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Friday, October 26th, 2012 at 12:00 pm  |  179 responses

Top 50: Dwyane Wade, no. 6

The definitive ranking of the NBA’s best players for ’12-13.

by Maurice Bobb / @ReeseReport

When a player reaches double-digit years in the NBA, the substantiality of their professional career worth boils down to one simple equation:

career points + career rebounds + career assists ÷ Championships = legacy

As he enters his 10th season in the League, Dwyane Wade, who moves down one spot from last year’s No. 5 ranking to this year’s No. 6 ranking on our list, has his eyes on the legacy he’ll leave as a player in the L. Don’t believe it? Just look at his move from Jordan Brand, a sneaker built by his childhood hero, Michael Jordan, the man he patterned his game by, to little known sneaker outfit, Li-Ning. In a word, the whole move was all about his legacy.

And for all of his masterful, YouTube-worthy Euro steps, his blow by moves to the rack, his posterizing dunks over unsuspecting defenders—that means you, Anderson Varajeo, his crafty step back J’s, his unrelenting acrobatics in the lane, his in-your-face, sticky like fly paper, one-on-one defense, for Flash, it all comes down to the numbers he’s posted with the only team he’s ever suited up for: The Miami Heat.

Let’s do the math, shall we?

Over the course of nine years, Wade has amassed 14, 990 points, 3,020 rebounds and 3,697 assists over 596 career games (2,776 points, 619 rebounds and 586 assists over 110 career Playoff games). And for the cherry on top? Wade has 1,055 steals and 611 blocks (182 steals and 125 blocks in the postseason).

He has two Larry O’Brien trophies. One Finals MVP trophy. Eight All-Star appearances. And this can’t be overlooked, one free-agency coup de grâce.

To those that think it was mere coincidence that Chris Bosh and LeBron James defected to South Beach from Toronto and Cleveland, respectively, simply because of Pat Riley or, for the warm weather, know this: they went to the 305 for one reason and one reason only: to play with Dwyane Wade. Of the NBA’s most celebrated and hated triumvirate, Wade it its elder statesman. He’s the face. He’s the soul. He’s the OG. And all OGs know the ultimate key to everything athletes are seeking in the professional ranks. It’s the immutable truth. It’s the golden rule.

The path to greatness is along with others.

To those “experts” who would balk at such an idea, there is this undisputed fact: no one has ever done anything on their own. No one. Not MJ, not Magic, not Bird, not anyone.

So when the choices were laid out in front of him, like food à la carte on a buffet table at the Sizzler, who did the Chosen One choose to join on his way to erasing the gaping hole in life? What kingdom did King James choose to join to climb that last mountain to an NBA title?

Dwyane Wade’s kingdom.

That’s the ultimate arbiter in the curious case of DWade.

The numbers, they all count. And it matters that he’s missed games due to injury. As this season begins, he’ll be making his way back from his second surgery on the same knee. And it also matters that, unlike LBJ, he is on the other side of his prime. But even with all of that, Wade is still a top-five player in the NBA. Sure, he had to be bumped to No. 6 for this list, but for me, I can’t put him below No. 5A in my mind.

Need a big play? Call on Wade. Need someone to clear it out and hit the game-winner? Draw one up for Wade. Need a lockdown defender to shut down the other team’s top scorer? Turn Wade loose on him. In a League chockfull of stats and metrics and definable qualities by which to judge a player, Wade is indescribable. He’s in a class of his own.

And when it comes to taking the credit, he passes it onto his teammates. Ain’t that just like DWade? Word to Jay-Z.

And after 10 years of excellence, opulence, decadence (still on my Hov ish) at the two guard spot, Wade is still a competitive force of nature.

And although the Heat is LeBron’s team now, Wade is still the one everyone—you, me, the team, the fans, hell, even LBJ—relies on to finish the game.

Win it for us, DWade.

He’s still the one players come to for advice. If LeBron is the Commander-in-Chief, he’s still the Five-Star General. He’s the one who’s actually been to war. He’s still the one who brought Miami its first ever NBA title. Miami will forever be his house.

He’s Dwyane, not Dwayne. Even the way he spells his name makes more sense now to the good folks at Scripps than the way the Rock spells his.

Wade changed the game and the name.

Now, how’s that for a legacy?


Where should Dwyane Wade rank in the SLAMonline Top 50?

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SLAMonline Top 50 Players 2012
Rank Player Team Position Pos. Rank
50 Greg Monroe Pistons C 8
49 Tyreke Evans Kings PG 14
48 Brandon Jennings Bucks PG 13
47 Stephen Curry Warriors PG 12
46 Ricky Rubio TWolves PG 11
45 Al Jefferson Jazz PF 14
44 Anthony Davis Hornets PF 13
43 Serge Ibaka Thunder PF 12
42 Al Horford Hawks C 7
41 Ty Lawson Nuggets PG 10
40 Danny Granger Pacers SF 6
39 Tim Duncan Spurs PF 11
38 John Wall Wizards PG 9
37 Monta Ellis Bucks SG 8
36 Zach Randolph Grizzlies PF 10
35 Roy Hibbert Pacers C 6
34 Tyson Chandler Knicks C 5
33 Eric Gordon Hornets SG 7
32 Kevin Garnett Celtics PF 9
31 Manu Ginobili Spurs SG 6
30 Amar’e Stoudemire Knicks PF 8
29 Marc Gasol Grizzlies C 4
28 DeMarcus Cousins Kings C 3
27 Paul Pierce Celtics SF 5
26 Andre Iguodala Nuggets SG 5
25 Rudy Gay Grizzlies SF 4
24 Josh Smith Hawks PF 7
23 Derrick Rose Bulls PG 8
22 Joe Johnson Nets SG 4
21 Steve Nash Lakers PG 7
20 James Harden Thunder SG 3
19 Pau Gasol Lakers PF 6
18 Chris Bosh Heat PF 5
17 Kyrie Irving Cavs PG 6
16 LaMarcus Aldridge Blazers PF 4
15 Tony Parker Spurs PG 5
14 Dirk Nowitzki Mavs PF 3
13 Andrew Bynum Sixers C 2
12 Blake Griffin Clippers PF 2
11 Kevin Love TWolves PF 1
10 Carmelo Anthony Knicks SF 3
9 Russell Westbrook Thunder PG 4
8 Rajon Rondo Celtics PG 3
7 Deron Williams Nets PG 2
6 Dwyane Wade Heat SG 2

Notes
• Rankings are based solely on projected ’12-13 performance.
• Contributors to this list include: Jake Appleman, Maurice Bobb, Rodger Bohn, Brendan Bowers, Franklyn Calle, David Cassilo, Bryan Crawford, Adam Figman, Eldon Khorshidi, Eddie Maisonet III, Ryne Nelson, Ben Osborne, Allen Powell II, Sam Rubenstein, Jonathan Santiago, Abe Schwadron, Leo Sepkowitz, Dave Spahn, Ben Taylor, Tzvi Twersky, Peter Walsh, Tracy Weissenberg, Yaron Weitzman, DeMarco Williams and Dave Zirin.
• Want more of the SLAMonline Top 50? Check out the archive.

