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Sunday, October 9th, 2011 at 11:00 am  |  174 responses

Top 50: Steve Nash, no. 20

The definitive ranking of the NBA’s best players.

by Ben York / @bjyork

I pride myself on being ignorant (and by ‘ignorant’ I mean ‘apathetic’) in many facets of life, but after nearly 30 years on this planet there are three things I’m downright sure of:

1. Human beings need food, water and shelter to survive.
2. The Earth is round. Trust me; I’ve seen pictures.
3. When you mention the name Steve Nash, it has to be followed by a conjunction (I.e. ‘but’) or we’ll all die.

I’m 100 percent convinced of this.

And since I’m not ready to die yet…

Steve Nash has phenomenal vision offensively, BUT he’s not a good defensive player.

In related news, the sky is blue and grass is green.

The great thing about Nash is that he has never pretended to be someone different. He isn’t like a box of chocolates; with Nash, you always know what you’re going to get. He’ll help your team score a ton of points but he can be a liability on the defensive end of the floor. This isn’t anything new, mind you; it has obviously been his Achilles heel (for lack of a better term) over the course of his career.

The question then becomes: Is it (still) worth it? Is it worth sacrificing comprehensive defensive schemes to win a lot of games in the regular season? Based on what he’s been able to do with Phoenix Suns teams since 2004 that have featured an abundance of talent as well as squads with mediocre talent (at best), I think the answer is, unequivocally, yes.

Why? Simple—because in this case, there isn’t an equal and opposite reaction. Nash’s offensive prowess and leadership continue to FAR outweigh his defensive inefficiencies.

Steve Nash makes others infinitely better, BUT he’s the beneficiary of an up-tempo system.

Nash is the BASF of the NBA; he doesn’t make the product, he makes the product better. Isn’t that what you want in a point guard? We can delve into this chicken and egg debate (and many have over the years) but if you’re honest with yourself, there isn’t one definitive answer. More clearly, one isn’t contingent on the other.

Any point guard worth their salt can run an up-tempo system. Some (like Nash) simply run it better than others.

Does the system help make Nash more effective? Absolutely. Conversely, does Nash make the system more effective? No doubt about it.

To this day, that still holds true.

Steve Nash is one of the best point guards in NBA history, BUT he’s never won a ‘chip.

Unless something drastic changes, in all likelihood, Nash will never win an NBA Championship. Based on the Suns’ salary cap situation in the next 37 five years, hope isn’t exactly knocking on the door.

Adam Morrison has two titles. Nash has zero. I don’t have anything against Adam Morrison but that reality physically hurts me.

Should this affect Nash’s legacy? Should he even have a legacy? Knowing Nash, he wouldn’t care either way but I’d argue that he should. After all, he is a two-time MVP recipient and has managed to make the point guard a vastly more relevant position in the coming decade.

With Nash, every time he and the Suns have generated sustainable momentum and began to build a team that could feasibly compete for a championship, something dramatic changes. (Don’t call it rebuilding!) Joe Johnson signs elsewhere. Shawn Marion is traded. Amar’e Stoudemire was lowballed.

But Nash doesn’t want you to feel sorry for him and neither do I. One could make an argument that the Suns haven’t caught a break in the Nash era but he’ll be the first to tell you that maybe they just weren’t good enough.

***

Steve Nash is 37 years old and has the potential, at the very least, of being among the league-leaders in assists for the next several years. That alone solidifies him as a top-20 player. The fact that he could help the Suns finish remotely close to .500 last season is nothing short of remarkable.

Ultimately, Nash’s No. 20 ranking means that, in a general sense, 19 players in the NBA are currently better/more valuable. I’m OK with that. In fact, when I submitted my rankings I had Nash much lower on my list. Not long ago, there was a time when Nash was undeniably the best (and most important) point guard in the game. But as the NBA evolves and the Roses and Pauls continue to make a stirring impact on their teams and the League, the balance of power has quickly shifted.

Even so, the dude managed to lead the League in assists again last season without Amar’e Stoudemire. Perhaps more compelling, he also led the Suns in scoring by the end of the year.

If you ask me, that’s pretty damn impressive.

