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Thursday, October 21st, 2010 at 8:00 am  |  453 responses

Top 50: Kevin Durant, no. 3

The definitive ranking of the NBA’s best players.

by Vincent Thomas / @vincecathomas

There was a real case to be made that, right up until the preseason started, Kevin Durant was the best player in the game.

It would have been an argument based on technicality, but when, save the very rare cases, have we ever been to make such an argument about a 21-year-old? Because, think about it, Kevin Durantin mid-September, Kobe was dealing with injury issues and the last time LeBron played ball he looked like a different player, some disinterested version of the player we’d come to know.

Meanwhile, KD had just finished an MVP-worthy regular-season campaign and lead a group of American cubs to the FIBA World Championship gold medal. At the time, if you would have said, “I think KD is the best player in the game,” I wouldn’t have smacked the taste out of your mouth, I probably would have shrugged my shoulders and responded, “There’s definitely a case to be made.”

Now? Well, depending on how Kobe recovers from his knee injury, KD might be the No. 2 player in the game, although, it’s still not wise to say any youngster, no matter how precocious, deserves to be ranked ahead of the post-Jordan era’s greatest player.

One thing we know for sure: KD is not better than LeBron. All it took was a few pre-season games to remind us what of a force of nature LeBron is and how absurd it was for critics, in a rush to demote LeBron, were prematurely anointing KD.

Kevin Durant is one of the five biggest stories the season. He’s fresh off a legacy-building summer and regular season that put him in exclusive discussions. About midway through last season, I tweeted that Kevin Durant was playing the best basketball a 21-year-old guy had ever played. I wasn’t saying he played better basketball than 21-year-old LeBron or Magic or whomever, but it was just as good.

That means when his career is over, we could be discussing him along with Magic and Kobe or Bird. That’s not a farfetched scenario. That career arch started last season, but it really gets going now.

What he does this season? Does he snatch his first MVP award? Will he have some big moments in big regular-season games, like, say, a 15-point fourth at Staples against the Lakers to win the game? Will he rebound better, start locking down on D? Will he and OKC advance in the Playoffs, upset veteran squads? Will he keep improving or plateau?

Because, as good as he is, he can obviously get better. Actually, he needs to get better. If he does, he could be jumping a few spots on the Top 50, next season.

SLAMonline TOP 50 PLAYERS OVERALL RANK POSITION RANK
Player Team Position 2010 2009 2010 2009
Ray Allen Celtics SG 50 36 10 9
Gilbert Arenas Wizards SG 49 34 9 8
Lamar Odom Lakers PF 48 33 14 10
John Wall Wizards PG 47 NR 13 NR
OJ Mayo Grizzlies SG 46 46 8 12
Al Horford Hawks C 45 NR 6 NR
Jason Kidd Mavs PG 44 45 12 10
Joakim Noah Bulls C 43 NR 5 NR
LaMarcus Aldridge Blazers PF 42 39 13 12
David West Hornets PF 41 31 12 8
Monta Ellis Warriors SG 40 NR 7 NR
Andrew Bogut Bucks C 39 NR 4 NR
Yao Ming Rockets C 38 NR 3 NR
Brandon Jennings Bucks PG 37 NR 11 NR
Zach Randolph Grizzlies PF 36 NR 11 NR
Stephen Curry Warriors PG 35 NR 10 NR
David Lee Warriors PF 34 NR 10 NR
Brook Lopez Nets C 33 NR 2 NR
Gerald Wallace Bobcats SF 32 NR 7 NR
Manu Ginobili Spurs SG 31 29 6 7
Tony Parker Spurs PG 30 15 9 3
Kevin Garnett Celtics PF 29 13 9 3
Rudy Gay Grizzlies SF 28 44 6 9
Josh Smith Hawks PF 27 40 8 13
Andre Iguodala 76ers SG 26 26 5 6
Al Jefferson Jazz PF 25 23 7 7
Russell Westbrook Thunder PG 24 NR 8 NR
Chauncey Billups Nuggets PG 23 19 7 5
Tyreke Evans Kings PG 22 NR 6 NR
Danny Granger Pacers SF 21 21 5 5
Carlos Boozer Bulls PF 20 32 6 9
Paul Pierce Celtics SF 19 17 4 4
Joe Johnson Hawks SG 18 20 4 4
Rajon Rondo Celtics PG 17 27 5 8
Amar’e Stoudemire Knicks PF 16 16 5 6
Steve Nash Suns PG 15 22 4 6
Tim Duncan Spurs PF 14 6 4 1
Chris Bosh Heat PF 13 13 3 4
Derrick Rose Bulls PG 12 18 3 4
Brandon Roy Blazers SG 11 10 3 3
Pau Gasol Lakers PF 10 14 2 5
Dirk Nowiztki Mavs PF 9 9 1 2
Deron Williams Jazz PG 8 11 2 2
Chris Paul Hornets PG 7 4 1 1
Carmelo Anthony Nuggets SF 6 7 3 2
Dwight Howard Magic C 5 5 1 1
Dwyane Wade Heat SG 4 3 2 2
Kevin Durant Thunder SF 3 8 2 3

Notes
• Rankings are based solely on projected ’10-11 performance.
• Contributors to this list include: Jeremy Bauman, Maurice Bobb, Erildas Budraitis, Sean Ceglinsky, Ben Collins, Bryan Crawford, Sandy Dover, Adam Figman, Manny Maduakolam, Eddie Maisonet, Ryne Nelson, Doobie Okon, Ben Osborne, Charles Peach, Branden Peters, Quinn Peterson, David Schnur, Todd Spehr, Kyle Stack, Adam Sweeney, Dennis Tarwood, Tracy Weissenberg, Lang Whitaker, Eric Woodyard, and Nima Zarrabi.
• Want more of the SLAMonline Top 50? Check out the archive.

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  • Yous

    What a shitty f*cking write-up.

  • Yous

    What a sh*tty f*ucking write-up.

  • Yous

    Horrible write-up.

  • michael

    wow, i thought he might have been in FIRST place

  • michael

    also by reading this and u saying there is a case to be made he is better than kobe, but not lebron, ergo, lebron is number 1?

  • Michael Whyte

    ‘One thing we know for sure: KD is not better than LeBron’. AMEN

  • PDC

    KD gonna be #1 @stats this season. Book it.

  • http://www.nba.com Jessdogg

    One thing we know for sure: Slam just gave away the placement of the final 2 rankings… Thank jesus christ Lebron is where he should be.

  • http://www.nba.com Jessdogg

    and thank jesus christ eboy that you were wrong.. I didn’t have to sh!t on my keyboard.

  • socrates

    wow, i know he is really good, but i don’t think he deserves top 3, wade is better, definitely
    think abt his wingmans, if all of them gone and he cannot get as many champineships as Bird or Magic or Kobe, will he still be that great in history as this author say?
    crap

  • Michael Whyte

    lol jessdogg

  • Mia

    I am so relieved that KD is not #1. He still is not better than D. Wade.

  • zeeky

    I think KD is better than LBJ.
    Main reason:
    Not and egotistical, money-hungy, boastful, dbag.
    Yea LeBron is good but his character isn’t good.
    I would rather meet KD than Lebron. Lebron is ridiculously cocky. KD is modest and deserves number 2 behind Kobe.

  • AT33

    Not yet man, he’s no way No.3 ahead of DWade, Melo, Howard who have been proven!

    6. Durant (might move a spot this year)
    5. Howard (solid defensive machine)
    4. Melo (he’s money, might even be on the same level as the next two)
    3. Kobe (he’s good but his game is too selfish)
    2. DWade (he is a mini Jordan)
    .
    .
    .
    .
    1. LeBron (miles above everybody)

  • http://www.slamonline.com melvin ely

    Imma sit back and watch the comments explode, not by KD’s placement here, but who the 1 and 2 spot belongs to. For the record, this is a good spot for the guy I think, but best believe he’s coming for the top spot next year. Now let the 2,145th Kobe v. Lebron debate begin!

  • burnt_chicken

    if he jumped a few spots, he’d be at 0.

  • Michael Whyte

    ^@AT33 agree that Lebron is miles above everybody. But melo on the same level as kobe and wade. No.

  • VisionofGreatness

    @AT33
    LeBron isn’t miles from everyone and your argument against Kobe isn’t an argument at all, but an opinion.

  • VisionofGreatness

    @ AT33
    LeBron isn’t miles ahead of everyone and your argument against Kobe isn’t an argument at all. It’s just an opinion.

  • VisionofGreatness

    @ AT33
    LeBron isn’t miles ahead of everyone and your argument against Kobe isn’t an argument at all. It’s just an opinion. You don’t sound too intelligent on basketball matters, just a huge fan of LeBron which clouds your thinking regarding other players.

  • IHaveADream

    @ AT33
    LeBron isn’t miles ahead of everyone and your argument against Kobe isn’t an argument at all lol. It’s just an opinion. You don’t sound too intelligent on basketball matters, just a huge fan of LeBron which clouds your thinking regarding other players.

  • http://www.simonlawy.vemma.com Simon Lawy

    @AT33, are you trying to grab everybody’s attention by starting the Kobe VS Lebron ??

  • Groves

    Wade > Durant

  • Jer Dawg

    Put Kobe at #2. Have SLAM ask him what it’s like to be ranked #2. Kobe will lie to you and tell you it doesn’t matter and he’ll put that up on his to do list to slay everyone ahead of him. And he’ll bury everyone else behind him, too. Being a Los Angeles fan, I want the rest of the country to doubt him and fuel his fire. LA wants another parade next summer! Who’s gonna be bringing (beating) the Heat? los Angeles, of course.

  • Groves

    Wade > Durant

  • Groves

    Wade > Durant

  • Jeff

    “Now? Well, depending on how Kobe recovers from his knee injury, KD might be the No. 2 player in the game, although, it’s still not wise to say any youngster, no matter how precocious, deserves to be ranked ahead of the post-Jordan era’s greatest player.”

    Now we know it’s gonna Kobe at 2 and LeBron at 1.

  • AT33

    @simon
    no way, Kove vs Lebron is a no brainer! Take Shaq and Gasol out of LA and Kobe would have zero rings! LeBron went to the finals with Cleavland! Cleavland! I repeat: Cleavland!

  • Anthony

    Kobe and Lebron haters are all waiting for the #2 spot now. I know i am.

  • IHaveADream

    @ AT33
    Take Wade and Bosh out of Miami and LeBron wins nothing! I repeat: Nothing! lol. You’ve already shown yourself to just be a Kobe hater.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Well now, this is interesting. Not for KD’s placement…..but how the top 2 shakes out. If anyone truly believes that stat wise Kobe is going to out perform KD in raw stats this season they’re fuc*ing retarded. Obviously, we all know who’s team is going to have the better record and who is going to come up with bigger playoff moments. On Lebron’s side, I can see him having better all-around statistical numbers than KD, except in scoring, since he doesn’t have to do it all anymore, but I’m not sure where Kobe’s numbers are going to be on par with Bron’s OVERALL. I said yesterday I though Bron would average somewhere in the range of 25/7/8. I’d think Kobe is going to be in the 26/5/5 range. If that is a fair projection, and both their teams are going to be favored to at least get out of their conference, Lebron would have to be #1. It’s actually simple, but really confusing. This whole Top 50 list has lost a lot of it’s credibility from season to season. The placement of certain guys kind of derails the entire effort put in. That su*ks.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    I would think KD’s numbers shake out like 30/6/4 by the end of the season.

  • http://www.slamonline.com jumpman3224

    My Top 5 Prediction is still right:
    5 – Howard !
    4 – Wade !
    3 – Durant !
    2 – James
    1 – Bryant

  • http://www.simonlawy.vemma.com Simon Lawy

    @AT33, honestly i’m a die hard Kobe’s fan, but i’m tired of the fight about kobe vs Lechoke. Well, i’m a Kobe’s fan, of course i’ll( & james da balla of course) try 100% to defense Kobe just like d’ other lechoke’s fan. But’ it seems like a endless debate, and it’s meaningless. Peace!!!

  • IHaveADream

    This is just an opinion…this top 50. It’s not like NBA players themselves made it. Therefore, it doesn’t hold too much weight. And we should all know that there’s no definitive ranking on the best players. It’s all based on opinion. People let their feelings influence their opinions especially with Kobe and LeBron so there’s no way to really decide who’s better. But it is fun to read some people’s comments. People who fight so hard for or against a player like their life depends on it.

  • michael

    eboy, i agree…not sure if the point u were making is this, but if we all agree these are the top 3 players (not that we do) but then in terms of who will have the biggest year, for a number of reasons, not least the situation they are in, then KD wins this hands down and should be number 1. Bit as to your general point, yes this list does indeed blow and slam may as well not bother next year (has any of the old school guys done a write up yet? i miss russ and ryan)

  • http://thankgodimfamous.com Sickamore

    Melo > Dirk > Durant

    WTF has this guy proven?!?!? He hasn’t even won a playoff series!

  • Anthony

    KD was at 30/7.6/2.8 last season and i think he’s gonna stay at this stats range. Eboy i dont see a reason why his RPG will drop by 1.6 but on the other hand his assist will probably go up a bit, 1.0 max. The main improvement im waiting for him is not on his personnal stats but more on how much he can make his teammates better. If he can lead the Thunders to 55wins, be in the top3 in the West and reach 2nd round or more, his #3 spot on this ranking will be well-deserved.

  • Michael Whyte

    @Simon. ‘Lechoke’ has a winning record of late against the mamba. Fear him if they meet in finals.

    @EBOY. I see Lebron getting more than 7 or 8 assists. He did that in his sleep with chumps around him. Honestly, i have Lebron for MVP again. But we’ll see.

    Wade > Durant

  • http://hoopistani.blogspot.com hoopistani

    was there really any doubt that SLAM was going to avoid controversy and go LeBron-Kobe as 1-2 again? Durant and Wade deserve more love

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the Balla

    lol Kobe haters are the best! Good job AT33!
    I agree Eboy, but maybe they are taking into consideration a little bit of last year, and maybe SLAM thinks the Lakers are going for the ship again with Kobe leading. A lot of guys on this site think that stats is what makes you the best player and nothing else. Idiots like AT33 say Kobe is too selfish yet still averages 5 assists. I will agree 100 percent if Lebron has the number one spot. But if Kobe has the number one spot, I think it will be a good spot too, everyone every year for the past 4 years has basically said Kobe is done. And every year he comes out and is a beast. Last year he came out and started the season like a monster, unfortunately he got injured. It will be interesting … Lebron is number 1 though…. oh, and as long and Kobe stops faking all of these damn injuries.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Well…..out of the 20 odd names on the list of contributors to the list, I’m only real confident in about 4 of their basketball opinions. The others, while some of their names are familiar from some of their blog work, it hardly qualifies them as experts in this type of poll. I think most of the commenters picks would be just as justified. Just my opinion.

  • CannibalREX

    Sorry boys but

    Wade > Melo > Durant

    Howard is a little hardeer too judge because his focus is defense only, wade has both putstanding offensive and defensive abilities, while durant and Melo are primary offenders ….. but melo is more bluky and experienced , and has also shown an incredibile cold blood which is necesssary in order to be the 1st option on a team

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the Balla

    Who is Durant Howard?
    Okay, Eboy, gotta ask. There is another list going on right now! It’s a Top 10 hottest MC’s. And B.O.B is number 9, which is fine, but WAKA FLOCKA FLAME IS 8, WTF!!! If anyone follows it, this is what is wrong with rap/hip hop!! Waka is a tool. What do you think of this Eboy? : D

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    I strictly attach myself to Mc’s that made their names before the year 2000, James. I’m an old pie*e of sh*t like that!

  • Anthony

    Durant Howard is Dwight with 3 post-moves instead of 2.

  • ab40

    dudes that post their own top five at every single member of the top 5 suck.

  • michael

    yeah eboy i agree…i have been reading here and posting intermittenly since back in the day of the old site, and the quality in general has gone down, i guess that is due to trying to do too many things at once. Whatever…i just cant wait for the season to start. also, i can see lbj getting a trip doub average this year, in fact he could do it easily.

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the Balla

    Eboy I agree, I am like that too… but still, damn! Todays rap is terrible!