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  • JML-G

    DWade is still the truth

  • D.Wade

    Great Write up D.Wade still the man

  • ripslam

    Kobe will not have a better season than Wade. Fact.

  • Caboose

    Facts:
    1. Wade has had a higher PER than Kobe the past 4 years.
    2. Wade has had higher steals, higher blocks, better defensive rating, and more defensive win shares the past 4 years.
    3. Wade has had a higher FG% the past 4 years.
    4. Kobe has played in 94% of all games the past 4 years. Wade has played in 90%.
    5. Wade has had a higher offensive rating and more offensive win shares the past 4 years.
    6. Kobe has NEVER had as many win shares/48 minutes as Wade did last year.
    7. Kobe shot more often in games that the Lakers lost last year.
    Now, Lakers fans, I would like you to make a fact-based, intelligent argument for why Kobe has been better. It cannot be based on mere subjectives, because if Kobe is still truly top 5, then surely there are facts out there to prove your point. I would be happy to reevaluate my way of thinking, but I have a plethora of information that proves me right. Please, prove me wrong.

  • Perry the PlatyPteranodon

    In two years Dwayne Wade became Dwyane Wade and Hey!

  • arjae828

    Wade hasn’t been a lock-down defender in years. and he hasn’t been a closer since LBJ and all the scrutiny came. Still gets buckets with the best of them though.

  • Perry the PlatyPteranodon

    Awww don’t do em like that…. aww boy you killin’ em.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    uh oh, the poll results indicate the legion of Kobeites is starting to fade….or they see something obvious…or maybe they are still sleeping? It is 9:20am in LA right now

  • http://twitter.com/elconquizztador El ConquiZtador

    then who’s on 5-1 spot?

  • charliewinning

    There really isn’t any excuse to put Kobe in the top five. If this is based on projections and not reputation, Slam isn’t doing a good job of showing that with this.

  • Omar

    Wade is better than Kobe offensively, defensively and athletically so…

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    in order, James – Durant – Howard – Paul – Bryant.

  • NYC bully

    I can have wade over Kobe dis year wade looks healthy but slam how u dwill over Westbrook lol

  • spit hot fiyah

    his knee is the big ? mark

  • NYC bully

    Like I hear yesterday from the great miller have too much nerds never played basketball doing too stats reading like Denver could win the west wtf some have kd35 better than James

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    because Williams will probably be better than Westbrook.

  • JR

    5 titles. All I gotta say.

  • booo

    rondo baby !

  • Caboose

    Ok, that’s 0/1 for Lakes fans. Anyone else wanna try? Or should I explain why JR’s argument is not satisfactory?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    why tho? it doesn’t prove anything about this season. that is the stupidest argument Kobe fan’s use ad nauseum.

  • Drig

    Again, as I said in another thread, the higher FG% makes little sense when you consider that Wade puts up more shots at the rim and Kobe at the perimeter because his team demands it.

    DWade’s a better defender than Kobe over the course of the season now. No two ways about it.

    And am pretty sure win shares etc. are gonna be based on boxscores. I don’t know that for certain but if they are, Kobe had a tough break in the MPG-AST-FG% department. If they aren’t, skip the next two paragraphs.

    LAL was among the worst at shooting from deep last season and I know how many bricks could’ve easily been written as assists for Kobe had Metta/Fish/Blake etc. didn’t have a subpar shootiing season ( look it up. All 3 of them shot below their career averages ).

    Kobe’s minutes killed him as the season progressed. He was flat out balling till the end of January and then minutes caught up with him. That destroyed his FG% in the middle months as it was clear that he didn’t have his legs underneath him ( which also killed his 4th quarter production along with idiotic shot jacking at the most inopportune time )

    Kobe HAD to shoot more often in games that the Lakers lost last year MOST OF THE TIME ( Denver and Detroit are plain old gunning ) as the rest of the players were not good. Honestly, I’ve seen this excuse time and again and most don’t see how the team’s doing when Kobe shoots many shots.

    Why I think Kobe will have a better season compared to last? Simple. Less minutes + Nash to help create on O + Metta/Nash converting a decent number of 3pt shots Kobe gets them + Kobe getting less doubles and more open looks and backdoor cuts to drain courtesy of Nash + the lesser minutes helping his jumpshot + him not taking 3-4 3pt shots per game + him actually showing an inclination to create shots for others this preseason + him not having to exclusively handle the ball and create for others ( which accounted for a good number of TOs ) + him not having to exclusively take bailout shots ( which he did last season. 1-2 per game. That should NEVER happen with this team ) = More efficient and less awkward Kobe Bryant.

    Efficient enough to surpass Wade? I don’t know. But the upside of the role Kobe will play esp. after the team gels might’ve had a role in this. Just like DWill’s case.

  • booooo

    You want to know why he is higher??? because its a prediction… get over – they think kobe will be better than wade next year – with dwight and nash – why not?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    what kind of crackhead ass response was that?

  • justin05

    Slam knows best. Good write-up Maurice. I’m sure we are all anticipating the write-up for Kobe though. He’s next.

  • Lorne

    “Dwayne Wayne became Dwayne Wade”. It was in reference to the geeky black kid from A Different World…You’re welcome.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Great writeup. I’m glad the point was made about no one doing it on their own. If Jordan couldn’t do it alone, then people should shut up about LeBron’s move. I still think D-Wade at 100% is better than Kobe at 100% and has been for 4 seasons. The last time he was 100% was 2 seasons ago when he and LeBron were trying not to step on each other’s toes. Now he’s completely healthy and has a clearly defined role. I predict 24, 6 and 6 on 50% shooting this season and I see moments where he flashes back to being the number one guy if LeBron has any struggles. I don’t see Kobe having a better season. I think people are subconsciously partial towards Kobe because of his accomplishments. The usual characters will come here and agree with Kobe being better without any facts to back them up. There is no case that can be made for Kobe besides scoring more. I have yet to hear anyone say anything other than he has more rings and scores more. Those two arguments are lousy ones to make given that if Wade wanted to shoot 25 times a game, he would probably outscore Kobe given that he’s a more efficient player.

  • Drig

    LOL….Give it some time. Once Kobe’s thread comes up and he’s rated as “should be better than no.5″, you’ll know that all’s right with the world again :D

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    I heard him say that too last night.

  • Lorne

    Translation, please? Some of us only speak English.

  • justin05

    I guess it depends who is holding the trophy come June. Because to Wade and Kobe, that is the epitome of a “better” season.

  • Drig

    You do know that Efficiency + More minutes = Less efficiency……..And no, Wade was not significantly more efficient than Kobe at any range last season except 3s which was due to fatigue. And he certainly ain’t more efficient from different parts of the field than a Kobe who’s minutes are regulated. By Kobe, I mean a Kobe who respects his teammates. Like this season. The only thing that separates them is Kobe taking more shots from the perimeter to help out his team while Wade takes more shots at the rim to help his team. Simple.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Here we go.

  • booo

    oh and the poll came – NBK should get a job???

