooting whatever he liked, blaming others, complaining instead of getting back…skills-wise, sure he’s up there but that doesn’t matter when you don’t use them properly.
    And look, here he is, about to hold a franchise to ransom again…

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    12 espn lakers rank and 25 Kobe rank on espn

  • Dundler

    Yeah, can’t help but feel you’re just blatently ignoring the 2012 finals

  • pposse

    yeah but normally I would say underrating or overrating someone is giving someone a ranking that is more like 2 or 3 spots off their true rankings. But to each his own. If you think that Durant is by far the better player then I see where you are coming from. if its debatable then you know i can’t agree with the ‘really underrating durant’ part. With all that being said i have a feeling you might be right about the resting for D Rose i won’t be surprised if he rests like every 5 games or so.

  • Dundler

    I was just being nitpicky. But I think the gap between no.2 and no.3 is still pretty large (as of today). Durant is other wordly, but its reached that annoying part where people are not surprised anymore and he hasn’t won enough to be revered (hence suddenly there’s more Durant haters than before)
    I’m pretty sure Thibs has actually said something about the rest. Can’t fault your love of Rose, he’s been so much better than I thought he’d look already

  • LakeShow

    Seriously that kid is on that next level.

  • Dundler

    Hey man I agree with you

  • pposse

    im not trying to ignore the finals. I’m basing stuff off of the regular season. Winning in the playoffs does have its worth, but Rose hasn’t been in the playoffs since 2011 so idk how you can compare that and plus they got whooped by the HEat in the finals a lot worse than when the Bulls had to play them in the ECF.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Yeah man, his opinion is like yours 3 years ago on HGH

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    You know me man I’m not going to just spout outlandish claims haha

  • Najee Fareed

    Harden is good but Kobe Bean Bryant is still better than him….

  • Dundler

    Well because you said winning, which is what the playoffs is there for. If Player A has three seasons of being an 8th seed but going to the finals every time, whereas Player B gets a 1st seed for three years but doesn’t make the finals at all, Player A is the bigger winner.

    And they didn’t get whooped, not until the elimination. They were a call off being 2-0 up.

  • Dundler

    NBK slowly takes aim…

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Lol but The actual players we are talking about, Rose was locked the f*ck up against Miami. Durant, unlike his teammates and Derrick Rose, was barely even slowed down by Miami.

  • Harvey

    LOL

  • pposse

    so averaging somethng like 25 and 8 throughout the series is definition for getting locked up?

  • cbranson05

    not the 5th best player in the league. that is all

  • pposse

    i dont think either team got whooped but its unfair to give the thunder and KD credit for getting to the finals and losing to the same team that stopped the Bulls from getting to the finals. Winning shouldn’t just go to KD and the Thunder cause they only play the best player and his team in the finals.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Oh, right, what he did against Mario Chalmers…how about his stats when the games were on the line? You are trying to call him the 2nd best player on earth, his last set of
    Meaningful 4th quarters he shot what…….6%?
    .
    Lol, go to sleep. Durant has literally been doing stuff no player in the history of the game has done, without you know….missing a whole season, or showing anyone the ability to be completely neutralized. Derrick Rose is not in any sort of conversation as better than Kevin Durant.
    .
    Derrick Rose’s MVP season, vs Kevin Durant last season,

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=rosede01&y1=2011&p2=duranke01&y2=2013

    it’s not even kind of close.

  • rhys

    aka ignorant jounalism

  • pposse

    in 10-11 Rose was better. In 11-12 if you want to talk about playoffs then based off of the 1 game he played, he would have averaged 23 9 and 9 aaand we will see what will be said afte rthis year.

  • Dundler

    Despite having to go through the West to get there? I don’t understand why you wouldn’t give Durant for being a winner when he’s advanced further than Rose and having a lesser team and coach (not that I think thats the argument, but its worth mentioning).

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    see, Durant hasn’t been sitting out with a knee injury. his stats from 10-11 were literally two full seasons ago. and Durant just put up a season that Derrick Rose has not come close to equalling for even a month…..
    .
    you want me to repeat that?
    .
    Kevin Durant’s entire season in 2012-13 is better than any ONE MONTH of Derrick Rose’s career. 82 games from Kevin Durant, > the best month of Derrick Rose’s career.
    .
    but sure, let’s just trust his stats from one playoff game. like that proves your point.

  • pposse

    dallas blew up their team, the LA Lakers were old and same goes for SA. Plus KD hardly had a lesser team.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    because he has a replica Derrick Rose nutsack tattooed on the inside of his throat.

  • Dfrance

    Players of Melo’s caliber don’t typically take any leaps in their 10th year. This is who he is as a player.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    nope, he’s the guy who says, “tht sounds stupid” when you interject with a fact. if fact’s sound stupid, i don’t wanna know what logic sounds like.

  • Dundler

    The Lakers series was act close, they didn’t destroy but got the wins. SA was great that year, and the better team in my opinion, but the Thunder got hot and blew them away.
    I think he does. Obv he has Westbrook, and did have Harden (who may aswell not be counted if we consider the Finals), but after that its Sefolosha and Collision as good/not too talented role players and there you have it. Ibaka wasn’t giving too much back then. Other than fouls.
    Rose had Deng, Boozer, Noah, Asik, Brewer, Gibson and a quality back up in CJ Watson.
    Then, if we compare the coaching/system, its not even close. The Bulls defensive system is amazing (not that I believe this should demerit Rose in any way, I’m just comparing) and Thibs coaching is light years ahead of Brooks

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i don’t think i’ll be present for the draft. i’m the best man in a wedding this weekend, so friday i got rehearsal dinner, saturday the wedding, and sunday, already have 3 fantasy drafts scheduled because of this issue. but i can autodraft, and still probably come out with a solid team.

  • tape15

    yeah its tough being a melo fan but a lot of what you said is correct, but he played great basketball at the beginning of last year which translated in many wins for the knicks. i think he’s gonna stay in new york though

  • pposse

    itd be nice to see artest instill a different mentality into carmello.

  • Dundler

    Hey man everyone’s welcome to be a fan of whatever, least you have enough intelligence to admit where they come up short instead of just calling me stupid lol.
    I was genuinely changing my mind on him before he just suddenly stopped what he was doing. He may well do, but if he has the same kid of circus that he did in Denver then its still damn annoying

  • pposse

    Lebron maybe plays Rose for like 6 minutes in the 4th qtr and you try and project that out for a whole game. Facts are facts, 25 and 8 isn’t the definition of being locked up.

  • Dundler

    Just to add…Durant averaged 30 on 54% shooting in those Finals

  • pposse

    Durant Westbrook and Harden are all going to make 150 million plus in their NBA careers. The top three in OKC was very talented especially back in 2012. Their coach was garbage, but the players on the team are not comparable to that 2011 bulls roster at all. And btw that was their first yr with Thibs, so that superior coaching should be some what negated.

  • IggI

    Who eve put this list together is on crack big time.

  • LakeShow

    If facts sound stupid, I wanna sound stupid…

    haha

  • Dundler

    I think that Bulls roster out does the Thunder’s top 3. esp since Harden didn’t show up in the finals whatsoever. Why would that being his first year make it negated?