  • BBaller

    The names these days,WAKA FLOCKA FLAME, Big Buuny? They sounds like joke mc names outta CB4,damn what were their names, been a long while since i saw that on VCR.

  • BBaller

    What was the song “striaght outta Locash or something?

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the Balla

    lol CB4, I own that, fu<king hilarious! Anyways, ya’ll have fun debating! Have a good day boys.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Stay steady, James.

  • BBaller

    Sorry for the errors, its 1am and i’ve been playing NBA2K11 for 5 hours. My eyes are shot.

  • http://www.b-ballistics.com Darksaber

    *still shaking head in awe at Wade being ranked behind KD*.
    thank god i didn’t waste a lot of time on this year’s Top 50.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    It’s the new math, Dark. One good season negates a career of accomplishments.

  • http://www.dreallday.com Dre Baldwin

    Don’t forget about 21-year-old Tracy McGrady.

  • BBaller

    Speaking just quickly about the game, after buying NBA Live since 95, this was my first 2K experience. And I want my $1500 back EA! This is the best basketball simulation by far, what have i been missing!.The game play is unbelievable and you have so much more control over everything.If you don’t have it yet, put the computer down and please go and buy it. You will not be disappointed.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    I think LeBron’s statline will be 24/8(rounded-off)/10(rounded-off)..
    Anyways you can’t go wrong putting Wade and KD in any order of the 3 & 4 spot. Though I understand this placing, KD just slightly edged Wade because imo, KD would be ask to do more in a lot of nights because of the quality of teammates he have. Not saying that Westbrook, Green and the rest sucks but c’mon can you actually compare that to what Wade(or LeBron since this is his team now) have?

  • hoodsnake

    My post Jordan era greatest player is a gentleman called Tim Duncan. LeBron is #1 on this list

  • Tom P

    Post jordan era’s greatest player is kobe?? wow that is quite debatable, if i do remember correctly shaq has 3 finals mvp’s to kobe’s 2 and last year he was hardly deserving as pau gasol did make a pretty good case for himself to win that award and dont forget the two seasons kg was healthy wit the celtics he went to the finals and won..slam you are truly disappointing me!

  • http://www.redraidersports.com Nicolas Fleming

    Tom, you sir are an idiot.

  • http://www.slamonline.com J

    @ BBaller : I’m so happy I’ve switched since 2k9.. And I think everyone already had the game now.. Lets all enjoy playin’

  • http://www.redraidersports.com Nicolas Fleming

    The award is NBA Finals MVP, not NBA Finals Game 7 MVP…

  • EazyE

    Lebron is a two-time reining MVP, 1 on 1 he would beat Kobe hands down. But if im not mistaken Kobe has 5 more ‘Chips than Bron ultimatley making it
    1.Kobe
    2.Lebron
    i dont care much for the LosAnglesMoneyBoys but i don’t drink hateraid either

  • Mia

    You cannot compare Kobe and Duncan. They were both great in different ways.

  • BBaller

    @hoodsnake..Tim Duncan is on my screensaver, i hate,hate to say it, but Kobe has taken the edge over TD and Shaq for that matter. TD still has time to win more, though i don’t see TD jumping to another contender, he’ll retire a SPUR and in a gracious manner. Never his aim to match Jordan.

  • Tom P

    Kobe lovers are so naive dont you guys realize the handchecking doesnt exist in the nba anymore since ratings went down stars like your boy kobe couldnt shine wit those rules and now he is the greatest player post jordan, i cant wait for lebron and wade to win five in a row and kobe will be a distant memory

  • Tom P

    not to mention the fact that your boy kobe won championships 5 times cause he has had hands down the best team in the nba and 3 of those he wasnt even considered the leader…while lebron was over here winning 60+ in the regular season with no top 50 ball players according to slam mag, now Lebron this man has a unit just wait and cry about it fellas

  • BBaller

    mia is right,we can’t really compare, though TD is the only ‘best at his position’ since the post Jordan era.I’m still going to argue for him, i’m blind.

  • http://www.simonlawy.vemma.com Simon Lawy

    @Tom, Please don’t show us your idiocy

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Just a few seasons ago, Kobe was getting eaten alive here (and most everywhere else) when he was playing with a rag tag roster and quitting on his team in the playoffs. Now, fast forward to the present, with a rebuilt roster full of All-Star caliber players and two titles, Kobe is now viewed as the greatest player since the Jordan era. This is highly debatable. Lebron is going to have a similar benefit now in Miami. 5 seasons from now if the heat have 3 or 4 title wins and are setting themselves up for a few more, it’s going to be hard to not make the same argument for him either. Kobe was gifted Pau. Kobe forced his team to make drastic moves. They did. The Lakers became real good. They have 4 All-Star caliber players (Kobe, Pau, Ron, LO). Kobe is also being helped along to his current standing by a steroid fueled roster. Lebron is going that route, just changing cities. It’s not his fault Cleveland, Ferry and Gilbert weren’t able to get 3 perennial All-stars with him in their primes (like Kobe has the luxury of), not guys that have long lost that luster (Shaq, Jamison?/who else?). Use all of your brains when you write things…..it becomes easy to digest when it makes sense.

  • BBaller

    @Tom P, just trying to be real about today, in 5 years time its a whole new discussion,Lebron for me still has to win a ring, which he probably will win many, until that time, his resume on paper is 2 pages less than the others, a very f’ing impressive front cover though!

  • jahmai

    Great spot for KD at no.3, next year he’ll go even higher!

  • Mia

    Eboy is right, Kobe was gifted players. It also helps to have the greatest coach/motivator ever.
    Also Kobe plays for the Lakers. The best run organization in the NBA. It is not hard to get players to want to play there. Cleveland is a different story.

  • greatnesspersonified

    if LeB*tch is indeed number 1, it’ll be highly laughable. SLAM placed Kobe at number 2 last year and man went out and repeated. Now LBJ is in a situation where his stats will be lower, his leadership is gone, he is 1/3 of a franchise, and his soul owner Wade is ranked number 4 on this list? Comon SLAM, give Kobe the big ups he deserves. Possibly one last number 1 ranking with his aging body and KD sniffingaway? Knowing Kobe, don’t bank on that..

  • KB8toSG8

    Skills:
    1.Kobe. PERIOD.
    2.Wade.
    3.LeBron
    4.Paul
    5.Melo/D-Will

    Effectiveness:
    1. LeBron/Kobe
    2. See above
    3. Wade

    4. Melo
    5. D12
    6. CP3
    7. D Will
    8. Durant.

    That’s the order…..and slam pretty much ****** it up with Durant.

    Best player till preseason?! More like the best player DURING the preseason lol.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    The rankings say “projected performance” not projected stats.
    Just because Durant puts up better numbers, which isn’t a given, does that mean that by his performance he was clearly the better player than Wade?
    Think about it

  • Tom P

    whatever you need a ring to validate yourself?? this is stupid lebron never had anybody, im sorry carolos boozer quit on him for money and antwan jamison’s most effective move is a floater, kobe got pau from Jerry West (a former Laker player) whined and complained forever and in my opinion plays in a weaker conference, (only three teams went to the finals post jordan era lakers, spurs, and mavs once)

  • BBaller

    Unfortunately even if Kobe had 11 ALLstars, the reality is at Oct21 2010, Kobe is, i consider more successful/greater than any current player. Would Lebron say his no rings are more successful than Kobe’s 5 ?Is that the math you were talking about Eboy?

  • http://www.slamonline.com jumpman3224

    I want to see Kobe at #1, but a good case can be made for either. Case for Kobe: Best indicator of future performance is past performance. He is coming off of two straight seasons as a Top 3 regular season MVP finisher. And, two straight seasons of taking home the finals MVP. IMO that combo makes him the best player in the L from opening day to the end of the second season for two straight years. The only indication that he would be less than his best this season is the aggregate of injuies. But, he has proven he can succeed while playing through injuries before. Case for LeBron: Two Straight MVP seasons with outstanding stat lines. His numbers will likely be impacted by his new Team, but it is hard to exactly how. I will say this though, barring injuries I truly believe LBJ either needs a triple double average or 70 wins to be the League MVP this season.

  • http://yahoo.com eboyhater

    @ AT33 ya take pimpin and rodman and lets see how may rings jordan would have.Take shaq from wade lets see how many rings he’ll have. I could go on and on but i dont want to see my point so dont give me any of that if it wasnt for shaq and gasol how many rings kobe would have had.

    Lakers three peat season almost starts whoa

  • AT33

    To all the dumb folks:
    LeBron with no help = Finals!
    Kobe with no help = no playoffs, first round exit!
    .
    Now if you’re that stupid to understand Basketball and what LeBron does on the court than god help you.

  • andy2.0

    Co-sign Darksaber. SLAM loves hype though. Remember ‘Grant Hill: Just Like Mike, Only Better’? (no offence to Mr Hill)…

  • http://Slamonline.com ENDS

    So E LO Is an Allstar? PLEASE SLAM NO MORE TOP LIST NEXT YEAR!!! WERE BORED IN THE SUMMER BUT PLEASE AT LEAST ReSPECT OUR INTELLEGENCE

  • Michael Whyte

    @greatnesspersonified. Hater. Look at it logically and appreciate Lebron. He is better than Kobe right now. Kobe just happened (happened, not happens) to have a better team/coach/organisation. With the importance people place on winning in the NBA, it makes sense that Kobe is 1. I love watching him, but my favourite, and the best player in the L is Lebron.

  • Mia

    Take Phil Jackson away from Jordan and Kobe and see how many rings they have. As soon as Phil started coaching each team the immediately began winning championships.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    BBaller, I’m not downtalking Kobe’s recent accomplishments. Quite the opposite, actually. If dude is getting this head over heels love by a segment of the basketball watching population, the same love has to be given to other players if they are put in a similar circumstance and get results. Like it’s been said, Lebron has to win something before that argument could be made.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Ends, I said All-star caliber.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    This is a good spot for Durant, I just feel Durant gets to much credit for the thunder. If Durant is 3, shouldn’t westbrook been higher. I would say westbrook was the MVP of the 1st round series in the playoffs, which matter more than getting great stats in the regular season. Kobe should be no. 2 on this list and I AM HIS BIGGEST FAN, but Lebron performance should go up with better players around him, stats don’t matter, wins and leading the team to me matter more. Also for those folks hating on Kobe saying he had Pau and Shaq, please tell me who MJ had, Bird had and Magic had. I would say that Hakeem and Isiah won their two titles with less help. Also people forget some of those Laker teams depended on Kobe and Shaq too much, but they always had a role player step up, which matters more than having big name stars sometimes. TEAMS win TITLES not one man shows. BOOK IT!!

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    This is a good spot for Durant, I just feel Durant gets to much credit for the thunder. If Durant is 3, shouldn’t westbrook been higher. I would say westbrook was the MVP of the 1st round series in the playoffs, which matter more than getting great stats in the regular season. Kobe should be no. 2 on this list and I AM HIS BIGGEST FAN, but Lebron performance should go up with better players around him, stats don’t matter, wins and leading the team to me matter more. Also for those folks hating on Kobe saying he had Pau and Shaq, please tell me who MJ had, Bird had and Magic had. I would say that Hakeem and Isiah won their two titles with less help. Also people forget some of those Laker teams depended on Kobe and Shaq too much, but they always had a role player step up, which matters more than having big name stars sometimes. TEAMS win TITLES not one man shows. BOOK IT!!

  • BBaller

    If i have come across a Kobe ballsucker or whatever i’m truly sorry,i personally begrudge him for my own reasons like spraining my ankle wearing his stupid shoes, the Addidas one’s KB8s with those egg shape soles,and as a spurs diehard believe me the Lakers and Kobe can finish 9th for all i care.

  • http://www.slamonline.com jumpman3224

    @AT33: It’s unfair to both players to pull one fact out to site who is better. Also its not a vaccum, additional factors such as strenght of conference and overall additional talent (let’s not forget that in 2007 LBJ had an All-Star Center, talented long range shooters and a reigning All NBA defensive player for teammates). People always act like LBJ had no help in retrospect. But, no one felt that way when people were penciling in Cleveland to the finals for the last two seasons. Here is another Finals related tidbit for you. If we are looking at finals appearences soley, how about this. Percentage for years appearing in the Finals vs Entire Career. Kobe: 50. LBJ: 14. Kobe has made the finals 1 out of every 2 seasons in the L!

  • slick ric

    so, off of knee surgery on top of the fact that he 32 with reduced minutes kobe is going to have a better season than D-Wade and Durant.

  • Michael Whyte

    @THE SEED. I completely agree with EVERYTHING you just wrote. Thank you for knowing the game.

  • http://itsahardwoodlife.blogspot.com omphalos

    @AT33; you called Wade a mini-Jordan and had him at 2… yet the full-size, and quite frankly better Kobe Bryant version isn’t number 2? One thing people should keep in mind is that this list is based on production, not necessarily who is the better player so much. So while Wade might be a better player, KD might have a more productive season than either Lebron or Wade individually given that they are on the same team now (still can’t believe I’m writing these words after all this time).

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    The team Kobe took to the first round and lost had Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Kwame Brown starting in the Western Conference. I don’t know any other player who could take a roster that bad to the playoffs. He simply deserves to be #1 bc of the playoff performance and he doesn’t share the court with a top 3 player.

  • Tom P

    kobe is the type of guy that can only win his way, bballer on Oct. 21 2010 yes kobe has five rings three of which he was NOT the focal point and a great argument can be made that Pau Gasol deserved the finals mvp last year making Kobe the focal point on perhaps just one of his fistful of rings. This guy should have had 8 rings wit shaq but no

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    @TomP…Did you not see Gasol disappear in the three games in Boston. Did you not see Kobe score 23 straight in the third quarter of game 5? Did you not see the guy lead the team in scoring in game 7 to go along with 15 rebounds?

  • Michael Whyte

    For Lebron fans (and you haters) http://espn.go.com/nba/ watch the video about Lebron hurting, listen to Oscar Robertson. Damn the big O is all class. I love his dismissal of what Barkley said.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Every guy commenting in Kobe’s defense is a noted Kobe fan here. This is not an accurate argument to be in if you are tying to get a balanced opinion. Kap, Seed, Whyte, etc…..I see all of you.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    I could say in two of the last three Finals appearances….Kobe’s team lost by 39 in one game and lost the whole ball of wax in ’08 and in their latest title win, Kobe was shooting like Ray Charles and relied on someone else to get him to the finish line. I tend to overlook the Magic title win since Derek Fisher won that series for them with big shots in Orlando, but again, I try not to bring that up alot.

  • Harlem_World

    What’s not to like about KD? But he is NOT better than D Wade. That’s just hype and dumb talking. You should try not to listen to them.

  • http://www.simonlawy.vemma.com Simon Lawy

    Stop the hate, fellas!! Kobe fan or no Kobe fan, we all know Kobe is better player than Lechoke.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Simon IS a Kobe fan. So there’s that.

  • http://www.slamonline.com jumpman3224

    @TomP: People love to throw out that Pau should’ve been Finals MVP last year. What they forget is that every basketball analysts at was giving Kobe finals MVP win or lose going into Game 7. Pau was very up and down for the first part of the series. Sure he was huge down the strecth. But Kobe led the team in scoring and grabbed 15 boards. I don’t think Gasol was better enough than Kobe in game 7 to leap frog his performance in games 1 – 6. Also Kobe may not have been finals MVP for the first three, but he was a focal point especially when he was the go-to guy in the clutch do to Shaq’s bad FT shooting and keyed the team’s defense.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    @Eboy…the same is true for those in Lebron’s favor. You can’t seriously say that DFish won that series for LA. Kobe was putting up crzy numbers in that series.

  • http://Www.slamonline.com Myles Brown

    *resists temptation, goes back to work*

  • Tom P

    kap i stopped watching the finals last year, kobe shot 6/24 that game 7 which was horrible while pau was steady and against the suns he was up 3-1 in the series NO ONE loses that series especially if your one of the “greats”

  • http://www.slamonline.com jumpman3224

    @Eboy: You could look at that like (loss by 39 and the whole series in 2008) Kobe was a good enough leader to help his team recover from a 39 point loss in a Finals game by making/winning the Finals the next two years. (Relied on someone else to get him to the finsih line). His shot was off so he had to find other way to contribute to a win. TomAto – Tomato, I suppose.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    With Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton in their starting lineup and to be up 3-1 was a great accomplishment in its own right.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    My point exactly, jumpman.