  • Monkeyball

    Not a fact. A prediction. Know the difference?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Kobe shooting too many shots get’s the team out of rhythm. And you can’t say “as the rest of the players were not good” – 2 of his teammates are in the top 20 on this list. It’s not like he was jacking up shots instead of passing to Kwame Brown. He was jacking up shots instead of running an offense that featured the most potent front court in the league. A front court that won 2 titles while Kobe wasn’t jacking up AS MANY shots. There is a reason that Kobe’s worst seasons in terms of team performance coincide perfectly with his 2 highest seasons in terms of shots per game. And he is not supposed to shoot contested 20 footers, whatever gave you that idea needs to go away. Kobe shoots a lower percentage than Wade because his shot selection is just a notch above outfit selections of a 3 year old. Wade gets to the rim and attempts more shots there because he is a more disciplined offensive player. Honestly, you can’t try and make up an excuse to for why Kobe shoots a bad % from the floor, there is no acceptable excuse for a player of that skill level to be that inefficient. Kobe thinks he’s better than he is. His uber confidence is what has made him so great, and it is also what makes him so overrated.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    nbk is getting paid to type this comment. how you doin?

  • Monkeyball

    Statistically, nos. 7-10 are likely to have better regular seasons than Wade. Even if this is because Wade has made a conscious decision to defer to Lebron, it should be reflected in the ranking. Right?

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    D-Wade shot 50%. Kobe shot 43%. Nothing else really needs to be said, but I’ll go on. If Kobe was “fatigued”, he should have stopped shooting threes and gotten the ball down low to the best frontline in basketball. He chose to shoot bad shots. A lot of them weren’t necessary. D-Wade shot 50% in 2010-2011, Kobe shot 45%. The season before that D-Wade shot 48%, Kobe shot 46%. In 08-09, D-Wade averaged 30 points on 49%. Kobe averaged 27 on 47%. D-Wade shoots smart shots.

  • JR

    1) Kobe’s career points: 29,484> Dwade career points: 14,990
    2) Kobe 1 MVP>Dwayne Wade 0 MVP
    3) Kobe 2 Finals MVP> Dwayne Wade 1 finals MVP
    4) Kobe 4 All Star MVP> Dwayne Wade 1 Allstar MVP
    5) Kobe 10x All NBA first team>Dwayne Wade 2x All NBA first team.

    I could go on all day.

  • JR

    I hope noone responds to this, I’m trolling hard. Apologies.

  • justin05

    Yeah JR, 5 titles means nothing about this debate. Everybody here knows that Kobe has a greater legacy than Wade. As far as I’m concerned there isn’t a debate anymore though. Slam has spoken. It will be interesting to see the write up on Kobe but I’m just excited to watch this season unfold. I’m done arguing about it until the season actually has started but read Drig’s comment and you’ll see why we think Kobe will outperform Wade in his new role.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Kobe’s career averages: 25 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists, 45% FG. D-Wade’s career averages: 25 points, 5 rebounds, 6 assists. 49% FG.

  • booo

    i’m doing great, thanks for asking – i’ve had a busy day at work, but i’m relaxing now. what are you up to later, sweet heart???

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    wait, was that supposed to be funny? why are you involving yourself in this weird conversation? are you mad about Kobe?

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    That confidence was great when he was 26. Not so great now that he’s 34. He’s almost in denial about the decline of his game although it’s easy to see watching him play.

  • Lorne

    Who compared careers? You’re arguing points no one made. Everything you posted is irrelevent to this particular conversation. This is about who will have the better season this year. Nothing you’ve posted supports your argument that Wade shouldn’t be ahead of Kobe. Have a good day.

  • Caboose

    That’s what I wanted to see! I like that argument, but I don’t think it’s fair to allow Kobe so many “excuses” for what happened. My counter points would be:
    1. Adding a play making point guard almost always causes the 2 guard’s assists to drop. I find it unlikely that Kobe will increase his assists while decreasing his ball handling responsibility and turnovers. You can’t have both.
    2. Kobe was not without offensive weapons last season. Him taking bailout shots is a reflection of how he didn’t utilize his All Star teammates (if he was the primary playmakers as most LA fans assert).
    3. Dwight will take rebounds away from Kobe.
    4. You can’t use shot selection to justify poor percentages. If you take bad shots, youll shoot worse. Wade takes better shots. This is support for Wade.
    5. You’re potentially drawing a faulty cause and effect between poor shooting from teammates and Kobe’s assist totals. Maybe they had a poorer shooting season because Kobe didn’t pass as well. I’m not saying this is the case, but correlation can’t prove causation.

  • booo

    oh someone needs a hug or a little belly tickle.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    - Kobe – 17 years in the NBA, age 34
    - Wade – 9 years in the NBA, age 30
    — This is about this season, those two numbers are much more important than any career accomplishments in this conversation. But keep going, at least you are fun to laugh at.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Reggie Miller said that nerds with too many numbers shouldn’t be trying to decide who’s better than who or making any other predictions. Someone predicted that the Nuggets would win the West. Reggie thought it was ridiculous so he made that comment.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    this is bizarre. when i loaded the page and typed that, it said the comment was from Justin 05 not you. weird as f*ck slam.

  • JR

    Kobe 6’6” > Wade 6’4”. Nuff said.

  • Drig

    2 of his teammates are in the top 20 but the spacing nullified the effect it had on the team. Pau played more around the paint. Bynum clogged the middle. Kobe had to play on the perimeter. And I said he shot more times when the rest of the team didn’t show up and the Lakers lost. Which is true.

    Bynum and Pau averaged almost many shots as Dwight did last season when you factor in the minutes played. Both Bynum’s and Pau’s usage rate was also in the 20s ( 23 and 22 ) compared to Dwight’s (26). Kobe’s was 35 and Metta and Fish were 15 and 11 resp. The difference was that Pau was pushed more towards the 16-23ft area ( 2 FGA in 2011 vs 4 FGA in 2012 ) to help Kobe with spacing the floor for Bynum to man the paint. Which was easier said than done with Metta and Fisher’s FG% plummeting. So tell me if you want Kobe taking the shot over Metta or Fisher. I’d be happy with Kobe taking it.

    Bynum and Pau’s usage rates weren’t too low. The way they were used by Brown and the locations they were put in on the floor to let their offense flow was the mistake. Also, as said previously, Kobe’s usage rate is gonna drastically fall down this season with Nash.

    There is another reason why Kobe’s two best individual seasons were also his worst team success wise. It’s called facing a better team which let him go crazy and shut down everyone else. And it worked.

    Yes. Both of us agree that Kobe should not shoot contested 20 foot shots. But when Metta, Fish shoot around 35-45% on free open 23ft shots, Pau shoots 43% on free open 23ft shots and Kobe shoots around 40% on contested 20 ft shoots, there’s a problem.

    Kobe, for better or worse, loses confidence in his teammates quickly. Esp. the role players. That everyone knows. As long as they hit their open shots, Kobe’s gonna be controlled and his shot selection is gonna be under check 90% of the time. It’s on them to knock down a sizable chunk of open looks.

    One thing which you definitely are right about is Kobe being too sure of himself. That has destroyed LAL’s Q4 performances in many games. 37% when the opposing team knows what’s gonna come 9 times outta 10 ain’t bad but for the sake of the team, I hope he realizes that 45% on 5 times outta 10 + more laker wins only helps the team improve.