  • Najee Fareed

    ok.. kobe can run= fact, it sounded stupid because your fact was wrong

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    You mean he can jog……

  • Dundler

    Large difference between being able to ‘run’ the length of a basketball court and playing basketball

  • pposse

    bc your talking about a system that was just put in place as it related to the Bulls. Thibs can make adjustments, but hardly any were made when the Bulls played the Heat that year in the ECF. Thibs was also a first yr coach, he was definately more prone to making coaching mistakes that year than any yr thereafter. From that perspective saying that Scottie Brooks was a huge liability in comparison to Thibs is a bit overblown. Atleast Brooks had a high comfort level with his players from prior years of coaching them.

  • Dundler

    I dunno man, I can say pretty confidently that Thibs was a better coach in the 2011 playoffs than Brooks was

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Lol

  • Najee Fareed

    nope i meant what i typed. Kobe Bryant can run, but his legs are not up to full strength and he is admittedly out of shape, those are facts you could have said but not that he can’t run

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    #KobeCantRun

    “Kobe can’t fully push off yet”
    - Asked @kobebryant about his Achilles: “I can’t quite push all the way through yet, but it’s coming along fine. It feels all right.” – October 18, 2013
    http://mweb.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24103046/kobe-bryant-cant-fully-push-off-achilles-yet

  • pposse

    IF Thibs was so much better, then why did the bulls have the same exact problem for 4 games in a row in the 4th qtr against Miami? Rose literally did the same thing in the 4th qtr every single game. I just feel that the series was a learning experience for the players as well as the coaches.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    what is your ethnicity? and describe your avatar.

  • Dundler

    Umm…do you realise we’ve now come around to arguing against the player you were originally defending.
    And I’m not saying Thibbs was amazing, he was just better than Brooks.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Because their players weren’t good enough to deal with the adjustment from Miami. There, at least in 2011, was no other way to use Derrick Rose. Chicago tried all of the ones with a chance at success (high screen, isolation, screen off of a catch, dribble drives) but Rose just wasn’t capable of finding an advantage – which is not a slight on Rose, it’s just the way it was – blaming it on the coach is a complete cop out. Thibs is a top 5 coach in the league. Scott Brooks is probably right in the middle if we broke it down. And offensively, Scott brooks is a dunce cap. Lol, and Thibs created an environment where Derrick Rose became the youngest MVP in league history…..I mean, think about it.

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    Commece ether

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    Ahh I can change the time if you want.

  • playa

    Rose is better player than Harden&should have better season as well this year.Also if Harden will be still playing as inconsistently as last year,fully healthy Kobe is still better than him.But i undestand how this ranking works so im not really mad at this.

  • Slick Ric

    Too high.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    just fill the league then figure it out first. if the current time works for everyone else, i’ll be fine, not that i wouldn’t rather draft, but i’m not tryna make sh*t more difficult for everyone.

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    Ok cool.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i mean, it’s a f*cking Achilles tear. Kobe Bryant IS a human being. he ain’t running 6 months after that sh*t happens. maybe he can look like he’s running for a few strides, but come on. this is just stupid.

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    Let people dream you dream snatcher.

  • shockexchange

    In the Shock Exchange’s opinion, “Empty-mouth” better catch a rabbit this year or he falls outta the top 10.

  • tape15

    yeah not one of those idiots here that argue without any facts to back it up, i just enjoy watching melo cause hes never afraid to shoot haha and a lot of the times he hits them so

  • underdog

    Like every year.

  • King David

    James Harden is NOT better than Kobe, Westbrook, Rose, or Steph Curry and he is def not the 5th best player in the NBA, to make it worst he has a mohawk…..

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    well if you say so.

  • LakeShow

    All those players are appearing to be in better health than KB currently.

  • hubertdavisfor3

    Get to the 2nd round and see what happens. Good chance they were there last year if not for Chandler’s illness and JR going ice cold against IND. While it remains to be seen, there’s a good argument that they actually have a better team this year, especially being younger.

  • hubertdavisfor3

    Nope, you didn’t watch the knicks enough last season. The heavy use of their 3 PG rotation eliminated carmelo as a ball stopper. The ball moved consistently and he played within the flow of the offense. This is why he shot a career high from 3 and had his best TS% since the 07-08 season. You don’t finish 3rd in MVP voting without making improvements in the way you play the game.

    As for free agency, he isn’t the one bring it up. Media has nothing else to write about, and is basically pretending like there isn’t a whole season left to play. I’m not going to worry about it. If he leaves, he leaves, but he likely just wants to get max $, and I don’t blame him.

  • Mike Gilbert

    if you there’s a spot open email me at mjgilbe@ilstu.edu

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    Sent

  • Dagger

    Don’t really have the time for that this year, but I appreciate the offer (and compliment).

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    I hear ya man and no problem.

  • King David

    finally starting to respect melo huh ?

  • danpowers

    that will never happen, they just want to p*ss the readers off with that top 50 ranking so that we use that comment section more

  • 3Chainz

    true

  • teq

    I’ve only read about 7 articles on this site ever. You got owned in every Rose vs whomever debate I read on here. I’m the biggest Rose fan around. Trust me when I tell you, you make his fans look like morons. He’s not better than Durant or Lebron, nor is he equal to them. Be a fan, not a fool. That is all.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    your grasp on urban culture perplexes me. The comparisons are off. Nick Young is ric flair.

    Lebron is Scott steiner. scott hall wade. Bosh kevin nash. Hulk hogan is shane battier. buff bagwell is mario chalmers. And to top it all of Lex Luger is norris cole (that’s gonna require proof i cannot supply). The heat have the colors of NWO.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    1127

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    yeah 3rd

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    in the past.

  • rhys

    whats it to you? are you a slaver?

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    you know what i found incredibly adding velocity. When people use that argument of relativity to dispute all definite claims. Like oh well he perceives it like this, oh he’s biased, oh adding velocity don’t remix dont remix it Holiday Season brrrrr ra tha thang thang yeah i do my thang whazzup

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    run what about lateral movements. Bro hit me up with you ethnicity? what about cuts. come on adding velocity. you know im about this history. adding velocity when you comment it becomes a mystery. remix remix ADDING Distance when i listen when i listen when I listen my rate goes down

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    man if i didn’t scroll down i could save my creative remix for another post because i said what you said just in reverse order.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    ETHER we going in for that 300 bars n runnin. schwuff

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    and im the team crasher.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    pposse is a true bulls fan. just like your a lakers fan. on another thread i said pacers get at bulls (i think in 6 games).

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    2nd best baller. he’s not even 2nd best at his position when his compeitition is healthy. rondo, paul, westbrook are ahead of him. hes a combo guard thats gets buckets on a good team. he doesn’t carry the bulls. the bulls make it easy for him. remove noah and deng. remove deng and noah. allen iverson carry bulls farther than rose. if your vitnamese then let me know

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    what adidas got you for how much are you making write this. if you are part of rose’s posse let me get a hook up

  • shockexchange

    Yeah Velocity, the Shock Exchange doesn’t have his hand on the pulse of urban culture. You’ve figured him out.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    a slave like you and the rest of humanity in this physical world.

    i am curious because your avatar looks so different than anything ive seen before

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    urban culture manufactured by the elite socialites who own corporations and fashion or the urban culture of 45th and lennox ave. You gotta be clear bro. BTW what gave you the ability to exchange shock and how does it work. Like what currency are you operating with right now

    Adding Velocity not Velocity it makes my avatar so reanolap

  • JohnWilkesPoop

    How are we all slaves?