  • BBaller

    Kobe has had a load of help,no question, the Gasol trade was criminal, the only positive, it gave the Lakers their respect back. The Leagues gotta have the Lakers respectable, its better when you beat them when they are honest.Yes Gasol and Shaq had major hands in the Lakers titles, but so did Kobe and yet but once again who hasn’t had help? Kobe is at home with his 5 rings smiling,not giving a shit whether he was the focal this or that.If Lebron can help Wade to multiple rings, i hope its Wade that wipes the smirk off Kobe’s face.

  • http://www.slamonline.com jumpman3224

    @Eboy: Yeah, it’s interesting how Kobe fans and non-Kobe fans can spin the same events in two completely different directions. At the end of the day, let’s just give these guys credit when its due. Another example, IF the Heat win the title this year; some people will praise LBJ for “sacrificing” and doing what it took to win and others will say that’s fine, but he couldn’t do it without Dwyane/CB1.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Royal

    @ Eboys 11:50 comment: On every post on this site that mentions LeBron you and Jtaylor are one of the first people to respond…..no disrespect to you two of course, but no argument on this site is accurate and unbiased lol

  • IHaveADream

    All anyone is really saying is Kobe sucks, LeBron sucks, or Kobe’s the best or LeBron’s the best. Stats really don’t mean a lot. It’s easy to pad stats when you’re the biggest and fastest player on the court. Will LeBron be as good at 32 as Kobe is now? I highly doubt it. When those hops start to go and he’s no longer the fastest player, what will happen? It will be interesting to watch. He better practice that jumpshot a lot more and develop half of the footwork that Kobe has because his greatest asset is his athleticism…Kobe’s pure basketball skills are off the charts.

  • IAMORANGE4EVER

    I’m no player hater, but I’m not buying KD being the 3rd best player in this league entering the 2010-11 season. I’d say he’s more on the cusp of being a top 5 player, imho.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Kobe Bryant number 1/2 right up: Wikipedia Style!!!

    In 2010, he became the all-time leading scorer in Lakers franchise history. Since his second year in the league, Bryant has started in every NBA All-Star Game that has been hosted, winning the All-Star MVP award in 2002, 2007, and 2009. He is a 12-time member of the All-NBA team and ten-time All-Defensive team, and is the youngest player ever to receive defensive honors. In 2008, he won a gold medal at the 2008 Olympics as a member of the USA national team.
    Bryant is a shooting guard who is capable of playing the small forward position. He is considered one of the most complete players in the NBA, and has been featured in the last twelve NBA All-Star games. Sports writers and sports casters have frequently compared Bryant to Michael Jordan, a comparison Bryant dislikes, but understands. In 2007, an ESPN poll of sportswriters voted him as the second best shooting guard in NBA history behind Jordan. He is a prolific scorer, averaging 25.3 points per game for his career, along with 5.3 rebounds, 4.7 assists, and 1.5 steals (as of the end of the 2009–2010 regular season). He is known for his ability to create shots for himself. He shares the single-game NBA record for three pointers made with twelve. Bryant is often cited as one of the most prolific scorers in the NBA, though his 45.5% career field goal average is considered moderate. He utilizes his wide array of moves and shots to elude defenders and score from virtually anywhere on the basketball floor. Aside from this, he is also a standout defender, having made the All-Defensive first or second team ten of the last eleven seasons. Both TNT and Sporting News named Bryant the NBA Player of the Decade for 2000–2009. Bryant has also been noted for his “clutch” play. For nine consecutive seasons, Bryant has been selected by an NBA GM survey as the player they most want taking the shot with the game on the line. BOOK THAT!!!

  • JTaylor21

    People ahem Kobefanatics are funny, you praise Kobe for grabbing 15 rebounds when his shot wasn’t falling but never give praise to Bron for getting 19 rebounds while dishing out 10 assists and still had the time to score 27 points in what was basically a game 7 for his team. The difference between Kobe and Bron the last few years was basically their teammates. Bron on one hand preformed GREAT throughout the last few playoffs (this year’s not as bad as people claim; 27/9/7) but his teammates came up SHORTER than Danny Devito while Kobe put up slightly lower playoff numbers but his teammates came up HUGE in the playoffs. That’s why I’ve always said Bron’s the BEST player in the L while Kobe’s the best player on the best team, there’s a difference folks.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    Lebron was swept in the finals…people have amnesia about that. The east was very weak the yr that happened. No mentions either how Lebron struggled in Game 6 agst Detroit and how Gibson had to save the day after that that 25 straight points game for LBJ.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    What about that phantom elbow injury and him disappearing in the Celtics series? The best player in the L doesn’t do things like that.

  • mytiman

    @Zeeky

    We’re talking about basketball skills here. How good they can be on the court. Not off it.

    And I have to agree with majority of you, I think Durant is a little overrated. He hasn’t prove anything yet. He was just a leader for the USA B-Team that won the gold. And the youngest scoring championship. But good Lord, he hasn’t even got out of the first round and everyone’s thinking that he should be the MVP.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Royal

    Well now LeBron is on a beast squad for the next 5-6 years so lets see what he does with it…….

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Am I the only dude in the entire universe who is a fan of both Kobe AND LeBron??? Both their games are sick, both are hella fun to watch, and if you’re hating on one of them, you’re missing out. Only times I ever say “f*ck Kobe” or “f*ck LeBron” is when they’re facing Chicago.

  • http://www.slamonline.com jumpman3224

    @Jtaylor21: Bron’s 27/19/10 (and 9 or 10 turns) in Game 6 came after a Game 5 in which it appeared as though he quit, floated on the sideline and was disinterested in the huddle. A game that he followed up, by instead of taking ownership of the loss – told fans that his play had spoiled them. That’s why no one praises his game 6 stats…we were “spoiled”.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Hey Kap. My name is Eboy. I like this game. I can play it all day. Do you remember (I know you do….you have the whole thing saved as a GIF as a screensaver) how Lebron quit on the Cavs against the Celts this past playoffs? I know you loved it. Do you remember when Lebron and Paul Pierce went head to head 2 seasons ago in an elimination game when Bron had no help and played the defending champs (at the time) to a standstill, by himself, and just fell short? I bet you can’t remember that. I just reminded you. 40 something points…..when he NEVER comes up big in the playoffs. Wait…..you just said Lebron scored 25 straight points in a playoff game…..that’s now two instances we’ve come up with where Lebron has done some really great work in the playoffs. How can this be? A miracle befell us? Christmas came early? Jesus finally made his earthbound return? AMAZING!!!!!

  • http://www.slamonline.com jumpman3224

    Also – Game 6 of Round 2, is not comparable to Game 7 of the Finals (esp. Lakers-Celts).

  • http://thephotoriot.com davidR

    before i read the article, i just wanted to comment to bryan crawford regarding yesterday’s topic of stephen jackson, and who’s spot he would (could) take:
    - ray allen
    - lamar odom
    - gilbert arenas
    - oj mayo
    i think he couldve made the list before those 4, but most especially over arenas. gilbert’s lack of d, and on and off court antics, puts dents in his overall game. compare that with stack jack, who also has his share of off-court issues, but is widely considered one of the best teammates to have around the league, plays his heart out, plays lockdown perimeter d, and instantly brings a swag/boosts team morale. also consider that as soon as the bobcats acquired stack, the wins started piling up, and they made the playoffs. granted they got swept in the 1st round, they would not have made it without stack

  • JTaylor21

    Kap, COME ON MAN. So 20/14/8/2/2 equals struggling in your world right? See someone on this site was right when they said that people OVERVALUE scoring a little too much today because in the past if Magic or Bird had those kinds of numbers in a series clincher people would be praising them but ever since AI/Kobe ball-hogging ways people only view scoring as the way to have a great game. You can dominate a game without even scoring more than 10 points ala Jersey’s JKidd. Give me a triple double before 40 points any day.

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    So after two 60+ win seasons (and home court advantage?), we’ve re-established the fact that the rest of the Cavaliers sucked while Lebron was a part of that organization. Magnificent.

  • Exile

    Wade is better. Wade’s placement on this list may be due to the fact that no-one wants to rank the top two players in the game and have them come from the same team. Kobe is great. Kobe is killer and makes no apologies for it. Kobe’s milage is high and he is fighting through injuries (even at the start). Kobe will not have a year HE will be happy with (even if the Lake show win it again). I think the top two slots for individuals belong to Miami this year and Durant should have been at number 4.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    JTaylor21
    Your wrong scoring became very popular with MJ, because that was what he was known for. I remember growing up the ESPN people/media didn’t say MJ 5 rebs had 5 assists and 2 blks. MJ scored 35 points to win the game. Later on ESPN starting putting up MJ field goal percentage and then we realized MJ was shooting horrible numbers to get those points, but got his points. MJ started the scoring sprees not AI and Kobe. COME ON MAN!!

  • http://yahoo.com Big O.

    What has KD won? Give me a break! If you think this guy is in the top 5 because he takes over 50% of his teams shots, plays subpar defense, subpar rebounder, and has not really made his teammates better then you are crazy Vincent Thomas. oh, he won a scoring title! big deal so has Michael Adams if my memory serves me right. You should be ashame of yourself to put this guy over Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard and now D-Wade. There is not way he is better than any of these guys especially D-wade.

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the Balla

    Eboy – Fisher won it for them? Jackson came up with a play that was beautiful and helped win that game, and the other shot was form a kobe assist/elbow, Kobe could have said NO I WANT THE BALL, but he didn’t It’s a team effort man! Come on. Pau was MVP, TOM, seriously, your view right now is ridiculous. Stop hating. Lebron is great we know… but if Pau was MVP of the finals this year and if Kobe wasn’t a focal point for the 3 ships with Shaq then you don’t watch basketball! Okay, maybe not so much the first ship, but the next two and ESPECIALLY the third. Get off it man… and by “IT” I mean the dicI< of sh1tty basketball knowledge!

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the Balla

    Also Eboy – If Kobe fans can’t comment on Kobe, than I am guessing you will not be commenting on the Heat anytime soon?

  • JTaylor21

    The Seed, you’re right sorry I wanted to say MJ but was afraid of having both the MJ and Kobe clan hunt me down and burn me alive at the stake. It was MJ that started that ish along with all the MJ and the jordanairees crap. @Jumpman, all I’m saying is that they can NOT praise one person for doing one thing but bash another for doing the exact same thing except at an higher level. Give me Bron’s game 6 even with the 9 TOs over KB’s GM7 any day.

  • http://www.twitter.com/TheDiesel Anton

    T-Mac is a killer.

  • Tom P

    @spacehip Jay: Yes, simple answer watch what happens to that god awful team this year
    @Kapp kobe has had 3 years in his prime years to prove that he could win a playoff series without a top 10 baller, did he do that? NO! Wade won a series as a rookie with odom and caron butler what happened when kobe got them he lost!

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    James, aren’t you supposed to be cleaning a gun or something?

  • Tom P

    james the balla you really mean that shaq could not have won three rings wit any other premiere sg cmon man dont disrespect shaq and his greatness like that he made the league unwatchable those years it was a foregone conclusion that shaq would win a ring back then

  • http://www.slamonline.com jumpman3224

    @Jtaylor21: it wasn’t the same exact thing, LeBron was coming off a game in which most of the basketball viewing world felt like he quit and then put down his fans with a stupid off-hand comment. That is why he gets no praise for that game (that and the fact that his was a Loss and Kobe’s was a win, another key difference).

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the Balla

    JTaylor – When you were slobbering all over Bron last year, and the year before and were saying he was going to win the ships and they had the top team in the NBA with over 120 wins in two season. There was no problem with talent, but than they lose, and he has no one. No one hates on Bron as much as ya’ll hate on Kobe, you even have Seed on here saying Bron is number one and I agree. But ya’ll still say Bryant doesn’t deserve sh1t. You are, sir, a joke! Stop commenting, thanks!

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Oh….and James…..I don’t revise history on the Heat’s behalf or Wade’s when they suck. If they play like sh*t, I call them out for it. I’ve done that for as long as I’ve commented on this site. I don’t scramble to cover dude’s shortcomings every time there’s criticism that comes his way. Truth is truth….and sometimes it hurts. That’s the difference. You cats can’t hear it that way. Tough sh*t.

  • Tom P

    kobe is all that is a quitter in game 7 against the suns he took 2 shots in the second half if that, Lebron NEVER did that in an ELIMINATION game this past playoffs i believe he had a triple double in a loss to the celtics

  • Bruno

    and this was supposed to be for the spot #3 Kevin Durant … I don’t want to imagine what is gonna happen in the comments with #1 and #2 tomorrow

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the Balla

    @Tom, NO! Who, Tmac? Iverson?
    @Eboy, mine is already over there waiting for me lol.
    QUESTION 1 OF THE DAY: What NBA teams have been swept in the last 25 years in the NBA Finals?

    ANSWER:
    Orlando Magic: Led by Kobeless Shaq
    Cleveland Cavaliers: Led by Lebron James
    NJ Nets: Led Jason Kid

    QUESTION 2 OF THE DAY: Which of the above teams lost be average of more then 10 pts in the sweep?

    ANWSER: Cleveland Cavaliers: Led by Lebron James

    QUESTION 3 OF THE DAY: Who is the only all star in the history of NBA to decrease his shooting % by 15% and point average by 6.5 pts per game from regular season to NBA finals?

    ANSWER: Lebron James.
    Regular season 47%, Finals 32%
    27.3 pts/game regular season. 20.8 pts/game Finals.

  • KB8toSG8

    @JT21……How many turnovers did LBJ have?? When exactly did he give those TOs? Didn’t they actually contribute a LOT more to the loss? And that too during the clutch? He could’ve had a quadraple double with those TOs.

  • JTaylor21

    Jumpman, GM 5 is not what we’re talking bout and shouldn’t matter because isn’t the sports world about “what have you done for me lately”. Therefore what Bron did for them lately was go out and damn near put up an unheard of 30/20/10 line in the most important game of the season. Also I’m talking about kobefans not giving him props not crazy cleveland fans they don’t count.

  • Tom P

    Yes, tmac, iverson, vince carter, reggie miller, they all could have climbed shaq’s back and won atleast three and if they weren’t so dramatic they probably would have won 8!

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the Balla

    lol @Tom, oh yeah, like Penny and Wade did?

  • Tom P

    james the balla Lebron was 22 when he went to the finals give it up Kobe couldnt get out of the first round of the playoffs when he was 27

  • http://www.slamonline.com jumpman3224

    @Jtaylor21: No what we are talking about is why no one gives LBJ props for that statline. I’m telling you, Game 5 has everything to do with it.

  • Michael Whyte

    @Enigmatic. I also love both players and have continued to voice that. I have Lebron jerseys, but Kobe posters. I’ll be honest i’m cheering for Lebron, he’s my favourie, just a beast! But you gotta love what Kobe does. He’s just as awesome to watch (in a different way). Kobe haters are quick to point out games in which he struggled, or his bad attitude at times, or his ball hogging ways. but all that is forgiven because he’s winning.

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the Balla

    lol Tom, I am done. You win lol.

  • Michael Whyte

    27 19 and 10, is a great stat line, no matter how many turnovers, or the result. Don’t be foolish.

  • Tom P

    well wade won a ring wit shaq on the team even though that was obviously wade’s team i think shaq would have been fine relinquishing his role as the number 2 to kobe eventually but kobe was such a douche about it shaq decided to leave..kobe and shaq should have won 8 rings together they didnt mainly cause of kobe’s selfish antics whereas lebron and wade decided to take pay cuts to form a team (with bosh) kobe decided to get paid max dollars and leave no room for shaq….shaq even gave up 10 mill when he was on the heat for antwan walker you tell me here who has been the team players here..

  • Michael Whyte

    @Kap Lebron was swept in the finals by Tim Duncan, at the age of… i dont know but he was young. Bryant at that age was probably working on getting minutes before e. jones!