  • Lorne

    I know what Reggie said. The question is, what the hell language did NYC bully attempt to quote Reggie in? We use a thing called grammar in English.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    - Kobe Bryant:
    Height: 6-4.75
    Wingspan: 6-11
    Standing Reach: 8-9 (1 inch shoe adjusted)
    Hand Length: 9.125″
    .
    - Dwyane Wade:Height: 6-3.75 (2003 draft at age 21)
    Wingspan: 6-10.75
    Standing Reach: 8-5 (1 inch shoe adjusted)

    .
    Which is irrelevant given Wade’s obvious advantage in athletic ability. But keep going, lol.

  • booo

    oohhhhh, you are hilarious – i’m in love x

  • Lorne

    We all know that listed height ends all basketball debates, no what what is actually being debated. For example: “Nash is a better shooter than Iguodala”. “Iggy 6’7”> Nash “6’3′. Nuff said”

  • justin05

    Nerds shouldn’t try to decide who is better based upon numbers and statistics. Yet you and Caboose still try to bring up numbers on the Kobe vs. Wade debate lol

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    If Bynum and Gasol had been involved along with the other teammates throughout those games, they would have been in rhythm at the end of games. Kobe’s teammates are the ones who should lose confidence in him before he loses it in them. Many times I’ve seen Gasol just throw his hands up as if he knows Kobe won’t even look to pass him the ball. The funniest part is after he puts up a bad shot, he looks around as if the refs should bail him out with a foul call or he looks to his teammates as if he had no choice but to shoot the ball and it’s their fault.

  • JR

    Kobe Bryant career earnings: $221,435,108 > Dwayne Wade career earnings: $85,466,666. What are you talking about bro, Nash is a way better shooter than Iguodala. Check the stats,

  • justin05

    I haven’t responded to your comment so that is weird. Slam could be experiencing comment overload. This thread is going to have 200+ comments before Kobe is ranked lol. Btw, I think you do need a hug or something nbk, you have more negative emotions and opinions towards Kobe than I have positive.

  • JR

    Dwayne Wade plays in lady tights, Kobe doesn’t. Therfore Kobe is greater than DWade.

  • Lorne

    Sarcasm must be really hard for you to grasp.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Kobe played in those same “lady tights” quite a few times throughout the last couple of seasons.

  • Perry the PlatyPteranodon

    Thank you, I was actually unaware of that being something other than a Kanye West reference because growing up in Canada, I did not frequently watch A Different World.

  • Drig

    1. Adding a playmaking PG almost always causes the 2 guard’s assists to drop if he was only the playmaker on the team before the PG came. For many possessions, Kobe was both the PG and the SG for that Laker team. The team had no bench. No outside scoring and hence, Kobe went off ( and it backfired ).

    Now, with Metta’s stroke looking better and Nash being an obvious upgrade, 4-5 of the shots Kobe took last season are gonna find their way into Nash’s hands and am pretty sure he converts atleast 2 of them.

    You’re right about increasing AST and decreasing TO part. I’m taking a leap of faith here but with LAL’s TOs this preseason, I might have to live with the TOs lol.

    2. Kobe was without perimeter offensive weapons. And in this L, you need perimeter offensive weapons to help exercise your interior offensive weapons. Which was why Pau was pushed to the perimeter to help space the floor for Bynum to man the paint.

    3. Not necessarily. Bynum matched Dwight’s rebounding rate in phases the last 2 seasons ( mostly after the ’11 ASG ) and Kobe’s RPG numbers didn’t take a noticeable hit.

    4. Wade does take better shots. Even with that, Kobe shoots a better % from almost everywhere on the floor with MORE minutes than Wade according to hoopdata.

    http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Dwyane%20Wade

    http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Kobe%20Bryant

    Their FG% were virutally identical last season ( Kobe was better the previous 3 ) but the area from where they got their shots off made the difference.

    Put it this way. Kobe’s shot selection and minutes + Lakers’ spacing + Team offense dictating Kobe to keep taking more shots from the 16-23ft area to help Bynum out = Kobe’s dismal FG% last season

    5. One or two games is fine. But Kobe got them the ball in their shooting pockets most times or beside their body with enough space and time to help them go through their rhythm to take the shot. There’s obviously no stat to help prove this but you’re gonna have to take my word for it. Or others who watched Lakers games can chime in on this issue.

  • Lorne

    Belly tickle sounds a little Sandusky-ish. Not defending nbk, just saying.

  • JR

    The irony of your comment is off the charts. For that reason, Kobe>Wade.

  • Drig

    You’re just focusing on the end of games which I elaborated on earlier when I mentioned Kobe’s Q4 game hurting the Lakers. The usage rate, the FGA, the minutes played all show our bigs got enough shots off. The problem was from where Pau got his off. And every good scorer does that. Melo, Durant and Westbrook included. Wade at times as well when he doesn’t get the call.

    You haven’t watched enough games then. The problem at times was that Kobe kept the bigs involved till the last 7-8 minutes of Q4.

  • Lorne

    It’s cool. That’s what Kanye was talking about in The Glory.

  • JR

    Facts: Kobe sells more Jerseys in China than Dwayne Wade. Kobe>Wade

  • Perry the PlatyPteranodon

    Facts: This stopped being funny a while ago. Logic>Bullshit

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    the usage rate shows Kobe taking up more possessions than any other player in the NBA. that’s what the usage rate shows. Kobe Bryant’s usage rate is the biggest problem of all of this. Your argument is backfiring. We all know Dwight didn’t see enough touches in Orlando. Just like we know Pau and Bynum had too low of usage in LA. Just because Kobe is a better player, does not mean he should be featured so heavily in his offense. For god’s sake, Jordan Hill had a higher usage rate than Pau Gasol. Pay closer attention to what you are saying.
    .
    But this isn’t on Kobe as much as it is on Mike Brown. This should be mentioned. Kobe used to many possessions because he could without worrying about any backlash (other than the team struggling). And as we have both acknowledged, Kobe has too much confidence. Someone has to reign him in. And that’s on Mike Brown.

  • Drig

    A fatigued Kobe shot just as well from range as any of the Lakers players did. That is the issue.

    And you obviously didn’t see the ” Kobe taking more shots from the perimeter to help out his team while Wade takes more shots at the rim to help his team. ” part. Sigh.

  • http://twitter.com/Jzakoni Verified Account

    6?!

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Kobe’s career accomplishments were mentioned. So yes, careers were compared.

  • JR

    The use logic yourself you oaf. Nothing I said was bullshit, it was just illogical. Plus, it’s the internet; the breeding ground of illogicalness.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    The point is that Kobe didn’t need to take shots from the perimeter to help his team. If he really wanted to help, Gasol and Bynum would have had the offense run through them and Kobe would have focused more on closing games.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Not emotions and opinions. Facts and opinions. You’re the dude who said that as far as you were concerned, there is no debate here. Yet you keep commenting and other people are as well. So obviously, there is a pretty big debate going on. People disagree with Kobe being ranked ahead of Wade and you think they need a “hug or something”? Right, because that makes a lot of sense.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    I use simple numbers that anyone can find. That’s the difference. Those weren’t the numbers Reggie was talking about. And you have yet to say one smart thing about anything at all. Maybe a fact or two would do you some good.