  • JohnWilkesPoop

    Culture is manufactured by the elite socialites. I don’t know why you’re honing in on “urban culture”.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    Summarize your life. It’s pretty simple you have certain activities you do and certain goals you want. But really reduce it down as to the simple question “is this all it is”. Really reflect. You live a purpose driven life whether you know it or not. But now reduce the activities that go into that function. Don’t let emotions come into play when you reach your conclusion just ask yourself is this all it is pause reflect reassess pause reflect reassess.

  • JohnWilkesPoop

    The unemotional summary of my life is that I was born and I’m still alive.

  • john

    Wow what have I stumbled upon? A clan of under 20 skateboarding dudes? The analysis here is so, so … underwhelming. Grow up, get a life and learn to rely on advanced statistical analysis. Your lying eyes will lead you astray every time.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    draw a straight line on a piece of paper. On one end draw a dot saying born on the other end draw a dot saying death. In between that line notice the reptition of all the events that go in to your purpose for living. do you have a purpose that you can state in one sentence. Then simply ask yourself is this is is this all there is. is there anything out there.

  • JohnWilkesPoop

    Life is good enough my man. I don’t know what else there is out there but life is good enough.

  • JohnWilkesPoop

    Don’t you think?

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    if you are content with the lens you wear and the culture you are submerged in you’ll never see what’s behind the curtain. really reflect and ponder. Do you want to live as a hedonist. Why do most with wealth in this particular civilization chase cars, homes, women. Is there other civilzations with different paradigms that approached reality differently. you have one lens but ask yourself do other lens exists that will change my outlook

  • JohnWilkesPoop

    You’re having an imaginary conversation. Where are you getting that I’m a hedonist? I am a hedonist just like everyone is-the attainment of pleasure and happiness is the most important thing. But you’re assuming that I gain that pleasure from these trivial things revolving around money and prestige. I’m far far from being rich (in the American sense of the word) and I don’t worry about that. And yeah I gain pleasure in women. That doesn’t make me a hedonist, that makes me a heterosexual male.

    You should ask yourself whether telling other people what to do is the most worthwhile pursuit you can think of or whether it is better to live your own life as you see fit and listen, rather than prejudge others.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    i agree but i never meant it as insult because every is a hedonist to some extent. what i meant was is there anything beyond great perfumes, the connection of two urinary tracts, tasty food, visceral pleasures. i don’t want to tell anybody how to live. that’s foolish i am accoutnable for myself same for each person.

  • JohnWilkesPoop

    Oh ok I hear you. So, I think beyond those things you mentioned is a great deal. I mean it’s autumn right now and just walking around my neighborhood makes me happy because the air feels great and the trees look amazing. It’s the same thing when you read a good book or hear great music. I mean, that’s life and that’s the reason it’s worth living.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    the former can be reduced to somatosensory/ chemical senses. the emotional aspect as well. But i like the last part you mentioned read ask yourself why do i read for the thrill of acquiring knowledge to benefit myself in the future or some combination.

    How does one logically breakdown the structure of this world and our perceptions. I think the best way to reduce it is by notions of truth and falsehood. Can things be categorized accordingly to make sense of this reality?

  • JohnWilkesPoop

    I don’t know it sounds like you have more to say about that than I do so what’s your perspective?

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    When any idea is created you must explore the origin of that idea where does it come from and what is its purpose. I mean what is the purpose and how to live according to some belief of knowing reality is philosophy (this is my own definition). Philosophy can be divided into nonsupernatural origins or supernatural origins (religious texts). Before you ever reach secular philosophers and examine their perspectives examine the claims of religious texts supernatural origin. See unlike secular philsophers there is no consequence to not following them, but usually religious text have consequences. I mean why do Orthodox hindus not eat meat when most people do… its not a health reason rather its the hope of a greater reincarnation maybe to the brahmin class just one example or greater status. After you examine you examine religious texts look up western or eastern philosophers if you are not satisfied with your research. If you like their philosphies try it out if not don’t. Explore explore explore. I leave you with that for the night.

    BTW why choose that name John wilks poop

  • JohnWilkesPoop

    Yeah I mean a lot of ideas come from dominant culture at the time. I don’t know enough about Hinduism to speculate as to why they don’t eat meat but it’s an interesting thing to consider. I don’t think you need to try those supernatural philosophies though if you reject them all initially as inherently flawed insofar as they purport to know that God exists and also the meaning of life. I really gotta get to bed man but it was good chatting. Take care good sir, I’ll be around for further pontificating.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    too doo loo

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    in a sense your correct. i mean the way loans were given in the 50s has shaped a barrier between blacks in whites in most cities. and within those enclaves a culture does develop for good or worse of the human.

    social media and engineering has that impact via the radio and television. but now with internet that’s changing with a global village.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    lebron

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    You made me laugh

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    I think Melo has gone through multiple motivational summers. I remember watching a documentary called Carmelo’s way where he was going to redefine his game. Honestly, he needs to hit the jump soles and get his athleticism up. He isn’t fluid when he’s moving and real short choppy strides. Melo is at his peak and will stay there for a while. depending upon how players change around him and how his team changes will dictate his success. I joke about Melo to the heat but seriously what are the heat doing to ensure 4 straight

  • Drig

    Howard is SO underrated right now it isn’t even funny.

  • Drig

    Rose plays in the East. Durant plays in the West. It’s not even funny how deep the West is.

  • Drig

    Injuries have totally destroyed the SLAM top50 this season………If you had told me 2 years ago that Melo and Harden would be in the top 5, above Westbrook, Kobe, Rose, Wade, Howard, DWill and Rondo, I would’ve laughed my ass off……

  • Drig

    Can’t forget Melo ( danpowers )

    Think of the euphoria it’d generate if all 3 hit game-winners on the same night at some point this season lol.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    you mean dysphoria lol for the other 2

  • Drig

    LOL. I’m chuckling uncontrollably here :D

  • Drig

    Bu-But…..KOBE!!!!!!!THE RINGZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    nah bro harden just got his first shot at being the man and excelled. Melo shouldn’t be top 5 even with the injuries. Rondo will end up stastically best pg because its gonna be green light city in the green city of boston for rondo with no one there. he’ll rack up his stats.

    are you in the England too. paul is good but why do people automatically give him the number 1 spot without asking the simple question is he the pg you want running your team?

  • Drig

    Thread : Harden top 5

    Comment thread :

    Most commented : Rose vs Durant

    Most WTF-worthy : Discussion about Life.

    Ladies and Gentlemen, SLAM!

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    hahaha ah man that’s cradee

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    that health though bro that health though. ANd plus moving to PF is gonna change his game and could decrease in rebounds and points.

  • Drig

    Rondo probably won’t play for 3/4ths of the season. That alone removes him from this convo, sadly.

    CP3 is still the number 1 PG in the L purely because he’s so consistent. I’m still pretty high on DWill regaining his form ( like last season post-ASG ) but he can’t seem to stay healthy. Same with Rondo.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    i thought rondo was gonna come back after 1/3 season but that’s a speculation.