SLAMonline Top 50 Players 2011
Rank Player Team Position Pos. Rank
50 Luol Deng Bulls SF 8
49 Andrew Bogut Bucks C 7
48 Ray Allen Celtics SG 9
47 Marc Gasol Grizzlies C 6
46 David West Hornets PF 15
45 Kevin Martin Rockets SG 8
44 Andrew Bynum Lakers C 5
43 Brandon Jennings Bucks PG 11
42 Lamar Odom Lakers PF 14
41 Gerald Wallace Blazers SF 7
40 Brook Lopez Nets C 4
39 Joakim Noah Bulls C 3
38 Carlos Boozer Bulls PF 13
37 Kevin Garnett Celtics PF 12
36 Eric Gordon Clippers SG 7
35 Tony Parker Spurs PG 10
34 Andre Iguodala 76ers SG 6
33 Al Jefferson Jazz PF 11
32 Al Horford Hawks C 2
31 Stephen Curry Warriors PG 9
30 Tim Duncan Spurs PF 10
29 Josh Smith Hawks PF 9
28 Manu Ginobili Spurs SG 5
27 Tyreke Evans Kings PG 8
26 Rudy Gay Grizzlies SF 6
25 John Wall Wizards PG 7
24 Danny Granger Pacers SF 5
23 Monta Ellis Warriors SG 4
22 Joe Johnson Hawks SG 3
21 Paul Pierce Celtics SF 4
20 Steve Nash Suns PG 6

Notes
• Rankings are based solely on projected ’11-12 performance.
• Contributors to this list include: Maurice Bobb, Shannon Booher, David Cassilo, Bryan Crawford, Sandy Dover, Adam Figman, Jon Jaques, Eldon Khorshidi, Ryne Nelson, Doobie Okon, Ben Osborne, Quinn Peterson, Dave Schnur, Abe Schwadron, Dan Shapiro, Irv Soonachan, Todd Spehr, Tzvi Twersky, Yaron Weitzman, DeMarco Williams and Ben York.
• Want more of the SLAMonline Top 50? Check out the archive.

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  • Andre Pruitt

    Pretty decent position for Mr. Nash

  • http://Zogs.ca Zogs

    This is well deserved considering how age has NOT been much of a downside to his game
    will be reliable for 14 4 and 10

  • http://Zogs.ca Zogs

    Also as much as I disagree for players to switch teams just to bandwagon and win a chip, in Steves case I honestly think he could blend with any team and actually be a factor ( as opposed to just being their like guys like shaq )

  • http://www.slamonline.com spit hot fiyah

    it’s hard for me to think he willl be a top 20 player this year, but he has surprised many times before, do it again Steve.

  • http://itsahardwoodlife.blogspot.com omphalos

    This is a good spot for Nash, glad he’s not rated above Rondo, that would’ve ticked me off. Who knows, VC might just have a Suns-like recouperation, except- oh wait- he hasn’t been able to train with the Suns staff in the off-season, another reason the lockout sucks; denying Phoenix players the fountain of youth.

  • Shem

    Shame, there’s a difference between LeBron changing teams to win a chip and Nash changing teams to win a chip. LeBron is 26 while Nash is 37. Nash has been getting disappointed in the playoffs much longer then LeBron has with a team clearly unwilling to bring in guys to get them over the hump. The Cavs have at least showed that they’re willing to spend to win. It’s fairly obvious the Suns organization isn’t willing to spend and the minute Nash retires that team is doomed. Good ranking for Nash, not going to lie I don’t think Russell Westbrook is better then a few players that have already been mentioned. At this point I’d take him over Nash but would I take him over Joe Johnson or Monta? No way..

  • kj

    Imagine if Hickson was traded to Phoenix. Nash would have made him a 20-8 guy.

  • kj

    My guess for the next 19 players (in no order)
    PG(5):Rose,Rondo,Dwill,CP3 and Westbrook
    SG(2):Kobe and Wade
    SF(3): Lebron, KD and Melo
    PF(8): Dirk,Amare,Pau,Bosh,Blake,Lamarcus A.,Z-Bo and Love
    C: DHoward

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Westbrook is better than Monta and I’m not even going to waste my time on JJ. Don’t let unwarranted criticism from the media fool you, the guy is a beast. The thunder were in every game vs the World Champs despite starting Thabo/Perkins (terrible offensive players). Westbrook has as much to do with OKC’s recent success as KD.

  • kj

    IMO, everyone from 28-20 except for Monta and Wall are better than Bosh.