  • Drig

    I know that was the biggest problem of all of this. And I’m saying that correcting Kobe’s usage rate is gonna help correct a LOT of the problems and help improve both Kobe’s and the team’s efficiencythis coming year courtesy of the better cast.

    I seem to have mistaken something here. Does the usage rate automatically rate it per 100 possessions without factoring in the team O or the number of minutes a player plays in real life scenario?

    Dwight’s usage rate was low. Yes. But assuming we’re looking at TD/Shaq as usage rate benchmarks, I would say that 23 and 22 aren’t bad compared to 27-29 esp. when you consider that both have to play at the same time. I’m thinking that both their playing times overlapping might’ve caused the usage rate stat to mislead me……

    Okay, let me try to make my point without the usage rate stat which has confused me :

    Pau takes 14 FGA. Bynum takes 14 FGA. Kobe takes 23 FGA. Everyone criticizes Kobe for taking 23 FGA rightfully. Pau should’ve gotten more is what everyone says. But when you look at Pau’s shot chart, his attempts in different parts of the floor are virtually identical except the 16-23ft part which saw a 2 FGA increase. This was what I expected when I saw Pau was being idiotically moved to the perimeter rather than kept at the elbow and also made me realize that Bynum needed more space to operate in the middle. Pau shot 43% on mostly set open shots from the perimeter while Kobe shot 41% on mostly contested shots. None of the other Lakers sans Goudelock were even close but Goudelock couldn’t play alonside Kobe since he sucked as a PG and was a defensive liability. I believe that even if Kobe gave up 2-3 shots per game to Pau, it wouldn’t have made much difference because he was being asked to create from the perimeter and not penetrate into the paint to help accomodate Bynum’s game. It might’ve helped Kobe’s stats by making the usage rate reduce to around 29 but it wouldn’t have helped the team as much as people claim it would.

  • booo

    it does cutie pie – i think i’m going to take this one home with me – he’s a fighter – rarrrrarrrr.

  • Drig

    And that is where we disagree. Give me ONE good scenario with the shot attempts listed from different ranges which gives the Lakers a better chance of victory based on Hoopdata’s FG% from each range for each player. I’ve yet to see one where Kobe doesn’t take around 21 fga.

  • Drig

    Damn you guys!!! I wanted to save my argument for the Kobe thread and get more reads for it but you guys forced my hand lol.

  • Nixon

    D-Wade is NOT Top 5?? This is ridiculous! People stop fighting over the fact that Kobe is up there, First of all, CP3, and D12 is?? Hell Naww. I’m sorry top 5 has to do with your credentials and impact. Dwight is the best big man and defensive player no doubt, but How dare you give him the spot above Wade, same goes for CP3 best PG out there, but no way in hell do they deserve a higher spot. These 2 guys aren’t Top 5! D-Wade is in his prime, and just came fresh off a Championship. This boy deserves more respect!

  • Drig

    Um……..so you have no problem with Kobe being in the top 5 while you have a problem with Cp3 and dwight being there? This is new.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    When you have a clear advantage, you use it. There wasn’t a frontline in the league that could match up with the Lakers on any night. Why would Kobe not decide to become more of a playmaker instead of strictly a shooter/scorer on that team? Gasol was and is the most skilled big man in basketball, why was he forced to drift out to the 3 point line? Bynum is more offensively polished than Dwight Howard. That team should have given the Thunder more of a fight. Instead, it was no contest. Kobe no longer has an advantage on the perimeter every night. He doesn’t have it against Durant, Westbrook and Harden. He doesn’t have it against LeBron and Wade. Or Chris Paul. Kendrick Perkins and Serge Ibaka really had no chance of guarding Bynum and Gasol. I’m not concerned too much about the FG attempts. Kobe shooting 20 good/great shots is better than shooting 21 difficult shots with hands in his face. It’s the tough shots he takes but doesn’t need to. If teams had to eventually double down on Bynum and Gasol leaving Kobe open for shots, it would have been a much better offense than the one they ran.

  • Nixon

    Exactly, the only reason why Kobe deserves to be in the top 5 is because of his production, and impact as a clutch player with regard to his age aswell. CP3 and Dwight has no right to be in the Top 5. Lets look at Dwight, best center, Plays great D, but shoots 60% at the FT, and you cannot rely on his offensive prowess in the closing moments of a game. And then CP3, theres nothing wrong with him, has a clutch gene, best PG, facilitator right now, but that does not necessarily mean he is better than D-Wade. Wade his money in the clutch, and I’ll let you read about all the stats people have posted on the comments section. The Kobe argument will be a different (longer) story lol, I’m just trying to justify Wades spot over these other guys that I don’t think deserve to be higher

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    see my issue isn’t necessarily with how many shots Kobe takes, it’s the type of shots he takes. If he were to play into the offense, he would still get 20 shots a game, but he would probably shoot something closer to 46% and the offense as a whole would be more efficient (the happier players are, the better, and a passing Kobe makes everybody happy). Again, I place most of the blame on Mike Brown for the system he implemented, we know for a fact the Lakers can be succsseful with Bryant shooting a lot of shots, just not in the way Mike Brown has pushed them to do it. And given Mike Brown is still on the sidelines, and Kobe is only getting older, I don’t see any reason to believe he will be better than Wade, who has put up better seasons than him as an individual for the past 4 years.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    i have no negative emotions or feelings about Kobe. I have a realistic view of Kobe as a player that is logical, while a huge portion of the rest of the basketball world is ignorant. to be honest.

  • LakeShow

    lol, I like this comment.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    the above comment was supposed to be @disqus_7xaTsM6wMX:disqus

  • Conor

    What a sad world we live in.

  • LakeShow

    Great placement SLAM.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    right, where people judge others out of ignorance. but hey, maybe you’ll mature.

  • LakeShow

    Yes…

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Statistically, Wade is still top 5 bruh.

  • Conor

    Mike Brown is to blame for Gasol being on the perimeter, not Kobe. My God, man.

    Bryant dropped 36, 38, and 42 against OKC & he doesn’t “have it”? He scored 33 on Miami with a broken nose & he doesn’t “have it”?

    Gasol shot 40%-45% against OKC. Does he “have it”?

    Bynum is the only one who has a legitimate gripe against Kobe for lack of touches, but even he was abysmal against OKC.

    Opponents did double down on LA’s bigs. Bynum couldn’t handle them & Gasol was a ghost in the Playoffs.

    Watch the damn game.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    or stupid people dismiss numbers. nerd or stupid, you pick.

  • LakeShow

    lol…

  • Caboose

    While these are good points (and they are), you’re still fighting an uphill battle. What you need to do is twofold:
    1. Disprove damn near every statistic in the game.
    2. Offer some other form of evidence that proves Kobe is better.
    I think you’ve addressed both of these to an extent, but neither enough to fully justify putting Kobe ahead of Wade.
    Question for you: what will Kobe average next season? If you say 21-5-4 (like most Lakers fans suggest), what makes him different than Joe Johnson? Joe puts up similar stats and while Kobe is ABSOLUTELY better than Joe, it’s production that matters. Not capacity for production. In that sense, why would Kobe be rated higher?