  • Drig

    I did say that all 3 of them hit GW on the same night lol.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    yeah but when the other two find out they are gonna get upset that they lost the edge. slime

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    what’s your rules for the fantasy and if you got a spot open and need somebody please give let me about the opportunity.

  • Drig

    Cs are gonna tank HARD. If Rondo forces his way onto the floor and starts winning games for the Cs ( which is possible but not very likely ), I expect a trade to go down.

    The issue I see with this is…………I don’t think Celts can win any decent number of games to get good press for Rondo even if he DOES play.

    The Cs SUCKED last season at scoring. They were abysmal. And now they’re without their two best scorers. For a pass-first guy like Rondo, that’s like cutting your arms off and being forced to play blindfolded.

  • Ze Zruth

    dude, i’m from Europe, trust me, I know ;)

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    what happened to Reke Havoc that’s what I want to know. bro we have been saying the same thing about harden’s D. but what happened to reke havoc

  • Drig

    Ain’t no way in hell he’s playing PF.

  • Drig

    LOL………I’m pretty sure they won’t. But it’s fun to imagine that scenario.

    But I do know a few guys in my neighborhood who’re gonna be depressed just like you said lol.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    actually bro you make a lot of sense i held the view but i just forgot i said those points on another thread.

    cetlics are tanking but rondo sitll can get dimes with weak offensive players that’s cuz he knows how to set up and doesnt do the rose westbrook assist and just drive and kick to the perimeter.

    What do you think of this core Rondo, Bradley, Jabari Parker, Jeff Green

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    dawg have you been reading the slam articles and the experimenting. Asik center and howard at PF. maybe that article is older and things have changed?

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    yo bro im audi but man try this out: go on youtube and look up fractal mute the sound and get as close as you can to the monitor. mind marshmellowing. i don’t support the use of intoxicants but shout out to hegemonic $

  • Drig

    Great write-up.

    Just don’t think Kobe has passed the torch………..yet. I believe he’s got one more season in him before he abdicates his throne.

  • Drig

    That’s at best gonna be a 2nd round depending on the matchups. And they’ll need quite a bit of luck as well

    There’s simply not enough scoring there.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe
  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    not any more bro the East is heavy top and stronger. man im audi though Shout to Chalmers Johnson The Real Chalmers Johnson He don’t owe me a single favor

  • Dundler

    Dude, so am I. Trusy me, theres plenty of people who have no idea how to do it.

    Thats not an insult btw, im just saying, living in europe doesn’t have any bearing on it

  • pposse

    2,000 plus pts 600 plus assists, 51 blocks 300 plus rebounds..name me one PG in the history of basketball that put up those overall numbers outside of Oscar Robertson. You want to see the game played one way thats all this is. Also add in the 128 three pters and there you have have an argument for best season from a PG ever. But that wasn’t a historic season at all from D Rose. Only KD had a historic season..okay i see you now nbk

    All of this was done at the age of 22 plus it equated to 62 regular season wins

    gnight bro, what does KD wear in your dreams when you think about him? is it him or you with lipstick on?

  • pposse

    dont let the mob influence you. I’ve only read this comment from you and I already know your a pawn in someone else’s game. You’d probably do horrible in a show like ‘survivor’

  • jeez

    Don’t excuse away your inability to accept facts. There really isn’t a single skilled area in which Rose is better than those two guys. You haven’t presented a single fact based argument. Your responses consist of pure opinion. You don’t address facts, you address the poster, which is a clear sign that you have no real argument. You only have your fandom.

  • pposse

    so when nbk gave me that side by side comparison i didn’t just show how Roses assists plus pts add up to more buckets scored in 93 less minutes than KD? okay buddy. Read the whole thread then if you have to before coming up with your nonsensical conclusion. You all just cant accept volume over efficiency, even though the top most efficient basketball players of all time aren’t in most people’s top 10. What other facts do I need to show you? actually don’t answer that, nonthing will ever sway your opinion.

  • jeez

    No we can’t. Because in no universe does scoring less points less efficiently equal a better player. It’s crazy to even suggest that. Your “more buckets scored” works against you. You just compared KD to Rose and his whole team basically. To paraphrase you “KD is a better, more efficient scorer but when you couple Rose’s own less efficient points with what his teammates score, he is better than KD”. I wouldn’t hold KD’s lack of assists over him any more than I would hold his rebounds over Rose, however skill for skill KD is better.

  • pposse

    93 less minutes played, yet only 20 less FG’s and nearly 300 more assists. Efficiency is not everything. Your conclusion also states that the Thunder should have more victories than the bulls, afterall the game is played for victories not efficiency. Efficiency does not equal more wins period. And how can KD average more turnovers than a PG? riddle me that too. Not to mention the historic season that has not been duplicated by any pg outside of Oscar Robertson. And you want to talk about rebounds lol..why does D Rose have more offensive rebounds than a 6’11″ freak? Like I said, all of your ‘efficeient’ points get scorched by total output.

    I first stated that they have very similar teams too, so i compared KD and his team against Rose and his team (kd’s points plus assists vs d rose pts plus assists).

  • pposse

    in fact the he’s the 3rd player in NBA history to do that type of work throughout a season..so go ahead and talk all you want about KD and shrug the accomplishments a 22 yr old did all you want and act like there is no comparison to what a 24 yr old did. You guys are all just influenced by the mob sorry for brining a different perspective on things, must have ruined the ‘chi’ in here or something.

  • jeez

    Rose plays in the east. If you paid attention to anything but Rose’s d!ck, you’d realize that the Thunder are in a deeper conference. Don’t talk to me about Rose getting more wins with lesser season long comp. Rose had Miami and who else as comp the last season he played? Oh yea, no one really. Sit down. Durant is a better scorer and a better defensive player. He plays in a deeper conference. Durant has had a couple of season better than Rose’s historic season. You are just a fan dude. A crazed fan blind to reality.

  • pposse

    so thats how it breaks down now. Now Rose is a victim of the competition he plays against..again thats faulty logic. If you are not aware, look up D Rose’s stats against better competition, or against perceived ‘threat’s to the PG crown he has a firm grip on..his stats elevate lil homie! Its okay tho keep feeding on that bs these fools try to cram down your throat. My eyes are wide open, yours are wide shut.

  • pposse

    the argument is based on total output vs efficiency. Roses’ total output outweighs KD’s efficiency is what I am arguing. Pretty much the same argument you make for Kobe which hold validity but most on here are blind to or cannot acknowledge.

  • jeez

    No one is shrugging at anything. Just because we know Druant is better doesn’t mean we are knocking Rose. You’re just too immature to see that. We all have our own eyes. We actually watch more than one team and player. My opinion was my opinion before this site, so grow up. Unlike you I don’t spend my whole life on Slam to be influenced by any “mob”. You just can’t get over how the rest of the sane universe isn’t a Rose groupie. It’s not my fault you lack the capacity to be objective.

  • pposse

    you kno nothing jeez. Its really that simple. Kenny smith has repeated over and over Rose is the best pg in the game, 4 GMs agree that Rose was the best PG in 2012-2013 preseason poll (you know the yr he didnt even play). I guess no one i mentioned plus myself is part of the sane universe then?