  • Rainman

    u knocked Nash out the top 10 from last year? seriously?

    THis guy is still at least top 15, he had his usual MVP type numbers b4 getting nagging injuries, come on guys!

  • Rainman

    but tehn again, this is a list for the coming year, we’ll see how much age has NOT gottent o him again, but top 20…im not mad at that i guess

  • ripslam

    Over Paul Pierce? Not feeling this spot.

  • Rainman

    im a bit upset ROndo is gonna be ranked ahead of him…

    Nash> Rondo to me. Rondo said he can average 20 assits? Nash took the assist title from him. Put Nash in a team with Garnette, Pierce, Allen, Green, JO,? 15 + assists for the season.

    Best Passer in the LEague. BY FAR.

  • MUBWAR

    kj with a stupid comment of the day.

  • http://itsahardwoodlife.blogspot.com omphalos

    The assist title is all well and good, but Rondo plays in a slower-paced offense, and he is anything but a defensive liability, often making game-changing plays on that end. Rondo is better than Nash at this point, sorry Rainman.

  • B

    As Nash is a defensive liability then rondo is an offensive liability…

  • Heals

    Rainman I hear ya (I go back and forth as to whether or not he is the best Celtic at times), but gotta side with omphalos on that match-up. Nash’s defense would negate his offensive impact in Beantown. Rainman I think you’re better off using Nash’s jumper in that argument than his passing skills. The difference in their passing ability is miniscule compared to their jumpers, but Rondo’s defense puts him over the top…

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Damn y’all, it’s the 100th day of the lockout :(

  • Heals

    Sharp Left-turn: I might in the minority here, but I get the feeling KLove is going to help stir some drinks if he doesn’t get listed soon. Top 20 – I don’t think so, but nonetheless I’ll save my ammo for when it matters…

  • MUBWAR

    any news that the players will accept the 50 50 cut of BRI that is schedule for today? Or are we gonna miss the first 2 weeks of the season?

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    Top-10 all-time point guard.
    Go ahead, start the debate. I’ll be here.

  • Mick

    Should higher ;,still the best passer and shooter in the league

  • Rainman

    i dont know, i guess its jsut me, i am a Nash stan by admission.

    But hey, as much of a defensive liability Nash is, i’d Say Rondo is an offensive liability based sheerly on his inability and unwillingness to shoot the damn ball.

    Again, imo, give me Nash.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    There’s no debate. He’s some where around 9 or 10.

  • Heals

    Naw Rainman you’re not alone, it’s a close call. I do agree that Nash would fit more seamlessly on more teams than Rajon, but when he gets that right fit I think his ceiling is higher…

  • http://nba.com GP23

    Steve Nash is a Top-10 all-time point guard without question…. He is also better than Rondo overall (yeah I said it). I just think Nash should go to a title contender… he deserves a ring more than anyone in the league. If he was at the Heat, or the Lakers, he may get a chance for winning a chip.

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    Jtaylor: I’m disappointed in you. In baseless, totally opinionated and in no way factual arguments over where to arbitrarily rank players, I was hoping you’d throw in a haymaker.

  • http://www.slamonline.com house

    cosign@Jukai

  • http://slamonline.com The Philosopher

    Shout out @Ben York.
    Underrated.

  • http://slamonline.com The Philosopher

    @My guy, Jukai:
    For what it is worth, shots fired (shout out @Enigmatic) in response to you on the other thread.

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    LOL Philo. In answer to your question to me in the other thread, I didn’t come at you right away because I have absolutely no idea about the status of black and white players in Europe. I assume Darksaber, who is black and has played in Europe, does though.

  • http://Slamonline.coM nbk

    Good work Ben now hopefully they end the lockout today.

  • http://Slamonline.com Caboose

    I see no problem with that Jukai. In no particular order, best point guards: Magic, Stockton, Zeke, Jerry, Big O, Kevin Johnson, Maravich, Nash, Clyde, Cousy. With Kidd, Payton, CP3, and Mo Cheeks on the outskirts.

  • http://slamonline.com The Philosopher

    So, your assumption, based on ‘Saber’s comment, had you coming at me in a cowardly manner?
    So, because of Darksaber’s stated experience, you now have a better idea of the status of Black and White players over there?
    Okay.
    Thanks.