  • Datkid

    who said anything about careers? lmaoooo

  • http://twitter.com/MaxxFreeze MaxxFoxx 〽

    well at least this rank is better than ESPN’s smh but i would still take Wade over Dwight and CP3…. as for Kobe, it all depends the only thing Kobe has over Dwyane is 3pt shooting other than that…Kobe is on the decline BUT he is the MJ of the era so its ok that he is ranked above Wade altho i would have put him at 5 and Kobe at 6

  • Conor

    I didn’t, but let’s be mature about this: you get paid to write in a comments section, man. Is that something that may be added to one’s resumé? “SLAMonline: Commentator (20??-Present)”…

    I didn’t judge you, I judged society. I still have much to learn, but you apparently need to understand something called “context”.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    you need to learn not to take everything literally. i don’t actually get paid to comment on a website. but i am working right now, so literally, i am being paid at this moment. not specifically to type each comment.
    -
    i was responding to boo’s ignorant ass sayin i needed a job, if you didn’t notice.

  • LakeShow

    I co-sign things that have been said by you.
    Thanks for doing the dirty work.
    I hate wasting my day finding stats to help the nerds ;) JP’n fellas.

  • Junior Taylor

    CP should be ranked ahead of Howard given that Howard missed most of last season and CP was 2nd in PER, 2nd in Win Shares, 2nd in Offensive Rating, 3rd in MVP voting, 3rd in Assists and led the League in Steals.

  • LakeShow

    This comment so well illustrates why numbers and “usage rates” mean jack diddly unless used in correct context.
    JORDAN HILL had a higher usage rating than Pau Gasol?
    WTF kind of stat is that then. A useless one.

  • Junior Taylor

    You do know that Wade was better than Kobe (across the board) last season, right?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    It illustrates how little the Lakers used Pau Gasol per minute dumbass.

  • Caboose

    I’m fine with Paul at #3. I expect him to go CRAZY this year. Dwight will do a lot, and his high ranking is gonna come from the Lakers-assist. He will do a lot, but I suspect his stats will dip. It’s a matter of how much defense you think Dwight will add to LA and how well Paul will improve over last season.

  • Caboose

    Lake discounts advanced stats because he doesn’t understand them. He probably thinks electricity is magic as well.

  • bball geek

    I can’t read past the equation. It says that the more championships you win, the less assists count for your legacy. :)

  • LakeShow

    Would you stop that.
    Wade and Kobe have had very debatable years as to who had the better season over the last 4. Highly debatable.
    Stop acting like shooting 2% better from the floor or grabbing .3 more steals or half a block more a game immediately puts a player above someone who had a similar or better TS% with more points, similar rebounds and assists.
    It’s debatable if you “PREFER” Wade over the last 4 seasons, say it as so, but there’s a reason why the majority of the populous does not agree with you.

  • Dagger

    These are mostly great rankings.

    But what I HATE about them is how they undervalue guys who place the good of their team before their stats. Garnett is underrated. Gasol, in my opinion, is underrated. Bosh is underrated. And now, Wade is (slightly) underrated. Kobe may be more skilled as a scorer, but Wade is much more efficient, and that efficiency leads to wins.

    Wade deserves to be ranked above Kobe. The only reasons for Kobe’s higher ranking are A) popularity, and B) the fact that he took so many shots that his PPG was higher. However, he was less efficient than Wade and ultimately cost his team a chance at greatness precisely because he took so many shots.

    In short: these rankings underrate great team players. It’s the same reason Scottie Pippen is underrated by so many people. Accepting a secondary scoring role for the good of the team does not diminish you as an athlete in team sports.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    .Per Game -
    - http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2009-2012-sum:per_game
    -http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html#2009-2012-sum:per_game
    .
    .Per Minute -
    - http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2009-2012-sum:per_minute
    - http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html#2009-2012-sum:per_minute
    .
    .Advanced
    - http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2009-2012-sum:advanced
    - http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html#2009-2012-sum:advanced

    .
    See, in every way shape and form you want to look at the stats, Wade has clearly been better over the last 4 years. Nobody said he was WAY better than Kobe. But he has definitely been better. This isn’t even debatable. If it is debatable, please provide actual reasons. and head 2 head match ups are not a reason, as i proved to you yesterday.

  • LakeShow

    I actually did not know that.
    Strange how Kobe grabbed more boards, got the same number of assists, shot better from the FT line, better from 3 point land, despite having to take desperation 3′s and shooting an absurd 5 per game, and KB played in more games, longer, showing his durability even at his old, injured, age, but yeah other than that.

  • Caboose

    Alright, I’m gonna try the impossible: summarize the ENTIRE debate of Kobe vs Wade.
    Start with the null assumptions:

    1. Wade has better stats
    2. Stats are a good way to judge players
    3. Offense is equal to defense
    4. Last year is a good predictor of this year
    5. Kobe’s new teammates will slightly increase Kobe’s performance
    6. Injuries are more common to Wade than Kobe
    7. Individual accomplishment is equal to team success

    These are the givens. If these are given, Wade is better. This is because of 1, 2, 3, 4, and 7. Therefore, the Wade argument must simply defend the null conditions.

    The Kobe argument, however, must make affirmative claims and prove them to be true. They do this by disagreeing with 2, 3, 5, and 7.

    The Kobe argument says that the 2 null is incorrect because “performance” and “visual evidence” is more valuable than raw data. This argument also hinges on the yet unproved claim that Kobe’s subjective performance is superior to Wade’s.

    The Kobe argument says that the 3 null is incorrect via implication. If these two were equal, the argument for Kobe would be impossible. However, it is on offense where the two players are more even (Wade is clearly superior defensively) and thus, offense is given more weight.

    The Kobe argument says that the 5 null is incorrect because Dwight and Nash will substantially increase Kobe’s performance. This is because of Nash handling the ball and providing shooting and Dwight providing a better scoring presence down low. Note that the Wade argument can also reject the null by saying that Dwight and Nash will actually make Kobe’s production worse.

    The Kobe argument says that the 7 null is incorrect, also by implication. It is documented that the Lakers’ success correlates strongly and negatively with the amount of shots Kobe takes. Therefore, Kobe is a detriment to the team when he shoots more, and placing him ahead of Wade is illogical. In this sense, the Kobe argument MUST assert that the individual success is much more important in evaluating players than their contribution to team victories. This is also stated by the neglecting of the “win shares” statistic.

    Overall, for the Kobe argument to hold weight, at the BARE MINIMUM, they must reject null 2 and null 7. I believe Drig has made a valiant effort at this. However, an argument must also be made that Kobe IS better. Rejecting the Nulls simply proves that Wade is not better than Kobe, but does NOT prove that Kobe is better than Wade.

    Phew, how’d I do?

  • justin05

    This goes to byanymeans as well..You should check out your buddy’s comments before backing him up. He said earlier that Kobe’s decision making skills when shooting are equivilant to a three year old’s decision making skills? Please, that is immature and negative. Slam knows more about basketball than you too, bamn, so there is no debate here. I saw my name come up and I agreed w/ boo about nbk needing a hug. The first Kobeites comment is another immature and obviously negative comment. I’m ready for the season to start already.