  • jeez

    So you are arguing stats again? You realize that KD’s stats are better facing the same comp all season long? Stick to a point here. KD’s team faces better comp all season long. If you argue record, at least acknowledge one conference is better top to bottom. Don’t believe me. Just look at how the Bulls still only lost 15 games less without him. The East Is just top heavy.

  • pposse

    Rose’s stats against top tier pg’s is on another planet. what part of that don’t you get? You want to sit there and talk about competition, some players stats elevate big time against better competition, Rose being one of them. If his stats increase, then the output will increase. There is no reason to believe Rose’s output would decrease from better competition. I used the stats to prove volume, completely different from your argument with stats to show efficiency. Efficiency does not equate to volume. personally i hate using stats to prove my point, i think i make enough of a case with the eye test, but whatevs

  • jeez

    Are you 12? Your attention span is like a pre-teens. None of what you posted makes him better or equal to Durant as a player. Do you understand that? Kenny Smith’s opinion on Rose’s place on the pg list doesn’t make him better than Durant, nor do those 4 gms. You’re so obsessed with him it’s scary. You’d do anything to talk about him lol. You don’t even need to post info relevant to the discussion.

  • pposse

    all of this is just your defense mechanism, its cool tho are you mad bro? Seriously are you mad? Whether you know it or not you are knocking a player if you think someone is better than them and claim it as fact. Your facts are abritrary, face those facts like a grown up..not like a 12 yr old.

    all i did was point out to you that people in a position of basketball prowess (gm’s, analysts etc.) have agreed with me and by your own claims that makes them not sane. But okay, I’m 12 whatever you say bro.

  • jeez

    So you are using individual player match ups to justify team records? Why am I even discussing anything with you? You don’t even string together coherent ideas. Conference depth is somehow irrelevant when it comes to Rose? He could have led his team to the same record if he was in the West? Dude, you are a joke.

  • pposse

    your trying to put a limit on how good a player can be because of the competition, i pointed out to you against stiffer competion the averages of the player goes up. 22-7 record or something of that nature against the west that year. Thats something like a 76% win perentage which conincidentally is around the same win percentage they had for the whole season.

  • jeez

    Lol I bet you really believe what you wrote. Its not knocking Rose to say Durant or Lebron are better than him. They are. Sorry you can’t accept it. I’m sure Kenny Smith and those gm’s agree. You have comprehension skills, so read this slowly: Just because those guys or anyone else think Rose is the best pg, doesn’t mean they think he is the best player in the league. This is apparently harder for you to understand than it would be for an average 12 year old, so I apologize for the comparison.

  • pposse

    i already stated my case. Output over efficiency. You still have done zero to sway that opinion. Plus you haven’t addressed how a 6:2′ pg can get nearly double the amount of offensive boards or have more turnovers than pg

  • jeez

    Playing a more rigorous schedule nightly is not the same as playing tough teams twice a year. If you can’t understand that just say so. But don’t make asinine claims that the Bulls still have the best record in the league regardless of conference. If they were that good they could have gotten more than one win from Miami. If they were that good with or without Rose we wouldn’t be debating who the best team in their own conference is today. I’m done with this silly debate. You are a headcase lol.

  • pposse

    they beat miami all four times they played in t he regular season. Your argument is weak bro thats probably why this debate is over.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    totals? 600 plus assists is impressive? you put in blocks, but not steals? why did you leave out shooting %? how good is 2,000 points on 44% shooting in reality? best season for a PG ever? if you are stupid, sure. here, just for fun,

    Player A) 2,026 points – 623 assists – 330 rebounds – 85 steals – 51 blks – .445 FG% – 81 games played
    Player B) 1,781 points – 861 assists – 432 rebounds – 216 steals – 10 blks – .503 FG% – 78 games played

    Well, I didn’t have to go back more than 5 years to find a better season from a PG…..but thanks for playing.

    (before you say something stupid about the difference in points, let’s just assume every assists after 623 is 2 points, since i’m a nice guy……take the difference in assists (238), multiply that by 2, and you get 476 more points…..now, in contrast, player A scored 245 more points, so that leaves a net production difference of 231 points for player A…..do we need to go over the difference in steals and blocks too?)
    .
    And really? now i’m a kevin durant fan because i made a point about your oh so stupid argument? can you react anymore like a child?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    4 out of 30……

  • pposse

    4 out 30 real experts

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yeah, it’s still 4 out of 30…..you don’t use something to support your case while saying, “13% of experts agree” ….. unless you are trying to make yourself look stupid.

  • pposse

    my argument was never about shooting percentage, it was about sheer volume, which btw he outproduced KD which is what we are talking about, not CP3. And the volume and stats equated to more victories than CP3 (and KD) anyways.
    I just think its funny that the same exact thing KD, Kobe or any other scorer gets revived for is what you are trying to use against somone. Scoring 2,000 pts in a season is nothing easy to do. Just ask cp3 cause that season you pointed out was a blip in the radar if you look at his totals from every other year (thank you for pointing out an outlier). Talk to me when he gets 1,800 pts in a season.

  • jeez

    You know damn well I was talking about post season. A team that can have the best record regardless of conference should have been capable of making it to the finals. You are delusional. Their best record was only a game better than the second best record, held by a western conference team. Think about that. And they would have the best record regardless of conference? Lmfaooo I can’t take you serious at all. Good day.

  • pposse

    and the 4 gms must be stupid too then. Transitive property right? okay.

  • pposse

    okay your right D Rose, Deng and co. should have beat up on Lebron, Wade, Bosh etc. good one. KD your boy got spanked by them too in the finals btw.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    nope they aren’t stupid. it just doesn’t support your case to list those 4 GM’s like that proves your point. they called him the best PG anyway, not the 2nd best player. so it really has nothing to do with your argument in the first place. keep picking and choosing only the things that kind of support your argument though. it really doesn’t look like you have some weird fan obsession with derrick rose at all. aren’t you a grown man?

  • pposse

    yeah thats why i stay away from personal attacks..something you and everyone in your sorry mob do consistently

    i dont know if its sad or commendable to have about 30 people try and act like you online. YOu remind me of the governor from that show the walking dead. dude was stupid, created this super fictitious city called ‘woodbury’ then when his people saw right thru him and had the opportunity to merk him they didn’t cause they are young.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    he outproduced KD at what? assists?

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=rosede01&y1=2011&p2=duranke01&y2=2013

    yep, just assists.
    .
    you are still wrong.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i don’t care. you want to argue like an idiot. i’m going to tell you that you are arguing like an idiot. you can’t insult anyone anyway, nobody else is saying things this outwardly stupid

  • pposse

    he did something only 3 players in nba history has done, plus had more offensive rebounds and led the team to more wins. KD had 20 more fg on 93 more minutes of play too. The volume of work Rose did (minus rebounds) is more and its plain as day. this is where the unstoppable force meets an immovable object. You won’t back off efficiency, i won’t back off the output.

    But the most important stat for your efficiency is PER, and just tell me how many of those so called leaders in PER are actually a top 10 bbal player of all time.

    Now do the same thing you did for Paul and you will see that D Rose outscores KD by 244 pts. (in 93 less minutes of play!).