  • JTaylor21

    jamestheballa, here you go again talking reckless over the net like you john gotti or something. I just started commenting here in the summer I wasn’t around during the playoffs, so how could you have know what I thought of the cavs chip chances? For your info, I thought that they would probably lose to the celts or magic last playoffs because unlike every other cavs fan and media I really saw the team for what it was; one that relied too much on ONE player to do everything offensively and defensively and ran an offense so easy a caveman could do it. Also how MANY times have I called Kobe a great player but kobefanatics are not satisfied until you burn cattle and give offerings at the Kobe altar. Dude is not my maker so I refuse to stoop that low but you kobe fans can go just ahead worshiping your idol.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Royal

    Micheal Whyte: 9 turnovers offsets 10 assists though………

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    SLAM’s level has been in a downwards spiral for quite some time, the level of this Top 50 players list has been average at best; from the positions of the players on the list, the write ups and to the conversation in the comment section. Unfortunately.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Royal

    Micheal Whyte: 9 turnovers offsets the 10 assists he got though…

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    @James That argument was a little soft man. LeBron even getting through detroit that year is one of the greatest individual accomplishments in playoff history. Daniel Gibson was the second best player on Cleveland in the playoffs, Daniel f’ing Gibson. they literally stood no chance against San Antonio, Poppovich had 3 legitimate all stars cleveland had 1 (2 if you count Zydrunas but we aren’t gonna be dumb) Poppovich also knew everything about Mike Brown and his style of coaching which was apparent 5 minutes into game 1. Ofcourse LeBron was gonna struggle immensley, but that was 3 years ago, it has no barring on anything today, also it could be argued that losing against a team that professional, confident, and organized was only a good thing for LeBron’s career.

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the Balla

    @nbk… oh I know it was soft, it has nothing to do with anything related to this lol. But we seem to be bringing up the Shaq/Kobe era, so why not! lol

  • unrel

    why do people discredit kobe… pau’s game.. fisher’s shot.. shaq.. etc.. of kobe’s 5 rings.. the lakers wouldn’t have won ANY without kobe.. regardless if he was the 1 or 2 option.. just as mj couldn’t win without pip.. or kerr/paxon’s shot.. come on guys.. let’s not be idiots.. so, what?.. bill russel doesn’t deserve 11 rings.. because all he did was block shots, rebound and dominate on the defensive end?.. please..

  • JTaylor21

    @jumpman, explain to me how a game that was over and done with has everything to do with why people still fail to this day to give props for that 27/19/10 line but praise KB for his 15 rebounds?

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the Balla

    I agree with you fully JTaylor.

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the Balla

    co-sign unrel, thank you!!

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Uhm….yeah unrel….replace Kobe’s name with Lebron and all his examples of suckiness to make it fair. Thanks.

  • unrel

    @Eboy.. not sure what you mean, homie..

  • Ben Flook

    Gotta agree with JTaylor LeBron is the best player, whereas Kobe is the best player on the best team, BUT if i had to pick 1 for a play-off series or a game 7 it would be Kobe every time.
    @Eboy if you count Pau, Ron and Lamar as all star level players (obviously Pau is) then by that logic surely Jamison Mo Will and Shag (possibly) need to be counted aswell. When Cleveland acquired Jamison ppl on here were saying that was the chip sealed, now Cleveland were a 1 man team? I think it was somewhere in between. Mo Williams and Antwan Jamison are high end role players, and that whole roster was built around Bron. Without him there they could struggle mightily or suprise everybody with a run at an 7th 8th seed, probably the former. Either way there will be a big adjustment period.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    lol fa sho, just wanted to make sure someone responded logically.

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the Balla

    lol it’s cool. I can’t talk to that Tom guy anymore *note to self*

  • Tom P

    cleveland is going to suck so bad this year, antwan jamison is not good, he has not won on any level and that team will not make the playoffs this year next year or ever again in the near future, mo williams game was made from lebron he gave that man all the courage in the world and confidence

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    I think Mo Williams kind of killed all talk about him being a relevant NBA player when he spoke of leaving the game because Lebron left the Cavs. Fragile minds make fragile players. Shaq is no All-Star anymore. Stop it. Jamison is about as much as an All-Star as I am. Playing on the Wizards on a scrub team in a scrub system made him look good for a few seasons. When he went to a team with expectations….well….you saw it, didn’t you?

  • http://slamonline.com Nella

    @ The Seed

    WTF are you talking about? Jordan shot 50% for his career and WELL over 50% the years he was putting up way over 30ppg. Check the stats compared to anyone you are a fanboy of today. AI was good but he was a chucker. Don’t compare him to MJ.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Seed tends to f*ck the world wide web with his terrible knowledge of all things basketball…..in case you didn’t know it.

  • Ben Flook

    Eboy i agree with you, but Ron Artest hasnt been an all star for a while and Lamar has never been one. Was just saying that you were using flawed logic. Jamison is no longer an all star but at Golden State Dallas and Wash he played at an all star level. Shaq as an all star was a definite stretch, but i was just trying to make a point. Going into the play-offs we could have had a spirited argument about who had the more talented roster. After the EC/SF it was clear that Cavs werent as talented as previous thought.

  • feez22

    hey @ unreal are you mad? did you even watch the lakers of the early decade? the lakers could have DEFINITELY won 1 or even 2 championships without kobe bryant. Gotta admit kobe was pretty good some of those series between the 1st rd and the finals. the Portland series pops to mind. i usually disregard the kings series due to it being RIGGED but w/e. in those 3 nba finals kobe shot the ball over 50% once and was HORRIBLE the other 2. they would have beat the sixers without kobe, the nets without kobe and imo the pacers is the only one where they got positive production from kobe. but clearly as soon as 04 rolled along when they needed kobe to dominate he scored on 37% from the field being guarded PREDOMINANTLY by 1 player (2nd yr player tayshaun prince… yes he shut kobe down).then we go to the 08 finals… should i even pull up his 40% shooting there? k… then we go to the 09 finals. Kobe’s best finals yet… even though he shot 43% he was clutch. then the 2010 finals… a BS fest. kobe literally shot 40% from the field and 37% in the teams WINS… tells me he was carried and not the other way around. If kobe were doing that with the kind of talent lebron had around him they wouldn’t even have beaten the thunder in the 1st round nevertheless being finals bound. just saying… i think its safe 2 say that even today kobe has NEVER dominated a finals series the way he should have… when kobe has a finals or even a playoff run that amounts to what wade did in 06 (best efficiency for a finals mvp EVER) then we can talk. still great 5 rings yada this yada that still not a top 5 player all time to me. magic, kareem, wilt, MJ, bird still better bc they played like mad men when it counted. kobe has played exceptional in 1 finals as the MAN out of 4 and 1 finals as 2nd man out of 3. just saying… seems like a cheap imitation of MJ if you asked me.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    COmparing Cleveland’s role players to LA’s is stupid. I’m sorry but judging a player by berths into the All Star Game is ignorant. LAL would not trade Lamar Odom or Ron Artest for any 2 players (2 for 1) on cleveland’s roster from last season not named LeBron James. No GM thinks Mo Williams is a legitimate starting PG on a title contender, Shaq hasn’t been helpful to a team after 20 minutes of floor time in 3 years (In phoenix he was just selfish, he killed the chemistry and ball movement, while making everyone around him miserable). All this and it should be plainly obvious to any human with two eyes and a brain that making the all star team in the west is 10 times the challenge it is making it in the east.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Clevelands supporting cast from last year is so bad that I would be willing to put money on them finishing below Toronto this year. That’s how bad they are, worse then a team that couldn’t make the playoffs with a top 15 player.

  • feez22

    btw pointing to the cavs talent… its the MEDIA that told you ppl especially you laker fans that don’t watch a lick of eastern conference basketball that the cavs had great talent. They fail to tell you that without lebron last yr the cavs went 1-5 and BARELY beat a spurs team without tim duncan and tony parker… they went on to lose to a number of teams and lost to a bogut-less bucks 66-80 to limp in the playoffs. i don’t see how a team like that is uber talented… think about it. W/O lebron in the lineup they lost by 14 to the bogut-less bucks. W/ lebron in the lineup they beat the BOGUT bucks by 29 points. thats why i keep saying lebron was that team. people come to me and say “lebron can’t be the only man on the squad” and “it takes a team to win”… guess what? when you go 27/19/10 and LOSE a game by 9 you are a 1 man show. Period. when you have to avg 31-8-8 on 56% shooting and 50% 3pt shooting against the 8th seeded bulls and beat them in 5 by a hairline (that series could have easily gone to 7 which is why i say hairline) you are a 1 man show. when the OFFENSE has no sets and you have to go 1 on 5 all day you are the TEAM (just like kobe was in the middle portion of this decade to the lakers). when in a series 3 of the 5 starters on the cavs not named lebron get severely outplayed and your 2nd best player is 38 yr old shaq you are the team. get what i am saying? i wouldn’t go as far to call it a situation like iverson had in the early 2000′s and i wouldn’t even go as far to call it a situation from lebron’s 06-07 campaign but nevertheless it was a 1 man show in cleveland and has been since lebron’s arrival. clevelands record w/o lebron in lineup all time? 9-26. pathetic ain’t it?

  • http://www.goal.com Tariq

    Eboy,

    You said Kobe has the luxury of playing with 3 perennial all-stars(Oct. 21, 11:01). Would you like to retract that?

  • Ben Flook

    nbk; i was just coming back at Eboy for one of the comments he made earlier, which i agreed with for the most part. Before the play-offs started you would not of said comparing talent levels of the two rosters would be stupid. The GMS may nt like Mo Williams that much but the coaches must have for atleast one season to vote him into the all star game. You seem like an anti Kobe guy so im not going to get in a debate with you when i have no bias towards either player

  • rob

    ok first of all stop talking about melo! he is not better than durant, he scores less and rebounds less which is the 2 MAIN things that SMALL FORWARDS should emphasize in their games. KD is getting taller, he is about 6’10 1/2 and he can only get stronger by getting in the weightroom and improve his inside scoring and rebounding. MELO HAS HIT HIS CEILING! im sorry but KD is only in his 4th year, melo in his 8th! melo hasnt done shit either and he is already in his prime. KD by the time he is in his 8th season, barring injury will have done soo much to make me forget about melo. so no comparison there. id rather compare KD and LBJ. KD will atleast win 1 ring in his career. melo will never win anything.

  • Ben Flook

    @feez I did say that Mo and Antwan were high end role players and that whole roster was built around Bron, aswell as adding that they will likely struggle mightily this year. Reading my comment through Anti Kobe/Pro LeBron coloured glasses or something?

  • feez22

    agreed nbk… i mean really deron williams has been an all star ONCE because of chris paul and steve nash. look at the PG’s in the east that have been all stars in that time. devin harris, jameer nelson, rajon rondo, allen iverson (09 iverson)… if deron were in the east he would be a multiple all star but nooo he’s stuck in SLC-Utah playing in the shadows… we don’t need to go far to see the discrepancies. Melo has been snubbed a number of times in the west to be an all star. in the east? don’t worry they got granger and gerald wallace lol.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    yes i would have, there is not one logical reason to say Clevelands supporting cast last season is comparable to LA’s, there just isn’t. – and the coaches almost always vote the second best player on the team with the best record in the conference into the all star game. Jamal Magloire was added to the All Star Team a few years ago, is he better then Andrew Bynum? Eboy knows what he’s talking about, regardless of his manners. And i’m not an anti-kobe guy, i am unbiased. If anything I would be a “kobe guy” considering I have a dog named after the dude.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    @Tariq – He meant Pau, Lamar, Artest/Bynum – who all would be all stars in the east. They are perennial all star caliber players.

  • http://www.slamonline.com jumpman3224

    @jtaylor21: I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, but fans felt burnt by Game 5 and were not satisfied by Game 6. It’s a perception thing. Since Game 6 resulted in the end of the series, a lot of people immediately looked at that series as a whole and it was Game 5 that should out. You obviously are aware that ppl don’t give LBJ love for Game 6, do you honestly think that Game 5 is not a reason that most ppl don’t give love (whether you personally agree or disagree with looking at it like that)?

  • feez22

    @ ben … i didn’t even respond to your post lol. when it says @ ben then you can respond… till then don’t “assume” that i responded to you bc i didn’t. i responded to @unreal on the first post and responded to all these foolish fans saying the cavs had as much talent as the lakers in the 2nd post. period.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    ^Exactly.

  • JTaylor21

    Feez22 thank you in my hulk hogan voice brother! That’s the same ish I was saying before, the media and over-zealous cav fans were the ones saying that BS because true Bron fans knew that this team wasn’t going to win a chip anytime soon. If you watched any of the cavs game the last 3-4 years, you would have saw a team that almost lost every game Bron wasn’t playing in. Apart from the Heat and DWade, no other team depended on one player as much as the cavs. Also when people claimed that last years cavs had all-star players surrounding Bron, I die a little inside every time. Who the hell was on the all-star team this year? NO ONE. Mo williams is an undersized PG who struggles mightily to create his own shot, gets abused on the regular by any and every PG, AJamison is an overrated, undersized shot-jacker who wouldn’t play D if his life depended on it and a 38 year old shaq that couldn’t drop a penny in the Pacific ocean. Please watch the game and decide with your own eyes instead of letting a so-called expert tell you who’s good and who’s isn’t.

  • rob

    And i believe KD will avg 31ppg 4ast 1.5spg 8.3 rpg 1.5bpg 3 TO/gm he is getting better and as his team is getting better, they will make some noise this season and into the postseason. THUNDER UP! BEAT LA!

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    ^ WOW! A KD-related comment! Ha, the last Durant-related comment was like an hour and a half ago.

  • http://www.slamonline.com jumpman3224

    @jtaylor21: Trust me man. I work in downtown Cleveland and all anyone (fan or media personality) talked about after Game 6 was Game 5.

  • The Philosopher

    Alright.
    LONG… LIVE… THE KING.

  • rob

    oh and please dont compare durant to melo. durant is in his 4th year, melo in his 8th. melo hasnt done anything(didnt even win ROY award), and does less than durant right now, so by the time durant plays as long as melo has, he’ll have done twice as much and might win 1 ring in that time.

  • IHaveADream

    @feez22
    The Lakers don’t win anything without Kobe during that 3-peat. I don’t know what you were doing for those 3 championships, but you definitely weren’t watching.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    None of the Lakers from 2000 to 2003 wouldn’t have ONE ring without Phil Jackson. In case you weren’t watching.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Neither would the 2009-2010 Lakers.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    the last 2 laker titles also. Ron Artest would not work in LA without Phil Jackson….and Kobe would have mentally beat down Andrew Bynum so far without Phil in the locker room he would be asking for Kwame Brown back (IMO)

  • JTaylor21

    Jumpman, I get your point and it probably had something to do with GM5 but that doesn’t mean it’s right and fair. People seem to forget that last playoffs vs the Magic Bron put up an unheard of 38/8/8/51% but the Cavs STILL lost, I bet they were blaming Bron after GM6 for the loss too, then this year he put up 27/9/7 and they still lost. Those numbers show you that NO matter what Bron did, the Cavs were still destined to lose and that if cav fans should be pointing the finger at anyone it should be his “houdini” teammates and the organization. Let me ask you, were you blaming GM5 for the series loss or something else?

  • feez22

    @jumpman3224 I agree. lebron did have a horrible game in game 5. however people act as if his team played so awesome and that he was the only reason they lost… guy scored 15 pts in game 5 and they lost 120-88. that means he would have had to go all “07 detroit” on these celtics. If a player that has all the talent around him im saying that going “detroit” on your opponent should not be necessary… not only was it necessary for lebron to do that… in order for the cavs to beat the celtics lebron had to go all “07 detroit” on the celts twice. just tells me his teammates weren’t there. btw after game 6 i watched espn first take and watched skip bayless and rob parker blame the series 100 PERCENT on lebron james. see thats the media deception for people that didn’t even watch the series. if people actually watched it they would know that lebron and shaq were the only guys playing out there with mo williams playing 2 good halves out of 12 and jamison playing 1 good game out of 6 (which was a blowout in game 3 btw)

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    Well you have to make arguments with hypotheticals then its time for you to take your L like a man Eboy.

  • feez22

    @IHaveADream… i could say the same thing about shaq and phil jackson buddy. the ends to the means of that team wasn’t kobe. it was shaq & phil jackson. if YOU watched those series you would know that. i guess not.