  • Dagger

    I honestly think Kobe will average around 25, 26 PPG on something like 44% shooting. And I think he’ll do so even though it would be much better for the Lakers if he averaged around 5 PPG less. I think he simply can’t accept a situation in which he wouldn’t average the most shots on his team. He is, after all, first in the offensive pecking order. Which is a huge reason – not as easily quantified – for ranking Wade over Kobe.

    As for the main argument here: ultimately, Kobe was hampered by LA’s lack of perimeter talent last year. Not everything was his fault. But there were plenty of times each game where Bynum would establish great post position only to have Kobe shoot a contested midrange jumper. Even more often Gasol was wide open and Kobe again looked for his own shot. Had he been less selfish and, really, less insecure about his place in the game the Lakers would have had more wins, period.

  • Caboose

    All great points.

  • LakeShow

    Your a freak dude.
    I’ll read it now lol.

  • Caboose

    Haha I take that as a compliment

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    negative about Kobe and negative about you people who can’t see what is illustrated in various ways are different. I’m very negative about people like you who argue something without any real, tangible argument. I feel that you are willfully blind to the truth, and thus, willfully stupid. Not stupid as a person, but when it comes to Kobe, you and many other Kobeites are stupid.

    .

    Kobe as the player? is one of my favorite players of all time. I have no issues with him, nothing negative to say about him other than the obvious criticisms he elicits with his style of play. Which are fine, EVERY player has issues with how they play. I just think he should be ranked where his play has deemed he should. And to me, that would be #6 on this list, which is honestly, higher than most of the people who do care about more than PPG & the name Kobe Bryant.

  • justin05

    I may not be as smart as Caboose or bamn but I’m not stupid. I’ve been called a nerd many times myself. I took it as a compliment. You know nothing about me nbk and I have much less respect for you because of how immature your comments are. I understand numbers and statistics fine, i’ve always been ahead of my class in math. Stats don’t show the whole picture. Period. You guys might want to watch and play more basketball and spend less time on the internet commenting about it. Slam’s decision is consistent w/ what Drig, Conor, Lakeshow, and myself believe. You are the ones that keep preaching Wade is better than Kobe when the basketball writers who get paid to do this know the truth. In my opinion, those who are consistent with Slam understand the game of basketball more. That’s my opinion, and I feel spo strongly about it that I could care less what you have to say about this topic. Just trying to defend myself.

  • Junior Taylor

    Good point about Dwight’s numbers dipping especially on he offensive end given all the weapons around him and a lack of consistent post game.

  • Caboose

    Yeah, I mean Dwight complained A LOT about how he didn’t get enough touches, but he really did. He just had to pass out pretty often. Which Kobe will demand he do.

  • Caboose

    So now you do support stats? Lol

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Make a logical argument and stop harping on how well we know or if we play basketball. Infact, if you are as young as the average commenter here is, I’ve probably been playing competitive basketball longer than you’ve been alive. But I don’t try and degrade your opinion for that, I just argue with logic and reason. And then I label the people who argue against it with their personal feelings. And I hate to break it to you, the guys that write for SLAM are not basketball experts, certainly not all of them at least. Not even kinda. But they are journalists, which is more important than expertise.

  • justin05

    LMAO 3 dislikes and I said nothing wrong. Unless you believe Kobe is number 4 and not next? lol. I think it’s safe to say which 3 ppl are against Slam and don’t understand the game as well.

  • LakeShow

    Only when they work in my favor you know that…
    Naw, Taylor said nonfactual statement about stats, to which I showed him otherwise.

  • LakeShow

    Bron
    KD
    CP3
    Dwight
    Love
    Westbrook
    Once again debatable.
    He may, but I wouldn’t put money on it. Young guns are coming for top 5 spots these days.

  • LakeShow

    lol, LOVE that last line.

  • danpowers

    thank you very much

  • danpowers

    lol

  • danpowers

    its just childish going with sympathies and sticking to the nonsense believe kobe would still be better than wade. no way. if there wont be a serious injury, wade will outperform kobe. that aint a bold prediction. he already outperformed him on the defensive end, he plays (and always played) less selfish than kobe, his defense is way better, his contribution to wins are higher than kobes and he is just coming out of a championship season looking to repeat. i am neither a wade or heat nor a lakers or kobe fan, kids often call me hater on the heat btw, but from an objective perspective it is just obvious that wade is better than kobe. bean passed on the crown of the best sg in the league on to wade. actually this happened already one or two years (latest) ago.

    the ranking aint about carreer achievements, its about this coming season, based on last years performance and overall outlook. thats no contest, wade is clearly better, period.

  • Conor

    There was no other way to interpret that given how you worded it, hahaha. I’m sorry, though.

  • LakeShow

    This is very well written.

    I agree with allot of what you had to say.

    My issue remains with the stats.

    Win shares. WTH is a win share? I mean really??

    Why did LeBron have over a 20 Win share in Cle 3 years ago, but now last season he’s at 14…. That’s BS, Bron did more to help his team win than ever before last season! Why would it drop like that when LeBron is even better than ever??
    I’ll tell you why: because these stats are dumb, out of the correct context.

    .

    Take this asinine sentence i’m about to say:

    “You know, Carlos Boozer is the 5th best defender in the L… You know how I know that? The stats tell me so…”

    - *Carlos Boozer 95.2 defensive rating, 2nd in the L*

    - *Carlos Boozer: 5th highest defensive win shares in the L.*

    Atta boy Booz! One of the best defenders in the L!

    Wow, so glad I looked at the stats…

    So i’m sure your getting my drift, but just to make sure…

    Last season offensive rating, Top 5:

    1.Tyson Chandler-NYK129.62.

    2. Chris Paul-LAC126.13.

    3. James Harden-OKC125.44.

    4. Ryan Anderson-ORL124.35.

    5. Joakim Noah-CHI

    That’s right! Chandler and Noah are two of the best offensive players in the L!

    Wow, I wouldn’t have known that from watching the game. Little did I know not only are they good on offense, they are GREAT!

    Getting where i’m coming from yet?

    It’s not that stats can’t be used to prove points, it’s just that there is a stat for nearly every occasion that you can pick and choose and say this stat is what makes this player better than this player, but stats can lie, and I happen to not trust them over my eyes.

    I know another satisfying response from me…

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Lakers/Kobe fans are worse than any other fanbase right now.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    That isn’t immature or negative, it’s true. And funny. There is a debate because there are over 100 comments here lol. There is a comment section so that people can debate. If SLAM didn’t want any debate, there would be no comment section. You are participating in the debate. How foolish are you to say that there is no debate when you’re participating in it?

  • Junior Taylor

    Maybe because of a shortened season.

  • Junior Taylor

    I love how you conveniently left out both player’s defensive numbers because Wade wins that in a landslide.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    there was, you read the comment i responded too, and realize i must have been talking about having a job and not commenting on an internet website. are you not of working age or something? you really think people are paid to comment on a website?