  • pposse

    dont care. I just reponded to your post bro, that is all.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Kevin Durant scored 254 more points on 164 LESS shot attempts….who cares about minutes? Derrick Rose is shooting 2 more shots a game despite playing 1 less minute. you see what i mean just picking the stats that suit your argument? LOL, Durant was more productive, overall, with less possessions.
    .
    There is no “more volume” just because Durant played more minutes. Good lord man. Stop being so damn stupid.

  • LakeShow

    ha

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  • pposse

    you previously try and discredit by adding assists plus points when foolishly bringing up CP vs D Rose, but then completely negate that when talking about KD vs. Rose. Try again little buddy. Which one is it? Like i said 244 more pts on 93 less minutes is the output for Rose over KD.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    LOL, you added in a personal attack after you typed the initial comment? man, are you this childish on purpose? you just criticized me for personally attacking you, and then you went back later and added one of your own? man, that’s just pathetic.

  • pposse

    well sorry? can you accept that? If it bothers you then i am sorry. This whole thread is littered with insults that you btw started..your boy jeez continued and so forth. Just so you know, i am no saint eventually i’ll address all that if i see fit.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i don’t care if you insult me. just think it’s says a lot about your character that you think you can criticize someone for doing something, and then immediately follow suit and do that thing. and it sure doesn’t say anything good.

  • pposse

    okay sure. It also says a lot of one’s character when you project what you are unto others (ie: child, cocksucker etc.). Whatever, you still can’t find a counter for D rose’s pts + assist production over Kd’s. Still on that 2011 season wasn’t historic tip i see. Got it governor.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i’m just going to copy and paste because i’ve already covered all of this. please, read better. stop being this stupid.

    .

    “he outproduced KD at what? assists?

    http://www.basketball-referenc

    yep, just assists.”

    -

    “Kevin Durant scored 254 more points on 164 LESS shot attempts….who cares about minutes?”

  • pposse

    (before you say something stupid about the difference in points, let’s just assume every assists after 623 is 2 points, since i’m a nice guy……take the difference in assists (238), multiply that by 2, and you get 476 more points…..now, in contrast, player A scored 245 more points, so that leaves a net production difference of 231 points for player A…..do we need to go over the difference in steals and blocks too?)
    .

    i copied and pasted what you tried to do earlier. Why don’t you apply that same logic to the kd vs. d rose debate? Then you will realize how silly you sound maybe.

    NOW ADD that to the point production and see what happens.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    WHAT? Durant scored more points, on less shot attempts. That means he used less possessions. You know, possessions that were spent somewhere else….how do you really keep saying this while ignoring all other context? like shooting %…..Derrick Rose, a PG, attempted 50 more three’s than Kevin Durant…..the best scorer in the league (he also made 11 less). THAT’S NOT A GOOD THING.
    .
    why do you care so much about assists when comparing Durant to Rose? of course Rose had more assists, you see offensive rating? that shows which team offense was better when that player was on the court…..Durant’s 122 compared to Rose’s 113, show that per 100 possessions (so pace is irrelevant), Kevin Durant led offenses scored 122 points, while Rose’s scored 113. There is literally nothing more impressive about Derrick Rose as a player than Kevin Durant. Whether you want to accept it or not, you aren’t making yourself look any better by repeatedly bashing yourself on the head. Your argument is literally stupid.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    uhm, Durant attempted less shots to get those points. it doesn’t really prove anything to say Rose accounted for more points when he is using considerably more possessions….the Chris Paul example showed that Paul accounts for more points, while also taking up less possessions……..
    .
    think about it a little deeper duncecap.

  • pposse

    so your argument is on efficiency..great good for you. So by your faulty logic…David Robinson should be the 4th best player of all time. I never argued efficiency i argued output and shear volume. They are not the same do you understand that or no? if not then this convo is done. Go look up the words if need be.

  • pposse

    I thought about it. David Robinson must be the 4th best player of all time..you don’t know the difference between efficiency and volume at all. They are not one in the same. Darryl Johnston is also in our top 10 cool bro. Wade, he’s just the 6th best player of all time sure.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    uhm, Durant was MORE PRODUCTIVE AND MORE EFFICIENT.
    .
    comparing Durant to Rose isn’t the same as comparing Rose to Paul, using assists against Durant while ignoring all shooting %’s for Rose is intellectually broken. You are never going to get anyone else to think this way, and you aren’t making a point by trying to project this on other players. Either use all available information or just keep your very very stupid opinion to yourself.
    .

  • Max

    If Dwight will ever be 100% again he’d be top 3.

  • pposse

    Player A: 2,280 pts + 374 assists * 2 = 3,028 points

    Playber B: 2,026 pts + 623 assists * 2 = 3,272 points

    EDIT: Explain again how Player A is more productive? You need to put up points right to be productive, like more points? He was more efficient not more productive silly goose.

    You want to check usage percentage too? Stop just stop. It doesn’t matter if anyone thinks this way or any way. Like is said D rose had an historic year, not dupilcated by any other pg ever (outside of oscar robertson if he is considered one). I don’t rely on a mob to agree with me…just stating the facts. Like is said you have nothing on shear volume, just say what you want about efficiency, it don’t translate to more wins all the time and especially in KD’s case.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    again, you are ignoring %’s. and rebounds. and blocks. and steals. and all other context. it doesn’t prove your point to do that. you aren’t comparing 2 PG’s who both were in charge of offenses. Despite Durant not getting those assists, his team was still 9 points better per 100 possessions with him, than the Bulls were with Rose. You can’t call Rose a “more productive” player, when in reality, his team was less productive with him running the offense than Durant’s was using him as its first option.
    .
    context.
    context
    context
    context.
    .
    learn how to look at it.

  • Above_You

    But they made to the Finals in a tougher conference than Rose and the Bulls played in. In the post above dude’s, you bragged about them beating up the Heat in the regular season. Good one.

  • pposse

    D Rose is at 32% usage and KD at 30% still does not account for the more point production Rose had. If Rose played those extra 93 minues then there would have easily over a 300 point discrepancy. Your stance at the beginning was in no way shape or form KD’s season was comparable to D Rose’s. I gave more than enough reason to tell you otherwise. Take what you want with that information, but when a PG puts up a season that no other before him has done, don’t act like that can just be done by anyone.

  • Max

    Jeez, spoiler alert..

  • pposse

    yes but they lost to the same eventual champion in the miami heat. If the bulls were in the western conference and beat all teams and got to the finals then lost to the heat I would not be making this same argument at all.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW HOW USAGE % IS CALCULATED! why the f*ck would you cite a stat you don’t understand….

    “Usage Percentage (available since the 1977-78 season in the NBA); the formula is 100 * ((FGA + 0.44 * FTA +TOV) * (Tm MP / 5)) / (MP * (Tm FGA + 0.44 * Tm FTA + Tm TOV)).”

    -
    Assists are nowhere in that formula dumbass.

  • pposse

    okay so let me get this right usage percentage is NOT the estimates the percentage of his team’s possessions a player “uses” while he is in the game right? its not that at all, okay.