  • IHaveADream

    By the way, there are much more people on LeBron’s nuts than there are on Kobe’s. It’s pretty funny to read some of these comments lol. I’m a big fan of LeBron as a basketball player, but let’s not act like he beats people with superior skill. You don’t watch him to see what kind of ridiculous shots he’s going to make. You watch him to see if he will be able to dunk on someone or if he will run behind someone and block their shot. Or maybe to see him make a nice pass. It’s his strength, jumping ability and passing that are his strongest assets. There’s panic in the league because of one man and one team…Kobe Bryant and the Lakers. LeBron and Bosh go to Miami for what? To beat the Lakers. Melo is trying to get out of Denver for what? To beat Kobe and the Lakers. The Celtics added Shaq and JO for what? To try to beat the Lakers. CP3 wants out of New Orleans why? To get on a team that can eventually try to beat the Lakers. So if anyone can claim to be a king, it’s Kobe Bryant. Everyone is looking up to him. So people on here talking as if LeBron is the greatest thing since MJ sound hideous and regardless of how many stats you want to find online and post on here to try to prove your point, it’s holds no weight. You can try to discount Kobe and his accomplishments all you want but the more you talk, the more you prove the point how great he is and how relevant he is in the history of basketball. If he was irrelevant and if he was just a role player on those Laker teams, you wouldn’t spend so much time talking about him. Period. Now let’s get ready to watch some good preseason ball tonight and tomorrow night and the great season that starts on Tuesday night.

  • BRAVO

    5 DWIGHT HOWARD
    4 DWAYNE WADE
    3 KEVIN DURANT
    2 LEBRON JAMES
    1 KING KOBE BRYANT!

    I TOLD YALL!

  • http://www.slamonline.com jumpman3224

    @feez22: Most people that I spoke with were more disappointed in a percieved lack of effort or interest than a poor statisctical outing. And then his “Cavalier” attitude about it in the post-game presser didn’t help.

  • r dub

    It’s funny that Kobe was now a role player on the three-peat lakers…hate is such a wasted emotion.

  • IHaveADream

    If YOU watched, you would have seen that Kobe wasn’t a role player who was just following behind Shaq waiting for a shot. Shaq was the most dominant player on that team because of his size and strength obviously, but skill-wise, Kobe was the man. You cannot deny that if you know basketball. Could they throw the ball to Shaq when it was time to win? No. That was Kobe because Shaq, if he got fouled, wasn’t going to make his free throws. Much like Dwight Howard now. From quarters one to three, sure, Shaq was who they rode. But in the fourth quarter, Kobe was the main option. That’s what the appeal of the Lakers were. Teams were thinking about whether they should try to contain Shaq or Kobe. Out of AI’s mouth, who played them in the Finals in 2001, he mentioned that it was hard because you have to deal with Shaq and then you have Kobe too. Shaq himself talked about the 1-2 punch. You make it sound like people just didn’t think about Kobe at all lol. You’ve proven yourself to not be knowledgeable about basketball matters if you truly believe that Kobe was just one of the other guys on that team.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    Welp… Looks like IHaveADream just busted Eboy,feez22,Jtaylor, and rest of the haters nuts. Touche’

  • http://www.goal.com Tariq

    nbk:
    Do you know what “perennial” means? When you say someone is a perennial all-star, it doesn’t mean a player who has all-star potential, it means someone who is an all-star almost EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Players who SOMETIMES make the all-star team, like, say, Carlos Boozer, are NOT perennial all-stars. People like Kobe, LeBron, Wade, Dwight Howard are. They are the best of the best. Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum and Ron Artest are NOT those dudes. You could even argue that Pau Gasol is not a perennial all-star, since he’s only been an all-star 3 times (twice since becoming a Laker), but I’ll give you Gasol. Just stop with the foolishness, or else we can say that Boobie Gibson and Big Z are “perennial all-stars” because they have the potential to be all-stars in the CBA or something convoluted like that.

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the Balla

    co-sign IHaveADream!!!!!!

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Kobe is great, but you Laker fans are delusional about how great he has been.

  • http://slamonline.com Eboy

    Yea…Kobe should be #1. And now that I think about it: Lebron sucks and so does the Miami Heat.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    yes i do that’s why i said perennial all star caliber. you see the word caliber

  • http://slamonline.com Eboy

    GO LAKERS!!!

  • Bruno

    hate is not the problem, the problem is haters think they know everything about the game but no … remember NO, there’s someone who knows as much as you or more than you

  • http://www.goal.com Tariq

    Eboy declares:
    “None of the Lakers from 2000 to 2003 wouldn’t have ONE ring without Phil Jackson. In case you weren’t watching. Neither would the 2009-2010 Lakers.”

    I wonder how many rings they’d have without Kobe.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    who in the world called Kobe a role player? The premise of that argument from IHaveADream seems to be made up by IHaveADream….

  • http://www.goal.com Tariq

    “Perennial all-star caliber”? LOL. I had a tomato soup sandwich for lunch.

  • JTaylor21

    IhaveaDream, sure that’s all Bron does, what about Kobe all he does is take contested shot after shot and when he misses one he flails and cries like a female dog begging for a foul. Dude gets beat off the dribble on the regular, he gambles more than CB34 does in vegas, let Agent Zero drop 60 big ones on his head then later tried to hate on a** whupping Gil handed out, shot his team out of a series they were heavily favored in an attempt to show he was better than Shaq, I mean I could go all-night long with this ish but it’s TOO easy. True Bron fans know that dude still has a few areas to get better in unlike Kobe fans who swear he’s the best thang since condom wrappers. Get real and come out from that coma that mamba snake bite has you in.

  • http://www.goal.com Tariq

    “perennial all star caliber”? HA! I had a tomato soup sandwich for lunch today. It was delicious. What is a “tomato soup sandwich”? It’s the breakfast of “perennial all star caliber” players.

  • http://www.goal.com Tariq

    Sorry for the duplicate comment.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    All Feez said was the Shaq was the key to those championship teams. Which outside of FreeThrow time is 100% true. Shaq proved that by leaving LA and winning a title with a less skilled dwyane wade. (say whatever you want, Shaq shouldered the majority of defensive focus, allowing wade to do what kobe couldn’t..with shaq just 2 years prior).

  • http://slamonline.com Eboy

    @nbk
    Are you suggesting Kobe is overrated? I know the guy is far from perfect be he is also the closest to the GOAT. Guys are always downplaying what he does. For instance, “It was the raptors he scored 81 against.” “He never would of won without Gasol.” “He has 5 rings but 4 of those he got being second fiddle.” “Yea he scores alot of points but he’s a ballhog.” “He only wins because PJ is his coach.” “He only wins because he plays for the Lakers.” “He didn’t deserve finals mvp bc he shot 6-24″

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    @nbk
    Are you suggesting Kobe is overrated? I know the guy is far from perfect be he is also the closest to the GOAT. Guys are always downplaying what he does. For instance, “It was the raptors he scored 81 against.” “He never would of won without Gasol.” “He has 5 rings but 4 of those he got being second fiddle.” “Yea he scores alot of points but he’s a ballhog.” “He only wins because PJ is his coach.” “He only wins because he plays for the Lakers.” “He didn’t deserve finals mvp bc he shot 6-24″

  • http://Www.slamonline.com Negative kreep

    Eboy, You are a noted LeBron fan, and in the PAST was “that guy” killing Kobe For reasons stated above. So to be fair, as farr as accuracy or bias is concerned, that’s calling the kettle black bro. But you’ve made some great points most of wich I agree with. My only major beef is the willingness to prematurely put LeBron in the “conversation” at first you say he doesn’t deserve it YET…Not until he does what Kobe’s done with his present team and won multiple titles. Ok, but The team LeBron has in Miami is more comparable to the dominant Shaq/Kobe Lakers superteam. My point is, You along with many others gave little to no credit to #8 for those first 3 ships. Everybody remember the “Kobe can’t win withought Shaq” argument? As you mentioned, just a few seasons ago Kobe was getting killed around here…That was AFTER he ALREADY Won 3 Rings!!! After not before. If that was the standard Kobe was held to, then LeBron has to do allot more than just win 3 in Miami. Ps theres no Real honest debate as to who the greatest player since Jordan IS. Shaq coulda been the goat, but was lazy and didn’t have the ethic to match talent. Duncan WAS great, the “most fundamental” PF ever. Kobe IS still the most skilled,clutch,fundamentally Sound player of his generation and he’s still not finished defining his greatness, Argument over.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Tariq……perhaps it’s better you stay retired as a commenter. And just to get out of this maelstrom of stupidity while I still have brain cells left, Kobe was good in the early 200 title wins…..no doubt……he was Pau Gasol good. Bye!

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    *2000′s title wins.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    yeah they play at an all star level every year. ther isn’t 45 roster spots available on the all star team so every single year there will be all star caliber players that don’t make it. So you would be content arguing that Deron Williams is not very good because he isn’t a perennial all star? your logic is wrong, all star selections mean absolutely nothing. NOTHING – skill means everything. Lamar Odom, Andrew Bynum (never all stars) > Mo Williams….(or here to make this easier for you, thse two > allen iverson (a perennial all star up until last season). get it? is it easier to understand now? enjoy your soup sandwich

  • IHaveADream

    @Jtaylor
    Think about this, if Kobe was the same as LeBron, mainly strength and size, he would have been done after his first knee surgery possibly. The fact that he’s still performing at a superior level is a testament to his skill. That’s an undisputed fact. Try to take a little break from your LeBron love fest. And if you want to talk about defense, the only reason why people talk about LeBron’s defense is because he blocks people from behind.
    @nbk
    feez22 talks as if Kobe was a role player. That’s what I was responding to. He said that the Lakers could have won without Kobe which is obviously not true.

  • http://www.goal.com Tariq

    Let’s not forget that LeBron played with Zydrunas Ilgauskus, who is a “practical three-point champion”. By this I mean that, sure, he doesn’t have three-point range, but if he did, he would win the three-point competition.

  • http://www.goal.com Tariq

    LeBron also played with Jamario Moon, who is a “potential Hall of Fame slam-player,” which means that if he played as well as he dunked, he would be a HOFer.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Kobe is not closest to the goat. If your saying he is the second best player ever, then yes he is so overrated its not worth wasting my time on such stupidity. Kobe has literally been spoonfed the best teammates over the course of a nonceltic career in NBA history. And people try and give him credit like he is the main cog in 5 championship runs. Shaq proved his dominance and role in those championships the same year kobe did, 2006, when Shaq won a title with a 3rd year pro, and Kobe was struggling to make theplayoffs. GTFOH trying to push this conversation to comparing Kobe to Michael Jordan, or anyone else in the top 5 of all time. LIke Michael said, Kobe is a top 10 guard of all time, anything higher is overrated.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    That was a b*tch move by eboy. That statement is about as controversial as you can get. Kobe is Gasol good?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Tariq, you kind of just blew it. I still love you though.

  • IHaveADream

    @ nbk
    No, Dwyane Wade took over that team from Shaq. The Finals just stamped it home, but that team was Dwyane’s before he went off in the Finals. Shaq has always needed a great two guard to play with. He’s said that many times himself. You speak as if Shaq could have won by himself. Stop your ridiculousness.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Individual Skill Kobe might be a top 5 all time player, but in terms of effectiveness, contributions to winning, and dominance, Kobe is not in the conversation….sorry

  • http://www.goal.com Tariq

    Another of LeBron’s former teammates is Ben Wallace, an “all-star”.

  • Ben Flook

    @feez my bad, but if i was just talking about a subject (comparison of talent between the two rosters) and then you post talking about the same thing i’m going to reply whether you @ me or address me directly. We are all talking about the same stuff here. Jtaylor you talk as if all Kobe does is take bad shots and moan to referees? You are right that LeBron is the best player in the league, but you downplay Kobe all the time. I know I know a lot of Kobe fans downplay LeBron but your one of the most frequent commenters so it seems like your doing it more often. To finish i dont think any1 can argue that Kobe has been the best player playing until the last game of the season (play-offs) for the last 3 years. To consistently be the best player in the finals is phenomenal (although he cant keep up with LeBron for 82 games anymore)

  • the nerve

    f*ck kobe, lepunk, wade durant.
    all dem n*99as.
    the best player in da world is eric dampier.
    HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!
    wadup CHUMPZ!!!!!
    Fresh outta jail 4 3rd time this year man!! prolly be back by xmas tho.

  • basketblogger

    the player with the most comments before the season starts is the #1 player

  • IHaveADream

    @nbk
    Let me continue to educate you. What is being said is that no one will ever be Michael Jordan most likely. But also, no one will ever be Kobe Bryant. Why are people so upset at Kobe? Because he reminds them of Michael. That’s a fact. To say that Kobe will never be MJ is more of a praise on him than a knock on Kobe. He’s perhaps the second greatest two guard of all time behind Mike even if Mike won’t admit it. And for the second time, Dwyane won that title for Shaq. Shaq didn’t beat the Mavs….D-Wade did. Wake up.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    With regard to Tom’s 11:14AM comment, Jerry West had nothing to do with Pau Going to LA.

  • unrel

    @feez… without getting into a back and forth debate.. you got to be out of your mind to think the lakers could have won without kobe.. logically.. forget the could haves and all that bs.. who would have done what he did in those runs.. glen f’n rice?.. ron harper, b. shaw?.. come on, son.. and i’m not pumping up kobe over lebron.. i have the same argument for bron haters.. cause i love both of their games..

  • http://www.goal.com Tariq

    Eboy:
    Don’t tell me I blew it. I’m a Pulitzer-Prize-caliber-winning commenter. Of course, I don’t know what that means, but that shouldn’t be a problem. It FEELS right, in my gut.

  • Ben Flook

    nbk Lamar Odom was a model of inconsistency for years, and still is now from game to game in the regular season. All star talent no doubt, all star production not close. Same with Andrew Bynum. Bynum would of been an all Star in the East by now though i agree. Lamar not sure he played pretty good in Miami but was never mentioned as an all star candidate.

  • http://www.simonlawy.vemma.com Simon Lawy

    Tomorrow is gonna be really FUN

  • IHaveADream

    @ nbk
    How can you say that Kobe is top 5 all time and then turn around and say that he is not in the conversation? What in the world are you talking about?

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    Wow. The Cavs smacked the Lakers last Christmas, and all that was spoken about was how classless the Laker fans were (true), and when Antwan went in how it was a wrap for the rest of the league. Fast-forward to april/may, once again the Cavs’ supporting cast is trash. Yet nobody sees the obvious contradiction of blaming the team once they lost. Listen closely…. Lebron is a production machine. If Lebron gives 40/20/10, there’s a possibility that his team can still lose. Sure that sound’s crazy, but.. That’s what we’ve been seeing his entire career thus far right? Right.

  • JTaylor21

    I dont know if you remember how skinny lebron was when he came into the league but if you do, you also remember how much he bulked up after his first couple years and really started to dominate smaller guards. When will KD put in the time like lebron to bulk up and make himself unguardable. Strength is holding KD back from being a scary force.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    “in terms of effectiveness, contributions to winning, and dominance, Kobe is not in the conversation”…WoW!!! Has nbk watched the nba in the last 15 years. Being in the league and one of the top five players for 15 years is proof of dominance. 5 rings is his contributions to winning along with 7 finals appearances and being a human video game, scoring 81 points, avg 35pts for a season, top ten in nba history in scoring, all time lakers leading scorer, all time lakers leading score in postseaon is about as effective as you can get. Your comments are just getting ridiculous now.

  • JTaylor21

    Haahaa, EBoy just killed it so I’ll steal one of his line. Kobe was “Pau Gasol” good during the Shaq-led Laker 3peat so how the HELL can he be close to the so-called GOAT or even the best from this era? Riddle me that kobefanatics. @Ihaveadream, fezz22 was right when he said that people obviously have NEVER watched any of Bron game and only watch SC’s Top-10 because if you did you will know that he doesn’t just “block people from behind” he actually shuts them down ask Laker fan favorite PP he’ll vouch what I’m saying. All you need to know is 60, kobe should give back all those undeserved defensive first-teams because it’s a disgrace that he has more defensive team selections than the GDPOAT, a DAMN shame.