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    they aren’t likely to have better statistical seasons then Wade. They CAN, but it isn’t LIKELY.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    — Win Shares are directly related to how many wins each team has. If a team wins 60 games they will have a total of 60 win shares. And those are figured by using various stats to come up with a value each player had on wins. LeBron’s win shares in Cleveland were so high because he was, far and away, the only reason the team was even good, let alone the best team in the league. In miami, obviously, there are 2 other guys that really contribute to the teams success.
    — Offensive Rating should not be used to compare unlike players Ever. Ever. Ever. It’s really that simple.
    — Defensive Rating is as much a reflection on team defense as individual defense. which is why i only use defensive rating in a group with other advanced defensive stats. It’s not like you can compare the defensive rating of a guy on the Heat to a guy on the Bobcats.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    and for the 1 millionth time, it’s not one stat that favors Wade over Kobe, it’s EVERY stat. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

  • LakeShow

    Oh what, the defensive win shares? Carlos Boozer is better than Wade and Kobe defensively, we know that by the advance stats. Or you mean “gambling stats”, like steals and blocks?

  • LakeShow

    Fair enough.

  • zogs19994

    HEY YOU CAN TAKE YOUR STATS….AND SHOVE THEM UP YOUR ASS!

    -

    FACTS: KOBE, DWIGHT, STEVE, ANTAWN, MWP, J HILL, AN PAU GASOSTRICH

    KOBE IS A LENGEND, STEVE IS A LEGEND, DWIGHT WILL BECOME A
    DEFENSIVE LEGEND, AND PAU IS… HAS HAD A SOLID NBA CAREER

  • zogs19994

    YOU WANT SOME KNEEPADS?

  • underdog

    Kobe is the leader of HIS team. Maybe more than his own coach. DWade is a second option on the Heat. (a damn good one) Kobe’s performance is going to be much more important to the new looking Lakers, than Wade’s to the Heat. LeBron could carry the freakin’ Bobcats on his back to the Playoffs, all alone.

  • http://twitter.com/Jzakoni Verified Account

    im confused on this number… think it may be a lil high

  • Caboose

    So….does that mean that Dirk is better than Westbrook? I mean, the Mavs are DIRK’s team. He is the leader, maybe more than his own coach. Westbrook is the second option on the Thunder. Dirk’s performance is going to be much more important to the Mavs than Westbrook’s because Durant is more important. Durant could carry the freakin’ Magic on his back to the playoffs, all alone.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    oh logic.

  • surety

    If we judge by who has a greater positive impact on the game, Wade is better than Kobe.

  • Caboose

    I think Lake read that as “I’m some Kobe hater making up numbers to prove that Kobe sucks. I don’t care about ppg or threes made. I’m a nerd.”

  • the king

    that was so well said

  • http://twitter.com/AjpDos Allen Powell

    I laughed out loud at that three year old line.

  • Conor

    Those jobs, while found in the deepest circles of Hell, do exist. So, I really know that people are paid to comment on a website.

  • http://twitter.com/sooperfadeaway nbk

    Well I was ignorant of that. So that’s completely my bad.

  • initbruv

    Unlike…when? They’re always terrible.

  • Showtime

    No way in hell is KObe still a top 5 player.. He is the best player in the 2000 era but he not better than d wade .. Dwade has been better since 08!!!But I see what slam did here .too bad this just have the sting it use to & have like 600 comm on the board

  • Drig

    Because his efficiency and assist totals are gonna skyrocket to around 46-47% and 6apg. I’m assuming a 21-6-5 from him.

    You’re right about me fighting an uphill battle. Until I get a metric that can account for the kind of offense teams run and the quality of shot they help get off for each player, I won’t find too many takers.

    Also, I didn’t say Kobe should be ahead of Wade. I said there are plausible explanations to why Slam would’ve gone with Kobe to have the better season. Personally, I think both of them are interchangeable based on what a team needs.

    Joe’s stats are gonna come down this season to around 18-4-4.5 while playing alonside DWill. I haven’t been able to watch Brooklyn’s preseason games so far but I’m pretty sure they are gonna hover around those marks this season.

  • Drig

    Why was Gasol forced to drift out to the 3pt line?? Welcome to my world which has MikeB as the antagonist.

    And LAL vs OKC was no fight??? LOL. Get outta here. Again, give me ONE plausible scenario with the shooting slumps of all perimeter players sans Kobe where Kobe gets 18 fga, Bynum and Gasol get featured more, LAL has more spacing and is more effective.

  • ByAnyMeansNecessary

    Did you watch that series? The Lakers got bulldozed. They were lucky to win one game. What is a shooting slump to you? If a player shooting 44% or less from the floor is a shooting slump, then Kobe was in the same boat as his teammates were. It’s not like he was outshining his teammates with efficient play. If a healthy D-Wade was on that team instead of Kobe, it would have at least been a competitive series because he would have gotten his teammates the ball all season and had their confidence level up by the time the playoffs arrived. Gasol and Bynum would have both been 20-10 guys.

  • Drig

    So…..the Lakers lead in 3 outta the 5 games and were trailing by two heading into Q4 in the series…….The only reason we lost was LAL’s predictable O in Q4 courtesy of Kobe and MikeB not drawing up plays to get Kobe the ball with enough space to shoot. If a healthy D-Wade was on that team, the spacing would be screwed. Remember how everyone was harping on Wade’s outside J calling it broken?? That would’ve sunk LAL faster than Kobe’s shotjacking. Both Bynum and Gasol might’ve had better stats but that wouldn’t necessarily mean that the team would be better off no??? Kobe shot a similar % as DWade playing 6 extra minutes per game from 16ft and out while taking about 5 more shots from the said range. DWade’s efficiency would’ve crashed with teh sort of spacing LAL had.

  • Drig

    Good job. Another thing to remember is that sans Westbrook, no player was truly over efficient in the series.

  • http://www.facebook.com/officialjohng John Gustanar

    WOOOOW! I sweart To God Y’all Top 5 Players better have more then 2 Rings then D.Wade!

  • The Seed

    Wade is where he belongs, he has lost alot of juice and his killer mentality to be the best player in the NBA. I wish, Lebron never went to South Beach, then Wade would be a different player. Now he is being spun by the media to be a leader, who doesn’t care about his points or legacy, he just wants Lebron to be a great player and he is willing to take a backseat. This is crap and I wish Wade would MAN UP!!!

  • Diipp

    The last part of your perfectly put comment explained yourself perfectly. I’m not surprised nobody had the nerve to dislike it.

  • Diipp

    Kobe being the number one option explains why he is top three in Slam rankings after 17 seasons and most of everyone on here still always have a “but” or an “or” with 24. When he has 6/7 rings it will be a bad day for a lot of you…

  • Dagger

    Listen, the biggest thing that may keep him from getting that 6th or 7th ring is his obsession with being the number 1 option.

  • Dagger

    If you’re talking about PPG, then yes. But if you’re talking about all the more advanced ways we have to measure basketball performance, Wade will almost certainly be well ahead of Kobe.

  • Bored

    you know you are wrong when you are 0 ups and 14 downs

  • Bored

    thanks

  • RetroActive

    We’ll see as the season goes

  • Drig

    Um……….what????

  • cncaliguy

    Wade is definitely better than Kobe but you didn’t mention Wade’s defense.

    Kobe’s defense has fallen off and he gives up too many easy points by sagging to much down the lane, not challenging shots hard, and letting backdoor cuts, and late on rotations.

  • taemosabog

    why does Kobe always get in to the all defensive 1st team? he ain’t blockin’ shots like d-wade does and he always rely on his offense and his 2 big guys in the middle to cover his mistakes on defense…

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