    So when a player uses more possessions its NOT logical that their efficiency will drop. Yup i dont knwo what im talking about.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    usage % is about the % of possessions that end with a certain player. so Rose’s usage is higher than Durant’s because he attempted more shots and had more turnovers. he “used”/ “ended” more possessions for a worse offense.
    .
    and uhm, Rose used more possessions and produced less points……..if you want to factor in assists, then he used way way way more possessions, it doesn’t prove anything to say a PG with a higher usage % in the first place, was involved in more of his team’s overall offense….unless you really need someone to explain the difference between a PG and SF to you?
    .
    i’ll just repeat this again, despite Rose using (ending) more possessions, Kevin Durant still accounted for more points. That’s how much more efficient he was. Whether you respect efficiency or not, Rose, even if you factor in assists, was so less efficient, that he helped his team less than Durant did.
    .
    that should be simple enough for even you to understand.

  • pposse

    the higher the usage percentage the lesser the efficiency. Either way, shear volume of output belongs to D Rose and 30% of the time a possession for the Thunder ended with Durant while 32% of the time a possession ended with D Rose. Just cause assists dont factor in doesn’t mean you can’t correlate usage percetage and overall volume of work. And Rose did NOT have more turnovers then KD check your stats homie. So yeah explain to me the difference from SF and a PG cause apparently KD likes to turn the ball over equally as much as D Rose a PG.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Kevin Durant ended 2% less possessions than Rose….and Durant had literally a top 3 scoring season ever, efficiency wise…………

    and the turnover thing, goodness do you really just go by bulk numbers? i’m talking about usage %, Rose turned the ball over more often (slightly) while on the court. which made his usage %, slightly higher. just listed assists for the context of usage %. i mean, please please, just try and look at this in context. just try.

  • pposse

    the context of the whole argument was that 2010-2011 season for D Rose was no where near 2012-2013 season for KD. I already stated my reasons as to why 10-11 season was just as good if not better than KD’s last season.

    The only thing you are proving is that yes KD was more efficient. I agree with that, but I do not agree he had a better season. From the teams perspective the Bulls had a better record and went further in the playoffs in 10-11 than the Thunder in 12-13. Yes Westbrook was injured, but with that small sample size of 5 games KD played without Westbrook (where he was pretty much Point Forward) you can maybe get a little appreciation of all that Rose actually does for a team and what he has done over an 82 game span.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yeah it wasn’t. Durant was considerably better. More productive. Way more efficient. Larger number of win shares, better offensive rating, better defensive rating, used less possessions. pretty much everything is in Durant’s favor, but bulk numbers in the assist and field goals attempted column.

  • Max

    maxime_renaux@hotmail.com
    If there’s still place.

  • pposse

    with all that KD and the Thunder still did not win as much as the Bulls int he regular season or the playoffs. There is more than one way to win games. Your choice of logic states that David Robinson is the 2nd best C of all time and 4 best player ever. Efficiency is overrated like a mofo. I orginally stated that D Rose is better at winning…only to back up my claim by showing you that he produced more in terms of volume and total output than KD and towards more victories..not that he produced more on less possessions, he produced more period. No number disputes that at all.

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    sent

  • http://soundcloud.com/tray-8 T-Ray

    Its just head-head factoring in points, fg%, rebounds, assits, etc. What’s your email? I think I have room.

  • pposse

    dude if he was in control of the offense the way D Rose was his TO would sky rocket. Its nice how you try to leave that out, and for the last time it don’t matter if the fga column is more! output bro got damn.

  • pposse

    what made his usg% higher was the more fga not the turnovers. He had less turnovers than KD overall. If KD was in a position where he was forced to take nearly 160 more shots (from not having Westbrook or a player of that calibur) its all but guaranteed his TO rate goes up and fg% goes down. Maybe just maybe this can help exemplify what D Rose did and how valuable he actually was..probably not tho.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Man you need to learn how to do math then go back and look at usage % again. I’m not going to entertain you ignorantly just assuming your broken opinion about a f*cking mathematic formula is right. It’s not.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    what? i didn’t include that because Durant isn’t a PG….expecting him to do that is unrealistic. just like expecting Derrick Rose to guard Small Forwards and Power Forwards is unrealistic. At the things they are asked to do, Durant is better. And why would output outweigh volume to get said output? so, your saying, if i shoot 10 thousand jumpers and make 900, i’m a better shooter than someone who shoots 1 thousand and makes 899? i mean, that is the definition of stupid. congratulations.

  • pposse

    no, thats not what i am saying. Try again, you must be stupid if thats what you thought I said.

    Durant is the main offensive weapon on the Thunder, its not out of this world to ask him to get more assists. In fact, word out of the KD camp is that he is trying to become more of a facilitator this year, you know..do things D Rose did and does while doing the same thing that he do..which Rose already does to an extent (25ppg). Output and volume are synonymous and both don’t equal efficiency. Efficiency is something else, what you are trying to argue.

  • Free

    Even in his prime Orlando days I just wasn’t impressed still lacked the post game u would expect from the league’s best center he was a beast on boards on blocks but can u honestly say when at his best he’s better than any of the guys I put b4 him when they are at their best?

  • Free

    Rephrase that, not better but effective

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    word out of the KD camp is that he will be more of a facilitator until Westbrook gets back….just like in the playoffs.
    .
    you know, where he averaged 30 points, 9 rebounds and 6 assists…..i mean, if you want to have a just flat production argument, the playoffs are clear evidence that Durant has the capability to be much more productive than Derrick Rose on a regular basis. But hey, it is what is it.
    .
    and by the way, 70% of NBA GM’s voted Chris Paul as the best PG in the league….so using the 13% who didn’t, really really didn’t help your argument. Also, none voted Derrick Rose as the PG they’d like to build around (Kyrie Irving got that honor), and none voted him a more tough player to gameplan against then say, Chris Paul…..so, uhm….yeah.using the GM’s earlier, really really didn’t help your argument.

  • Free

    It seems that everyone thinks its LeBron Durant and everyone else but after seeing him without Westbrook he didn’t seem as unstoppable anymore, ironically. But mostly I feel people forget just how good Rose was, he has already developed a consistent jump shot took LeBron years to do that. Rose has the potential to be the closest thing to unstoppable and I honestly believe if not for injuries he would’ve surpassed Durant AND LeBron by now.

  • pposse

    they had the same amount of turnovers dummy! That means the turnover portion of that formula is constant! The only difference is the fga. I know my math just fine, you should refrain from teaching math, or statistics seeing as you barely know how to interpret them.

  • pposse

    and without being a PG he had 2 more TO’s then a scoring pg, riddle me that too.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    do you see MP or nah? you think that stands for minutes played? you think having the same turnovers with more minutes played is weighed the same?
    .
    talk about dummy. seriously, learn how to do math.

  • pposse

    Its funny I mentioned the same thing when in 2012 he had 23 9 and 9 which are virtually identical numbers, but you wafted at the idea of that being a logical basis to base stats off of. Pick and choose bro!

    but 6 did vote D Rose as the best PG in the league. Picking and choosing numbers just like I was accused of.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    he played more minutes and doesn’t handle the ball as well…..he’s not a point guard.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    what? i just said that to compare it to your argument. i didn’t actually say it because i felt like it was relevant. do you not at all have the ability to look at things from more than one perspective? i feel like i’m talking to a still narcissistic 12 year old.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    picking and choose numbers? i’m just listing the numbers you conveniently left out…are you this worked up that you can’t even put 2 and 2 together? all i did was show what you left out, you know, the thing you are accusing me of doing. i didn’t do it to say, look how the GM’s feel compared to you. i did it to show how much you did leave out. as i hadn’t seen it before just now.