  • the nerve

    ayo Crawford! WADDUP N*g9A!!!

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    IHaveADream – please go back and watch those Heat Games. Wade took over the finals, Shaq was double teamed on almost every possession all season, through the playoffs. Shaq took all the attention away from everywhere else. Either way though, your saying Wade is better then Kobe, considering Kobe wouldn’t win a title as the “go to guy” with shaq. (that year they lost to Detroit, in 04, with GP and Malone, that was the one year with Shaq that Kobe was the “go-to guy”). Kobe then went on to miss the playoffs, struggle to get into the playoffs, and then through a very public tantrum about how bad his teammates are and about how bad he wanted to get out of town, even complained openly about andrew bynum. All of that would never happen if he was as truly great as ya’ll laker fan/Kobe lovers make him out to be. Argue all you want, just know that downplaying Kobe’s supporting cast while trying to say he is the closest thing to the goat is just demonstrating your loose grip on reality to the world.

  • http://Www.slamonline.com Negative kreep

    Eboy, You are a noted LeBron fan, and in the PAST was “that guy” killing Kobe For reasons stated above. So to be fair, as farr as accuracy or bias is concerned, that’s calling the kettle black bro. But you’ve made some great points most of wich I agree with. My only major beef is the willingness to prematurely put LeBron in the “conversation” at first you say he doesn’t deserve it YET…Not until he does what Kobe’s done with his present team and won multiple titles. Ok, but The team LeBron has in Miami is more comparable to the dominant Shaq/Kobe Lakers superteam. My point is, You along with many others gave little to no credit to #8 for those first 3 ships. Everybody remember the “Kobe can’t win withought Shaq” argument? As you mentioned, just a few seasons ago Kobe was getting killed around here…That was AFTER he ALREADY Won 3 Rings!!! After not before. If that was the standard Kobe was held to, then LeBron has to do allot more than just win 3 in Miami. Ps theres no Real honest debate as to who the greatest player since Jordan IS. Shaq coulda been the goat, but was lazy and didn’t have the ethic to match talent. Duncan WAS great, the “most fundamental” PF ever. Kobe was already on par with those two what elevates him is that he IS still the most skilled,clutch,tough,fundamentally Sound player of his generation and he’s not finished defining his greatness. < Reality.

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    Lmao @nbk, he just said “I love tomato sauce, pepperoni, melted cheese, and bread crust. But Pizza disgusts me.

  • Bruno

    damn right

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    y’all having tomorrow’s argument today. lol.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Kap i was only referring to him being “close to the goat”. Read all of what I say, or try and comprehend the full comment before you jump to conclusions. The GOAT (MJ) scored more points, on a better % shooting, with better rebounding, passing, and defensive numbers while unquestionably being the best player on 6 championship teams. Kobe was the best player on 2 teams, arguably wasn’t even the best player in last years finals. Kobe has never approached 50% on a season from the field, let alone the playoffs, where Michael averaged over 30 and over 50% shooting every year he won a title if i’m not mistaken. Compare Kobe to Larry Bird, that will make more sense, but even then, it still won’t look good in Kobe’s favor.

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    @Everyone; Shaq was in foul trouble many-a-playoff game in his Laker years in the 4th quarter. Is this untrue? I’m not partial towards Kobe… But don’t attempt to bend the time-space continuum please.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    Kobe is the only player who gets killed because he played on great teams. You never hear about Magic playing with Worthy, Cap or Jordan with Pippen. Or Olajuwon with Clyde Drexler. Or Tim Duncan with Robinson.

  • the nerve

    spaceship
    commere n gimme a kiss

  • jls

    and Dwight Howard continues to try and rap instead of working to get into the discussion of best in the league. Way to go Dwight your the lamest baller in the last 20yrs. BTW nobody ever questioned Jordans status as the most dominant baller when he was ontop during the 90′s but everybody questions whether Kobe is the real deal, i think that says alot right there.

  • http://Www.slamonline.com Negative kreep

    ^^^wtf? Cmon slam fix this ish!

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    HA! Co-sign Allenp.

  • JTaylor21

    That 2:58pm imposter posing as the real VeintiUno is obviously not me. KD will never be big it’s just the way the cookie crumbles, you could pump him with a gallon of steroids and dude will still be skinny. No matter how much pounds he put on in the off-season, Artest will still abuse him this season whenever they met.

  • IHaveADream

    @JTaylor
    LeBron most likely bulked up because he needed an advantage to go along with his athleticism. Give it up with the Gilbert Arenas 60 point game. That’s all you talk about when you discuss Kobe’s defense. How many times has he made the all-defensive team? I guess the people who vote on that never watch him play. I watch LeBron every time he’s on national tv so I know what I’m talking about. His on the ball defense is getting better but the best part of his defensive game right now is still the blocks from behind. You’re just as clueless as nbk.
    @nbk You killed yourself when you said that Kobe was top 5 all time and then in the same sentence said that he wasn’t in the conversation. You’re incapable of saying anything that makes any sense anymore.

  • http://www.goal.com Tariq

    Spaceship Jay:
    “Lmao @nbk, he just said “I love tomato sauce, pepperoni, melted cheese, and bread crust. But Pizza disgusts me.”

    I love tomato soup sandwiches, and I think nbk and eboy love them too. They have soup, tomatoes, sandwiches, and other fun stuff.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    See who is killing Kobe? who said Kobe wasn’t great? Kobe just isn’t in the conversation as the GOAT. And as long as your talking to logical people he never will, no matter how many titles he wins. Because he as an individual is not/was not a dominant force that turned teams into winners. If he didn’t have the teammates he’s had, he would be in the same conversation as dominique wilkins. But he didn’t, he played in LA where he has had the opportunity to compete for a title in 10 of 13 years, so he immediately gets boosted up a notch. I agree that he is not in the same conversation as dominque because he actually has rings, but lets not romanticize his effectiveness and make him out to be something he isn’t.

  • http://www.goal.com Tariq

    If Andrew Bynum were in the East, he’d be an all-star.
    If Deion Branch were in Seattle, he’d suck.
    If Janet Jackson were my girl in 1993, oh the things I’d do to her (if I had reached puberty).
    If I were a perennial-all-star-caliber player, I would have an identity crisis.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    Kobe was hands down the best player for the Lakers in the finals. Anyone who disagrees is just hating or only watched game 7. And I never said Kobe was better than MJ. He definitely is better than Bird and I would like for someone to defend that with something besides FG% and rebounding. Like I said, Kobe is the best player the league has seen since Magic and MJ. No one gives a damn about his FG%. There are not too many guards who are gonna shoot 50% during a season besides Nash. Players are bigger, stronger, and quicker so the view to the goal is not what it use to be. There were not 6’10 guys playing SF and SG when Jordan played. Take that into account along with Kobe not having a conscience when he takes a shot.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    I like how I compared a 10 year prior Kobe to a modern day Pau and a staunch Laker Lover takes umbrage with it like I said Kobe was Paul Shirley or some sh*t. So, now you’re saying Pau is garbage because he plays second banana to Kobe today. So, if that’s your logic (which obviously it is since you wrote it)then that must make Kobe some kind of “role player” too. He played the sideman role to Shaq. He may have shown out with some great games, but that was Shaq’s team. Just like Pau has had some great Finals games too. Understand? I love when people commit comment suicide.

  • jesse

    So james is #1? .. and KD over Wade, has disrespect all over it… KObe ok number 2 mmm with a ring from that bad of a shooting avergage over the whole finals not just that horible last game ok .. but wadwe should be 2 or 3 not 4.. Kobe is a bit selffish i would understand if hes team sucked but he ahs no reason not to pass.. but he wants to be just like jordan but cant be him, his averages will be the worst… Lebron fan, KD fan but the truth wade is still above KD.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    you don’t know the difference between skill and effectiveness ihaveadream? Skill is something a person has, effectiveness is something a person can do with that skill. Earl Boykins is far and away more skilled then Shaq, hell Shawn Bradley is far and away more skilled then shaq, but are you stupid enough to call them better? Use logic

  • IHaveADream

    @ Kap
    Kobe gets killed because people just don’t like him personally. Either that or those people are really dense when it comes to basketball. What great player has ever gotten hated on as much as Kobe for playing with a great team? This is a guy who went from being a 17 year old rookie bench player to being one of the top 10-15 players of all time. Every championship team was a great team…that’s a prerequisite for winning lol. But I guess it’s different rules for different players based on one’s personal feelings towards him. It’s the same sad argument all the time. “6-24 in Game 7″…”60 points from Gilbert Arenas”…”Played with Shaq and coached by Phil”…It’s always something, anything to discount him as a player. Now we will see what will be said about LeBron if he wins with Wade and Bosh. I bet it won’t be the same as it has been with Kobe. There will be no asterisks placed next to him as there has been for Kobe. Not from these LeBron lovers.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Kap…..since Kobe came along…..there was a guy named Shaq that dominated the league in ways that Kobe never did, before Kobe even got a minute of NBA playing time. You’re sounding like a dumb guy again. Stop.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Kap – “I never said Kobe was better than MJ. He definitely is better than Bird”
    lol sure

  • Tom P

    hands down best player eh? well pau gasol did average 20 and 10 that finals

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    @nbk; no disrespect to Lebron, but would you label him as effective then?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Kobe lovers see things one way. It’s funny. They do the same thing to try and take the luster off of guys careers like Shaq, Michael, Lebron and today Kap insulted Larry Bird with his ignorance. It’s ok to be stupid, it’s not ok to be stupid only playing for one team.

  • IHaveADream

    @ nbk
    Effectiveness is the impact a player has on a team and their chances of winning. So take Kobe away from the Lakers and they don’t win regardless of how great Shaq was. I think that’s effectiveness. You’re the one who’s confused buddy.

  • Ben Flook

    Shaun Bradley has never been more skilled than Shaq

  • http://www.goal.com Tariq

    Eboy: “I love when people commit comment suicide.”
    =
    OJ Simpson: “I hate it when people murder their ex-wives and get off scot-free.”

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    @Eboy…Gasol has never avg over 20 pts with the Lakers where as Kobe was well over 24 pts a season during Shaq tenure. That pretty much crushes your theory on he being the Gasol on those teams. Kobe and Shaq were usually both top five in scoring those years. BOOK IT!!!

  • http://Www.slamonline.com Negative kreep

    Nbk: your bias is clouding you’re basketball knowledge.Jordan played with PIppen, Rodnan, kukoc, and a gang of great role players, Magic had Kareem, Worthy, Wilkes, Coop ect, Wilt played with Jerry west & Elgin Baylor, Kareem had Oscar Robertson & Magic Johnson ect, Russell had Havlicek, Cousy ect. These are all players worthy of being mentioned in the top 5. You fail my friend.

  • JTaylor21

    Ihaveadream, sure that’s the reason why he bulked up, like he wasn’t already huge coming out of highschool. COME ON MAN dude was already 235 pounds his first year. Also seriously when was the last time you remember Kobe locking someone down? Take your time, I’ll wait…… Times up NEVER it’s being a while, if I remember correctly PP was beasting Kobe in the 08 finals until PJax decided to preserve what was left of Kobe’s manhood and moved him or should I say HID him on Rondo. Do you think that PJax would have ever moved MJ onto someone as porous offensively as Rondo because he was getting his a** lit up NO. Kobe’s overrated defensively just accept it and move on, it’s just life nobody is great at everything.

  • The D Train

    If Lebron had Kobe’s insane desire and work ethic, he’d be the greatest ever…which is in play even though he isn’t wired like Kobe. That says something about how crazy talented/good Lebron is. Also, we all reference stats to back our various arguments, but we all know those are just a guideline, and not the only factor in how a player played, or how good a player is. Regarding Lebron’s game 6 from this year’s playoff series: I watched that entire game and I have never seen a more deceiving stat line in my life. If you watched the game Lebron was not in balls-to-the-wall, I’d-better-dominate-or-my-team-is-going-home-mode. It’s a testament to how good he really is that he could put up those numbers while seemingly somewhat disinterested.

  • JTaylor21

    OH HELL NO! Did someone just say that Shawn “human poster” Bradley is more skilled than Shaq. This comment section just strapped a bomb too its chest and committed suicide with that one. RIP to this page.

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    @Eboy; true, the Kobe love gets as weird as the Kobe hate. But Kobe never was the reason for a series win in the Shaq days?… Ever!? Kobe wouldn’t BURY Bird in a match-up situation?

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Kobe vs LeBron is the most talked about topic on this site. It’s beyond boring…

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    @spaceship idk watch Cleveland this year and let me know. I didn’t say Kobe isn’t effective I said he isn’t as effective as Michael or any other top 5 all time player. @Kap I think LA with shaq would have three peated with wade, LeBron, even Tracy McGrady – so kobes impact on those teams is overblown.

  • Tom P

    and kobe has a great team all four starters on that team are in the top 5 at their positions Bynum possible top 3-4 center, Pau Gasol #1 or 2 PF, Ron Artest #5 sf in the league (now i know many will disagree with this but to my knowledge only ones better than him at this position are lbj, melo, durant, paul pierce and he seems to lock down most of these guys wen he gets a chance) kobe #1 or 2 shooting guard in the game and i would take derick fisher in a big game which keeps him in my top 10 point guards in the league probably at 10

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    Bird can’t even hold Kobe’s jock strap. Kobe is stratosphere’s above Bird. I don’t care how much you guys bash me for this statement either because I stand by it fully.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Damn near 300 comments and 98% of them had nothing to do with the topic at hand, Kevin Durant.

  • jls

    Kobe bulked up,dwight did, michael starting lifting, lebron definitely bulked up, dont sit there and tell me KD cant bulk up because hes just a skinny dude, he aint MBol, everybody can get stronger and bigger.

  • Bruno

    first of all people just need to learn how to read hahaha

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Do you guys know what skill is? Bradleys FT % and ability to do more then a dunk and baby hook immediately makes him more skilled. Not better or more effective, or anything like that.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    But whoever said that Kobe is the only person who gets killed for having great teammates while it’s all good for everyone else to have them, is spot on.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Kap…..you fail at basketball life. That’s cool though, because you make intelligent, yet false, arguments. Kobe is great. We all know this. But to try and discount Larry Bird as some pittance to Kobe’s shadow kind of makes me think your real name is Vanessa.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    You guys keep living in what if they replaced kobe with Tmac, lebron , wade. Well we don’t live in a what if world. We live in reality and in reality kobe has 5 rings, is top ten in scoring, lakers all time leading scorer, been in the game 15 years and counting. Where is Tmac, I doubt wade lasts 15 yrs, and when Lebron learns his fundamentals of bball and actually becomes a winner then crown him king. But once again we live in reality not a “what if” world.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    @nbk: You should be banned permanently for even discussing Shawn Bradley.

  • The D Train

    @Bryan’s 3:31 comment…the Pacific NW misses Durant. A lot.

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    @nbk; Well, there not gonna win a chip this year, that’s certain. They didn’t win a chip last year, we know that. And the year before, when it was “championship or bust mode, cause we have all the right pieces.” He IS in Miami now. Hmmph.

  • JTaylor21

    Kap you’re joking right Bird can’t hold kobe’s what???????? Wake me up from this deep sleep when kobe goes for 29/11/6/52/42/88 and wins 3 MVPs in a row. Come on MAN you can love kobe till your chest busts out like in that alien move but you can’t be talking reckless about a legend.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    I know Bird’s impact to the game and watch he did for the NBA in the 80′s and he white people start believing they could play bball but you cannot say confidently that he is a superior nba player to Kobe. 15 years of dominance is noteworthy…

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    @D Train: At least you guys have a WNBA Championship, Lauren Jackson and Sue Bird. OK, that’s not the same…

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    “29/11/6/52/42/88″-Steve Nash puts up similar numbers and has won 2 MVPs. Does that make him better than Kobe? Hell no…So come at me with a better argument.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    @JT21: I hope in 15 or 20 years when someone says something bad about Kobe Bryant you’ll consider him a “legend” and defend him like you do all the others…that you never actually saw play.

  • http://www.dimemag.com Royal

    JTaylor: You talk reckless about THE LEGEND Michael Jordan all the time so please don’t start that hypocrisy….

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Like I said earlier clevelands supporting cast was terrible yet LeBron led them to more wins then anyone else has the last 3 years and this season largely the dame team won’t even sniff the playoffs. If that doesn’t prove how effective LeBron is then your biased goggles are message with your perception. Please don’t morph this into me saying LeBron is the most effective thing since flu shots.

  • bashmo

    I honestly don’t know why Kobe wouldnt be number 1, other than his little knee injury. He is the most dangerous, deadly, and complete ball player on this list. I am a Cp3 and Dwight fan, however Kobe is on a different level. As a player, he can do everything on offense. He can and will post you up, he will hit from mid, he can shoot the three, he can handle the ball, pass, and is a all nba FIRST team defender. He is the reigning finals mvp for 2 straight seasons, and it seems like another may be on the way.

    Kobe really is the best Ball player in the game today.

  • The D Train

    @BC: That was low, man. So very low.

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    Oh Kap, that comment was sooo sketchy son…

  • The Philosopher

    Bird is better than Kobe.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Who dominated for 15 years, Kap?

  • James

    Kevin Durant has officially became the most overrated player in the league.

    ESPN is all over him, he’s the new poster boy.

  • bashmo

    You all must remember that Kobe is on a championship team, with an incredible supporting cast, and STILL able to put up these incredible numbers. He has one of the top bigmen in the game on his squad, and three other players averaging over double digits. This all spells the word CONSISTENCY and TALENT. Lebron has dominated on a poor cavs team his whole career. How he plays with Dwade and Bosh in the mix will determine if he is on the same level as Kobe…but for now, number 1 player in ball today is Mr.Bryant

  • MV

    @AT33
    You’re an idiot. Although you’re probably right that taking Shaq and Gasol out of LA would spell no rings for Kobe, think about some of the other past winners in history. For example, take Pippen out of Chicago and MJ doesn’t get 6 rings. Worthy and Kareem out of LA and Magic doesn’t win. McHale, Parish, and DJ out of Boston and Bird doesn’t win. Ginobli, the Admiral, and Parker off the Spurs and Timmy D is ringless. Not too mention the countless amazing role players all these guys had playing with them. It’s a team game, no one win a championship by themself. Everyone gets way too caught up in the one-player-does-it-all hype, there are 5 guys out there for a reason. PS. Lebron and the Cavs was embarrasingly swept when they went to the finals, he was a lonnnnng way off winning it by himself.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    @D Train: I admit, that was bad. I’m sorry. You guys got jerked up there.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    @Spaceship…Yea I know. I was trying to put an end to the Lebron/Kobe debate til tomorrow.
    @Eboy…Kobe but I know he didn’t actually dominate for the first 3 but its ok to round 12 to 15.

    I would like someone to make a valid argument to Bird being better than Kobe…with as bias aside I don’t thnk it is possible unless they start talking about FG% and rebounding. I’ve watched several games of Bird play and he looks no where as near as good as Kobe. It’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it.

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    Kobe lovers distort the truth to make him sound better than he is, Kobe haters distort the truth to make him sound worse than he is. Frustrating and enjoyable. Like coffee that’s too hot.

  • http://slamonline.com Kap

    Sorry about the white comment but for all you guys know I could be white myself…

  • IHaveADream

    To you LeBron lovers, you all mention how LeBron took his 07 team to the Finals by himself….another player by the name of Allen Iverson, don’t know if you’ve ever heard of him, he took a worse 2001 Philadelphia Sixers team to the Finals and took one game from the Lakers in LA almost single handedly. A Lakers team that was better than the 07 Spurs team. So does that make AI better than LeBron? I doubt that you all would say that. Just a thought.

  • JTaylor21

    @BCrawford I would if I’m around by then because I probably be in the hamptons in a hammock asking my chef what’s a sammwich. Anyways I would defend him just like I defended Bird when someone disrespects legends like that. Also I’ve never called anyone the GOAT so that’s actually respecting all the legends unlike all you guys that claim MJ’s the GOAT. @Kap when the hell has Nash ever grabbed 11rpg and scored 29 ppg? Stop this buffoonery, you’re making basketball look bad.

  • The Philosopher

    Kap;
    You should watch Bird more.
    You should watch more of Kobe for that matter, too.

  • http://scott.r.carter10@gmail.com Scott Carter

    is there any doubt who the top 2 will be??

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Larry Bird was “pretty fly for a white guy.” But he was no Kobe Bryant. But Kobe Bryant is no Larry Bird either. Can we kill this one before this comment section turns into complete and utter stupidity?

  • The D Train

    @BC: It stinks for sure, but as someone who who grew up in the Pac NW, my allegiances have always been to teams from the midwest for some reason. Bulls, Chiefs, St. Louis Cardinals. Maybe I just liked the color red. Regardless, losing the Sonics sucked, but we’ve still got crazy love for Durant. How could you not root for the kid? And as one who sits next-door to Portland, and just down the freeway from Seattle, the Oden-Durant draft was like a giant gift from the sports gods to our rainy little corner of the country. It’s too bad that Clay Bennett and Benjamin Button Oden’s horrible knees had to squash what looked like a nice 10-15 year run of top-notch basketball up here.

  • The Philosopher

    Co-sign Bryan Crawford.

  • Tom P

    @i have a dream: iversons team had the coach of the year (larry brown) sixth man: aaron mckie and defensive player of the year that year check your stats homie

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    @D Train: Brandon Roy and Kevin Durant would’ve been a problem for the NBA!

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    JTaylor; Not to pick on you… But that’s a favorite Wayne line of mines. It’s the other way around kid; He’s in the Hamptons asking “What the @#$% is a hammock,” the chef’s asking him, “What the @#$% is a sammwich.” But I digress, continue.

  • The D Train

    @BC: Indeed, man. Spilled milk, though, I guess. Ugh.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    JTaylor
    Phil took Jordan off Magic because he was getting lit up to the point where it was affecting his offense. Relieved of having to deal with Magic on the block and on the break, Mike would go on to dominate.
    So, while I agree with you that Kobe’s defense is vastly overrated (come on people jason kidd made all-defense like two years ago) I think you made a logic error there.

  • JTaylor21

    Spaceship, feel ya I haven’t listened to that legendary track in a long time and forgot the lines. @Ihaveadream, AI did his thang but his team was slightly more talented than 07 cavs who had Ira freaking Newboy, Larry Con-artist Hughes and Eric Waterboy Snow as starters. Hell a freaking 65 and over church league team could have beating those guys, BCrawford can vouch what I’m saying (I kidd I kidd).

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    @D Train: I don’t really blame the Portland front office. When you have a true, dominant big man on the board, you have to take him. Nobody could’ve predicted what happened though. Sometimes, you just guess incorrectly.

  • IHaveADream

    @Tom P
    I don’t need to “check my stats homie”. I watched the games. AI’s my favorite player of all time. I watched every game that team played. The talent gap was huge between AI and his teammates just like it was for LeBron. But AI got one game against Shaq and Kobe while LeBron got swept. So answer the question. Do people consider AI as being better in 2001 than LeBron was in 2007? No. Why? It proves my point. People’s personal feelings more often than not affect how they view these things especially the Kobe-LeBron subject.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Kap, this isn’t meant to be insulting or anything either, but you kind of killed your own argument when you said “I’ve watched several games of Bird play and he looks no where as near as good as Kobe”. Bro, that can only mean to me that you only have recent first-hand knowledge of the NBA and it’s history is just Youtube highlights and NBATV Classic Games. Don’t get me wrong, I watch that stuff too just to see if it’s sh*t I didn’t catch the first time around. Why? Because I’m an old f*ck. 40. I was a 10 year old when Magic and Bird came into the league…..I watched every game I could on CBS (did you know that CBS held that contract for years?)on Sunday afternoons and wherever else I could get to see them then. They were unreal. Like nothing I had seen before. When I was 14, Michael came into the league. I watched his entire career develop over my teen years into my 20′s. I watched three of the greatest basketball players develop over the course of my teen years into my young adulthood and saw firsthand just how Godlike they were to the sport. Never mind the end part of Doctor J’s career I saw, the destructive power of the late 80′s Pistons that was on full display, the heartbreak of Knicks fans that never could realize Patrick Ewings greatness and so on. Dude, I’ve watched Kobe from his beginnings. I’ve probably typed in comment form about 40 times how much I liked the kid when he first came to the league. I liked the shaved head and the light goatee, the wannabe gangsta swagga, all that. I felt for him when he missed those airballs against the Jazz early in his career. Sh*t, I was happy to see him win his first title with the Lakers too cause he had a great talent and mixed well with Shaq. But then dude got full of himself and turned me off to him. Maybe It was my loss, who knows? But what I do know is that for 30 years, I’ve been a first-hand witness to legendary NBA basketball and trust me, what Kobe has done, while spectacular, isn’t new or unprecedented. It’s wowing young cats like you, like Michael, Magic and Larry did to me way back in the day. I’ve long turned my head at the prospect of great players doing the unthinkable. It’s been done and done just as well and in certain cases (ie: Michael Jordan)it’s been done better than everyone else. I appreciate Kobe for what he is. I sometimes forget the cats I have these word battles with are sometimes 20 years or more my junior. That doesn’t make me any smarter, just a bit more informed.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Oh, on the Iverson issue.
    Larry Brown was coach of the year, but no other player on the team averaged 15 points during the season.
    Eric Snow had a fractured ankle he got in the eastern conference finals and Aaron Mckie fractured his ankle in Game One.
    Dikembe had dislocated fingers.
    Iverson carried that team, took a game from an LA team taht was undefeated in the playoffs, and was competitive in the first three games.
    Let’s just be clear on that.

  • JTaylor21

    @AllenP you’re right but PJax had him guard JWorthy until he got hurt but he wasn’t guarding AC Green who’s comparable to 08 rondo offensively. All I’m saying is that if MJ was on the 08 lakers, he would have being checking at least Ray Ray not hiding on rondo.

  • Tom P

    i love iverson too and he hit a crazy shot to win the game (one of my fav. moments!) but he still had a better team around him than the cavs in the finals

  • Ben Flook

    Jtaylor, you realise Eric Snow was a starter for both teams you mentioned?

  • IHaveADream

    @ JTaylor
    Z Ilgauskas, Drew Gooden, Larry Hughes, Eric Snow, Boobie Gibson against Mutombo, Tyrone Hill, an injured George Lynch, Jumaine Jones, Aaron McKie, a younger but still slow Eric Snow…oh yeah, the Cavs were so much more talented than that Sixers team.

  • Ben Flook

    Hiding on Rondo? He’s one of the best PGs in the game. Its not like he’s Eric Snow ( no disrespect, purely for arguments sake)

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Considering that Rondo was “abusing” people in ’08, I wouldn’t necessarily say that Kobe was “hiding” by guarding Rondo.

  • http://thephotoriot.com davidR

    bcrawford, i was late to your question in wade’s thread regarding stack jack. and i know it has nothing to do with durant, but do you agree that stack should’ve at least taken gilbert’s spot? see my comment @ 12:22pm

  • JTaylor21

    I hope that people do know that older doesn’t necessarily mean better. This is not an 1770 french wine we’re talking about this is basketball skills and the human body which gets worse as we get older. ESnow was an average young player with the sixers but with the cavs he was just old and wack. You wouldn’t want your brick laying pops on your team would ya??

  • The D Train

    @BC: Revisionist history is fun, right? I 100% agree with you on the Oden pick. Trust me, I lived here at the time, and there was zero chance of them taking Durant. And there was nary a complaint from the anywhere that I can remember. The few folks that were promoting Durant over Oden can definitely pat themselves on the back now, but I loathe the 20-20 hindsight that causes people to bash Pritchard and the Blazers for taking the guy that everyone was saying they should take. Obviously Portland made the wrong choice, but if we are to believe what we read, so would have most sports writers and fans, not to mention other GM’s.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Kap, read my 4:11 comment to answer your earlier question.

  • JTaylor21

    Come on people I’m talking about a viable offensive threat which 08 Rondo wasn’t. Are you guys telling me that rondo was just as important an offensive weapon as Ray Ray and PP on that team? NAH I think not. What’s your excuse for why Kobe wasn’t guarding Ray Ray or PP.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    JTaylor Kobe was on Rondo so he could play “safety” and double team. He was not hidden, he was being used as a team defensive player, rather then wasting Derek Fisher all-together on Rondo.

  • wtf

    i just wanna know how durant is 3 and melo 6 when their stats and play are damn near the same. durant number 3 after 1 good season? melo>durant wade>durant

  • The D Train

    @Eboy’s 4:11 comment: That, man, is some seriously good stuff. Perspective. All of us from different places, at different ages, experiencing similar moments in different way, and finally forming our different opinions. When you were talking about Kobe’s rise seeming like it was the first of it’s kind, I couldn’t help but think of Dr. J fans, and how they probably felt the same way about us young Jordan fans who thought he invented the game. Kudos man…that post is something everyone on these boards should keep in mind when we’re slinging arrows at each other.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    @davidR: Yeah, I saw it and I’ll agree that if were to get in, it would have to be somewhere 45-50. Replacing Gil (who hasn’t played in 3 years) at #50, I won’t necessarily disagree with you on that. And as someone with a vote and who was privy to the process, Stephen Jackson did get a lot of consideration, just not enough to crack the list unfortunately.

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    Rondo, one of the best pg’s in the game?! Mmmmm, that’s that weird talk. Let me re-iterate. (Clearing throat)… If Rondo would have been drafted by Golden State, he’d be irrelevant (bow’s, waits for applause).

  • wtf

    and also, melos post was all about what he so called, “couldnt do” and this post doesnt really tell much about durants game. who approves these things. both poorly writen

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    @JT21: Now Rondo wans’t “a viable offensive threat” in ’08? You of the pro “Rondo abused Derrick Rose because he averaged a triple-double” argument? Man, you really need to be more cognizant of what you say on here. Rondo KILLED in ’08, you said that. Now he wasn’t a factor on offense and Kobe was hiding by guarding him? Dude, you flip-flop more than a fish out of water, that’s why you get called out so much. You’re very inconsistent.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I wouldn’t go as far as to say he would be irrelevant. He just wouldn’t be who he is. He is though, the best defensive PG in the NBA, and one of the top 5 players in the League at controlling pace. Regardless of where he got drafted, that would have come out eventually.

  • Ben Flook

    If he was drafted by Golden State, he wasn’t and he’s currently one of the best PG’s in the game. Jtaylor your right he wasnt as much of a threat in 08, but i still wouldnt consider it hiding. BTW im not trying to defend Kobe, more giving credit to Rondo.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Actually, I retract and apologize for everything in my last comment except the part about JTaylor21 being inconsistent. Got my year’s mixed up.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    OK, I’m out. And peace to my dude JT21 who has his moments but for the most part, is completely all over the place — and at times, downright disrespectful — with his comments.

  • JTaylor21

    Yes, Rondo was not a viable offensive threat in 08, he wasn’t when he abused Rose and he’s still not today. You do know that Rondo abused him in every other aspect of the game except scoring right? Rondo abused him on the boards, passing like JKidd 2.0 and had more thefts than winona ryder. Just because you’re still in your Chi-town state of mind where only scoring equals abusing doesn’t mean everyone sees it that way. You guys must be playing a joke on my senses and I’m half-expecting Ashton Kutcher to hop out with a film crew at any moment.

  • http://www.twitter.com/TheDiesel Anton

    KD should be #1 on the list…

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    Uhhh no he’s not. He was certainly exposed in the FIBA tryouts, where he had a different offensive system to control (his passing options weren’t as good or better? Right.) and was repeatedly stumped by the Euro’s zone defense. A good pg yes, a top NBA pg, no. Chalmers may kill this year, may he not?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    So now a non-threat on offense puts up 9.6 assists a game. lol smh bryan’s wrong about you, you are consistently inconsistent.

  • Ben Flook

    Your comparing Mario Chalmers to Rajon Rondo? Rondo averaged a triple double over a 7 game series. Chalmers has been locked in a starting pg battle with Carlos Arroyo, Rafer Alston briefly, and correct me if im wrong Eboy but at 1 point Chris Quinn?