  • pposse

    they both average around .09 turnovers per minute (Rose = .0909 and KD = .0893)…which makes the Minutes played negligible. Basically a guy who you are telling me does not have the ball as much as D Rose is committing turnovers at the same rate which goes against what you are trying to get at. Like i said the higher USG% is from FGA which D rose is burdened to do along with assisting.

  • pposse

    okay first of all, you have to see what that @jeez was trying to argue. His argument broke down into ‘D Rose doesn’t have to play against stiffer competition’ and bla bla…from that point onwards I should have just stopped, all I was trying to prove to him was if his comp was so watered down then why are GMs – people that make real bball decisions for money in real life giving him praise as the best pg even if it was 4 or so. I should have just let it go. I understand it had nothing to do with everything else I presented, but he dumbed down the whole argument and i stupidly complied.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    the turnovers from rose still weigh more negatively than durant’s in usage %….it doesn’t have to be a big difference to be a difference. and that is all i said, he was weighed more negatively because he shoots and turns the ball over more. nothing wrong about that statement.

  • pposse

    I’ve saw that poll too, if some of these guys want to build a team around kyrie thats fine, I dont agree with it, but 20% of gms say D Rose is the best PG in the league. That number will change by next yr is my prediction to 100%. I mean the guy didn’t even play a regular season game for over a year and 20% say he’s the best pg in the game. that in and of itself speaks volume.

  • pposse

    if i was 12 and was able to say all this then you would be talking to a genius

  • Free

    Honestly, sometimes its bigger than the numbers. Chris Paul is the best example of that. Especially effiency (I.e. Iverson and Kobe back in the day).
    Just follow these two guys this season you’ll understand why I believe this.
    Plus Durant definitely isn’t better than Rose in everything under the basketball banner specifically defense

  • Free

    Another reason I feel this way is because of how Westbrook often makes Durant look like the second option and we all know DRose is essentially a better Westbrook even though Westbrook has come a long (not that long thou) way from those awful 2011 playoffs

  • LakeShow

    Your hurting my head… stop…

    Durant is a way better defender than Rose. Not even close.

    What about efficiency and CP, Iverson and KB?? They all are completely different players.

  • pposse

    truth will hurt your head sometimes, fight thru it and see the light

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    Is it on yahoo? My email is ExistePotamu@yahoo.com

  • LakeShow

    This is a joke, right?

    You don’t honestly think he’s better than KD, right?

  • pposse

    I think its highly debatable. Both players rep opposite ends of the bball spectrum and they rep them both very well. Imo d rose mental makeup is superior which shortens the efficiency gap

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    My problem isn’t with your prediction. It’s with your misuse of evidence/stats to try and prove your prediction. I don’t at all rule out Rose ascending to that point. Just don’t think, and definitely can’t prove, he’s there yet

  • Irfan

    They don’t play the same spot but I do not think he’s more valuable than Tony Parker right now. As for D-Rose or Kobe or Melo (who seems high at #4), I don’t know.

  • rhys

    u just dont get it bruh…the avatar is a poet/ entrepreneur known as pusha t, my name is my name, educate yourself son..i thought i would be able to guess your ethnicty but then you would know what a slaver was haha

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    pusha t bro legend in two games like im pee wee kirkland. never was a fan of the clipse

    use to like dipset killa cam’s flow but rap music and music ive outgrown. had tinnitus from the subs that kinda went away.

    are you part of the ASAP movement or the CYMP$E movement

  • shaylynnvacca321

    My Uncle Brody recently got an
    almost new white Subaru Impreza WRX STI by working part-time from a macbook
    air… important site J­a­m­2­0­.­ℂ­o­m

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  • John Bocanegra

    Sad thing is, I don’t think there will be a passing of the torch. There is such things as a flame just burning itself out. And just like Dwight with the Lakers, there may be a little bit too much hype with this.
    It shouldn’t have to be “if he plays like this”, you shouldn’t have to question what he can do.
    Sometimes you just know. I won’t be sold til the break.

  • Dundler

    I think you lost all credibility by saying Rose may have surpassed Lebron by now

  • Free

    I dont think thats too far fetched thou pointless to really argue cuz we will never know which is sad but i do think 100% he wouldve surpassed KD by or at the very least be 50/50 when it comes to who is no 2 to LeBron

  • Dundler

    @disqus_rOeXXBD2qs:disqus pointed this out the other day, but Rose’s best season ever didn’t come close to Durant last season.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Rose’s best MONTH ever is not close to Durant’s entire season…..actually.

  • Free

    Im stop debating bc i realize im basing it on what ifs and thats pretty pointless.
    I do feel Rose is only getting better and has more untapped porential than Durant but ill leave it at that
    I just hope my high opinion of DRose doesnt get me associated wit that pposse guy who seems to be pretty hated around here lol

  • Dundler

    my bad

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    yeah it is. lol

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  • rhys

    haha im part of the good kush and alcohol movement

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    you’ll regret it later for using intoxicants

  • rhys

    i can not predict the future neither can you

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    you are right. but smoking has deterimental effects and more lesions you introduce into your body now will accumlate and can lead to cancer. alcohol will rip your liver apart

  • Person

    Hmmm… Coming 5th on the Slam Top 50 Players list. It’s time for this star to step up his game.

  • rhys

    and being sobre at all times would bore me to death or maybe the stress will give me cancer?

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    Read search for truth. Boredom doesn’t give you cancer smoking gives you either squamous cell or small cell carcinoma.

  • AddingVelocityDontTellMe

    smoking has a higher chance of giving you cancer than boredom.

    Go to the library and start reading and search for truth. Maybe start of by reading the most famous books in history and then working your way from there.

    Your atoms come from the stars bro. Everything that is in you comes from space. Use your brain to think. I never had teachers really make me like enjoying learning. It was always a numbers game for grades, but when i started reading and was able to understand it changed a lot of my approaches to life.

    Trust me bro don’t let your mind go to waste. Read the most famous books in Human History (like religious books) just to see why they are popular. then go on from there.

    Musicians rappers are humans breath the same air as you and me. I don’t know if you ever heard a rapper by the name Trouble but he goes super hard when he spits ( i don’t listen to rap anymore but i got that idea from him). Its easy to make metaphors and spit bars and have swag. Just get some money and start comparing females to animals and drug game to anything white suburban kids will find cool.

    you may think why do i care? you’ll know in the future.

  • Brian

    1. Lebron
    2. Durant
    3. Rose
    4. CP3
    5. Kobe
    6. Harden
    7. Howard
    8. Westbrook
    9. Carmelo
    10. Wade
    11. Parker
    12. Kyrie

  • gaaaaaaaaabriel

    Am i the only one who thinks this rating is really overrated…

  • Gavin Manasco

    I completely agree with James Harden as the best shooting guard in the NBA. I do disagree the Klay Thompson isn’t a top 5 shooting guard. I just got this months issue and they rated him in the top 5 out of all shooting guards, but the website doesn’t even rank him in the top 10. Seriously?

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