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    BS on rondo and Kobe and I’m shocked some of y’all are arguing any different.
    Rondo was NOWHERE near the offensive player he is now in 2008. He lacked confidence in his game, and Kobe basically rested on him and caused problems in the passing lanes. And Rondo didn’t know how to make him pay.
    But, Jordan regularly rested on weaker players, to say anything different is a rewriting of history. Phil Jackson ain’t stupid, Michael often guarded the weakest perimiter player on the other team so he wouldn’t have to kill himself on defense and see his offense suffer.
    How else do you explain him guarding Nate McMillan and Hersey Hawkins instead of Gary Payton, or Russell instead of Stockton or Hornacek. Or Marjele instead of KJ or richard Dumas. That was calculated to save Jordan’s energy.

  • Tom P

    wassup wit the lovefest?? ill never respect kobe’s game until he admits to the world that he bit every aspect of MJ’s game from the finger wagging to the tongue to mannerisms running up and down the court and basically he just saw the gatorade commercial “like mike” and used that as the soundtrack to his life

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    @JT21: I’m always in my Chi-Town state of mind. You ain’t know? And yes getting buckets dropped on your head at a high rate “still” constitutes as the only form of basketball abuse in all 50 states, Canada, South America, all 3rd World countries, and at least 6 European nations. Who gives a ish about rebounds and assists? OK, I’m done… Y’all be cool.

  • T-Money

    BC: Actually that’s partially true, Rondo is usually not very effective vs Orlando and LAL. He bombed during the two NBA Finals vs LAL. That doesn’t prevent him from killing it vs CHI, CLE, MIA, etc.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Cosign everything allen just said. Except Jordan did guard Hornacek (for a few games atleast, and a good portion of minutes in the others), and Majerle was a better offensive player then Dumas.

  • JTaylor21

    nbk, when BCrawford talks about someone being an “offensive” threat he’s talking strictly about ones ability to put the ball in the hoop on a regular basis. Has any one of those things ever described Rondo the player? Come on son, quit with the act don’t make me get on you like EdMurphy got on Chappelle.

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    Mr. Flook; if your going to disagree with me, I respectfully ask that you at least counter one of my points made concerning Rondo. You avoided most if not all of them to speak about Chalmers, who will have the freedom to pee one of the Miami Heat’s camera men in the middle of a game to no one’s notice if he’d like this year… Much like the freedom Rondo had years before. Good yes. Top NBA, hell no.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I thought BCrawford said that ABUSE in the result of scoring….he didn’t say that offensive threats only score. He was talking about saying a guy got abused. You don’t go up to the guy that guarded Scott Skiles during his 30 assist game and say he abused you, you tell it to the whole team, but Skiles was still the most potent offensive threat.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    @JT21: You don’t want it. You’re better off getting at these cats that are at your neck on the daily. For once I’d like to see an intelligent argument from you that doesn’t involve name-calling and put downs when you get backed into a corner or when people blow holes straight through what it is that you’re saying. Start there, then gradually work your way up to me.

  • http://Slamonline.com Kap

    @Eboy
    I gotta admit that was very classy and the most well stated, truthful, and best comment I’ve read on here. You have earned today’s W and I take the L like a man. BTW…I’m 22 so yea Kobe is to me what Magic was to ur generation.

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the Balla

    co-sign BC!!! I would like to see that as well!!

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the Balla

    and co sign KAP, kind of. I remember sitting 6 inches away from the TV watching Jordan and Pippen when I was 8 and 9 years old. I loved Jordan, he was password for everything when I was a kid, I had every poster (even stole some from my library in school). But Kobe has taken basketball and made me love it the same way Jordan kid when I was a kid! I love this sport because of both of them. To me, Jordan and Kobe are hand in hand, best basketball players to ever pick up a ball. I though Bron had the chance too, until he left for the heat. BUT, I will say that if he wins 4 ships with the heat and than leaves and gets a couple more. Mj, Kobe, and Bron will be the best players to ever pick up the basketball. I really wish I could say Wade, but I think injuries and coming into the league late hurts him!

  • Ben Flook

    Rondo is an all star, Chalmers may not even be a starting PG in this L. He may not be suited to FIBA ball but he has consistently put up big numbers in the postseason, and he absolutely torched Cleveland this year. If you don’t think he’s on of the Ls best PGs that’s obvious personal bias on your part.

  • http://staplesdesign.com Spaceship Jay

    Sorry kid, no bias… I don’t know him to be biased against him. Trade him for Baron Davis. Watch his dominance flourish.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Kevin durant put on 15 pounds of muscle…… .. Oh wait, theres a decimal in there, 1.5 lbs of muscle.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    THE NBA ON SLAMONLINE.COM – WHERE WORKING YOUR WAY UP TO BRYAN CRAWFORD HAPPENS…
    _____________________________________________________

  • max

    I LIKE TURTLES

  • max

    turtles have now been mentioned as often as Durant in this comment section…

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Prolly because Durant absolutely dominated Carmelo Anthony’s page like it was the regular season. His page is like the playoffs, he just shows up for a bit, but he’s in the back of everyone’s mind.

  • The Philosopher

    LOL @Tarzan Cooper.
    And, I was the first one to embrace the dude JTaylor21. One of my guys.
    So, you know I’m going to gloat on my “I will not judge you” mantra.
    Shout out @everybody.
    Cannot wait for tommorrow.
    All hell is going to break loose.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    Internet beef, stupid. Beef in a comment section, just plain wack.

  • http://staplesdesign.com Spaceship Jay

    Actually Ben, its similar to the Ariza debacle; God in Heaven forbid he believe his own hype, and sail off to make another team a “chip contender”… Only to find himself in the same position as… Well… Ariza. Rondo’s a MAGNIFICENT piece to the Celtics. But a piece nonetheless.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    @Philo: You mean that’s not what happened today? Oh boy…

  • http://google c_cantrell

    good place for him.. dude is getting that mvp trophy for sure

  • The Philosopher

    Bryan Crawford:
    Tommorrow should be more chaotic, no?
    Eboy’s comment @4:11 p.m. is a gem.
    That is what he does.

  • http://slamonline.com Bryan Crawford

    @Philo: It absolutely was. I’ll have to commend him for it and actually thank him tomorrow. I certainly need to remind myself of the same thing.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Since everyone got all the kobe/bron ish outta the way today. How bout tmrw we play battleship in the comments section of kobes no2 post? Itll be fun to switch things up.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com Moose

    Eboy’s 4:11 comment makes me feel young, stupid and ignorant.
    But in a good way.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Negetivekreep

    Should be a great write up tommorow, whomever it may be. Im glad it’l be “the Puppets” at 1 & 2, true to life. Hate em’ or love em’ we are all blessed to have these guys slugging it out for NBA supremacy again in less than a week. One.

  • ai come back

    dude itl be so gay i see open up to this page nd see lebron NO.2………

  • Carlos PR

    acording the most idiots these days, Kevin Durant is God from heaven in basketball, get REAL. He DOESNOT MEASURE UP TO LEBRON WADE AND KOBE YET, he has NO RINGS, ONLY GONE TO THE PLAYOFFS ONCE AND HAS NO PLAYOFF SUCESS. HE IS GREAT BUT HE HAS NOT ACCOMPLISHED ANYTHING THOSE OTHER PLAYERS HAVE AND IT IS ABSURBED TO SAY HE IS BETTER THAN WADE WHEN HE HAS DONE NOTHING COMPARED TO HIM. HE IS SO HYPED JUST FOR BEING A MEDIA DARLING AND WINNING AN INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION WHICH SUCKS.

  • clayton

    this did nothing to explain why he should be ranked ahead of d wade

  • BBaller

    @Eboy 4:11, how right you are,nothing beats watching it live and living in the moment, no amount of NBA.com stats can replace or emulate that feeling.
    In Australia we had no where near the same coverage of basketball, but at the age of 11 i would stay up until 3am to watch the Bulls v Blazers on a TV with blurry reception, no internet then of course, well for me anyway.Sure It doesn’t make you smarter but i feel you on being more informed if you ‘lived it’ back then.
    The ‘Abuse’ word reference is the worst printed on this site all offseason.

  • Jack george

    First off let me start by saying im black and im just wondering why is Durants hair ALWAYS nappy? im mean dam use a brush wit some aportin wave homey!!

  • http://bulls.com Harry Twatter

    LOL @ Jack but very true “First off let me start by saying im black and im just wondering why is Durants hair ALWAYS nappy? im mean dam use a brush wit some aportin wave homey!!”

  • Michael Whyte

    38 11 11

  • doyouwantmore

    The word “Lebron” appears in this write-up more times than the word “Kevin”.

    Just saying.

  • BBaller

    Kevin should of been discussed yesterday at Position 4.Just saying.

  • Michael Whyte

    my bad. one too many pints. misread.

  • http://www.slamonline.com James the Balla

    Actually, Kobe was mentioned 100 times, bron 100 times and kevin 98 times.

  • JTaylor21

    BCrawford, I wasn’t getting at ya, I was just throwing a joke at nbk. After the BS you and I had about a month ago, I wish to never go back there again. You seem like a very cool and knowledge chap who I can learn a lot from and you obviously write for the BEST mag. in the world. So props and a tip of the hat from me to you, keep doing your thang.

  • http://slamonline.com Brad Long

    If the internets had been invented yet (or electricity for that matter) when Eboy was a kid he would’ve be telling us about how he watch some wicked vid of Bob Petit last night and Kobe is no Bob Petit. Don’t let the fact that Eboy is older than Betty White sway you from your opinions.

  • IHaveADream

    The Heat were missing their closer tonight. And someone tell Mario Chalmers to just swing the ball when he catches it.

  • IHaveADream

    Also, about KD’s hair, Russell Westbrook said in an ESPN the Mag interview last year that he doesn’t own a brush lol

  • http://www.ebay.com Tariq

    Brad,
    Eboy is a “perennial young old observerant sensemaker” which, in Eboy/nbk-speak, means that he would have been able to generate arguments that made sense all the time (or some of the time?) if he played in the East.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    You two f$cking love me!

  • Ben Flook

    Jay i see what you mean, but if Rondo was on the Clippers i would expect him to put up huge numbers. Also it is similar to the Ariza situation except Rondo is an all star (probably for years to come) whereas im guessing Ariza will never be one. Same situation but different skill levels for the two guys IMO.

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    GO BACK TO BED GRAMPA!!!!!!!! YOU GOT THE DOCTORS APPOINTMENT IN THE MORNING…… THEN OLD COUNTRY BUFFET, AFTER THAT MATLOCK…… BED BEFORE 6….. YOU GOT SOME WERTHERS ORIGINALS BIICH???

  • http://www.need4sheed.com Tarzan Cooper

    Garnett once tried to bet a referee a cheeseburger that he didn’t commit a foul the referee had accused him of.

  • Malc D

    My top ten would be:
    1 LeBron James
    2 Kobe Bryant
    3 Dwayne Wade
    4 Kevin Durant(will fluctuate throughout the year between top 2 and 4)
    5 Carmelo Anthony
    6 Dwight Howard
    7 Chris Paul
    8 Brandon Roy
    9 Dirk Nowiztki
    10 Deron Williams

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    Puuuh, so glad we got that outta the way early (The Kobelebronisawfulgrandfantasticyousuckasmuchasbothofthe discussions i’ve come to hate whenever one of the two nba alpha dawgs is the topic on Slamonline).
    Oh wait, this was a Kevin Durant piece? 400+ comments and it was the usual Mambiatch/LBJ bla? God help us all when No. 2 is revealed later today.

  • Krisjanis

    Saying that Lebrick is better than Kobe means saying racism rules. clowns!

  • Mia

    When is #2 coming out.

  • Anthony

    When is #2 coming out so we can start the Kobe/Lebron war.
    Im at work and im doing nothing but press F5 here to see who is #2.

  • http://slamonline.com Kieran

    How can people expect their opinions to be taken seriously when they start their posts with “Lechoke” or “Lebrick” or some stupid name for Kobe.
    Lebron is going to be 1 and Kobe is 2, they are both incredible talents. Just enjoy them.

  • Michael Whyte

    Well said Kieran.

  • chazz michael michaels

    lololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololoolololololoololololololololoolololololololololololololololololololololol

  • bill breedley

    how can a logical mind even consider lebron to be top 2 in the league. stop believing the nike and espn hype. the boy is nothing more than a sidekick. which great player in his prime though he needed another great player also in his prime to win a chip? answer is none. great players do not piggyback and become sidekicks of superstars. magic’s sidekick was an ancient kareem. bird’s number 2 was a sixth man. now don’t go saying pippen was a supestar. that was proven to not be the case in the uber stacked blazers team and a respectable bulls team after jordan left the first time. kobe’s second batch of rings was with a “soft spaniard” who is only getting the accolades from ESPN just to downplay kobe’s chips without shaq.

    lebron is a sidekick. if kobe or KD is not number 1, then at least give it to DWade. the pompous sidekick has yet to win anything on his own and you insist on making him number one in this rankings? way to go Slam… sad

  • BRAVO

    THIS IS A GOOD WRITE UP! KEVIN DURANT IS GONNA RUN SHIT SOON!
    BUT IN THE MEAN TIMES….

    NUMBER 1 IS KING KOBE BRYANT !!!!!

  • G-Regg

    WHERE IS #2?!?!? I can’t take this anymore!!!

  • Michael Whyte

    bill breedley you’re a hater. get the f*ck outta here.

  • Noel

    Attn slamonliners
    the top 2 will be announced in a one hour special posted on SlamTV at 8 pm ET

  • Pugz

    @AT33 youre the most ignorant person ive ever seen. please get offthis site…also,get off lebron’s nuts

  • marc

    lmaooo @noel

  • Miamijoker

    The longest comment board ever

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    I’ve decided to take my talents to Dime magazine.

  • http://slamonline.com/ Ryne Nelson

    No. 1 and 2 tomorrow (Saturday), people!

  • greatnesspersonified

    nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo beeen hitting refresh like a mfer for the past 4 hours.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    What for? Don’t you guys get 500% more traffic on weekdays? that sucks

  • http://slamonline.com/ Ryne Nelson

    ^^ Yes, weekend traffic’s not as high. But we thought we’d extend the cliff-hanger by announcing the DRose cover today.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    understandable thanks for clarifying.

  • G-Regg

    Saturday?!?!? Argghhhh!!

    Also, LOL @Spaceship Jay.

  • http://Www.slamonline.com Negative kreep

    Spaceship: lol.

  • greatnesspersonified

    what time tmr would you know by any chance? mans got employment at 10am.

  • Ben

    I like Kevin Durant and all but come on. He’s a more athletic shorter Dirk. Better defender, but a 6’10 jumpshooter. Artest held him to what, 35% shooting in the playoffs last year? When has Kobe or LeBron ever shot 35% for a whole series. And he’s not quite there as a playmaker yet. He’s averaged 2.8 assists for the last 2 seasons. Everyone says Kobe’s so selfish yet he’s around 5 for his career and should’ve had avg’d 1 more last season but the Lakers’ outside shot completely disappeared. Hell, the season where Kobe shot 27 times a game he still dished out 4.5 assists a game. Durant will get there but he’s not there yet. He’s around 6-7 for me at best.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Pardeep

    Wow SLAM totally gave away the top 2 spots, 2. Kobe, 1. LeBron

  • http://counterkicks.com Q

    guess they’re slacking on the last two taking a day off on friday or what?!

  • Michael Whyte

    its saturday. come on now.

  • Hum

    Durant is as big of an ass as they come

  • BALLER 4 LIFE

    ….great players do not piggyback and become sidekicks of superstars. magic’s sidekick was an ancient kareem.

    Calm down Billy and get the facts- Kareem was league MVP the year Magic came to the Lakers 79-80. And was the Finals MVP in 84-85 5 years later when they won it again. How’s that for Ancient!!-

    ..now don’t go saying pippen was a supestar-(sic)

    And Scottie Pip is Top 50 and 1st ballot HOF.

    Listen I understand you like Kobe but may want to get the facts.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/abdulka01.html

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  • Da

    WOW…. Durant is not better than Dwill or Paul.
    He cant defend. he cant pass. he hardly rebounds for someone his size and his the “3rd” best player in the NBA. Dwill scores,passes,and defends.

  • kk

    Wade -> Durant

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