  • http://www.nba.com/celtics lights out

    i have no problem with nash being in or near the top 10, but i do have a real problem with him being put ahead of Kidd and Payton, given Kidd’s versatility and Payton’s defensive prowess. also, i like KJ, but to me, he should not even be in the same discussion as these future HOF’ers.

  • Shem

    @JTaylor21 I respect Westbrook’s game and have loved him ever since he was drafted. Can you really say he’s more valuable to OKC then Nash is to PHX though?

  • http://Slamonline.coM nbk

    KJ is rightfully in the discussion

  • http://slamonline.com The Philosopher

    Co-sign nbk @3:50p.m.

  • http://nba.com GP23

    is Pistol Pete Maravich in the discussion for the greatest point guards?….. you could say he is an honourable mention, right?

  • NJ4Life

    I’d still take Kidd over Nash, both now, and in their primes.

  • http://Slamonline.coM nbk

    WhOse more valuable to their team does not dictate who is better. If that were the case Chris Paul, Dwight, & Rose would be the best players in the league and it wouldnt even be a discussion. And nash would be top 7.

  • http://slamonline.com The Philosopher

    GP23:
    He’s better than Chauncey Billups.
    Someone answer me this;
    Is Chauncey Billups a top 15 all time point guard?

  • http://Slamonline.coM nbk

    Not imo

  • http://slamonline.com The Philosopher

    The Definitive Ranking Of The Top 10 Point Guards In NBA History (in order)
    _________________________________________________________________
    1. Earvin
    2. Lord Thomas III
    3. Oscar Robertson
    4. Houston Stockton of Spokane, Washington
    5. Robert Cousy
    6. Jason Kidd
    7. Nate Archibald
    8. Gary Payton
    9. Walt Frazier
    10. Steve Nash
    Everything is debatable except Earvin’s place…

  • http://slamonline.com the nerve

    philo u ass man! I c whachu doin.

  • http://slamonline.com the nerve

    jus beat my case on friday yo! nickas is chillin. pop 1 4 yer boi

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I’m in the minority on this, but oh well…
    To me, Nash is on the outside looking in on the top 10 PGs of all time.
    In addition to those listed, by Philo, I’d probably take Calvin Murphy, Mo Cheeks, Alvin Robertson, Norm Nixon and Lenny Wilkins over dude.
    So to me he’s in the 15-20 range.
    Nash is an amazing, all-time great point guard, but to me, the fact that you could make the argument there were more deserving players both years he won the MVP,
    the fact that dude’s defense sucks,
    and the fact that he’s always played in those Don Nelson/Mike D’Antoni offenses that make his stats look hella nice all kinda make me think he’s not as nice, all-time wise, as most other people say.
    But that’s just my opinion, y’all can bash me for it or call me a hater, but just how I feel about dude.
    Again, love his game, all-time great no doubt. But just don’t agree with him being top 10 PG of all time.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Jukai, I’m confused. Are you mad that I placed Nash 9th or was that sarcasm? You’re lucky that I didn’t go the Enigmatic route and place him outside the Top-10 because Lord knows I want to.

  • Z-Bound

    I hate how Nash is always scrutinised for the system he plays in. Every star player plays in a system designed to maximise their talents (and often consequently, their stats). Nash gets the same benefit, statistically, from playing in an up-tempo system as anyone else does in theirs. Would Lebron be as statistically good without being able to handle the ball whenever he wants? Would Timmy’s defense have been so good (in prior years) if his teams didn’t slow down every possession? Who knows, if Nash had spent his career playing in a defensive team with legit defensive teammates (something he’s never really had), then we might regard his ‘suspect’ D differently.

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    JTaylor: LOL I was bored and hoping you would go the Enigmatic route. But I do agree with you. IMAHO, it goes:
    1- Magic
    2- The Big O
    3- Zeke
    4- Stock
    5- Kidd
    6- Clyde
    7- Payton
    8- Cooz
    9- Archibald
    10- Nash
    That I’m relatively sure of. I’ll go further, but I’m kinda giving out half ass names without thinking…
    KJ, DJ, Cheeks, Billups, Ron Harper (if you consider him a PG), Nixon, Wilkins, Price, Hardaway, Lever (and Jackson if you believe Harper was a SG).

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    Forgot about Alvin Robertson, sigh, after 10 it gets so hard. And I’m not even trying to add Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and Derrick Rose (who all deserve top-20 consideration already) because it’s just too hard.
    I don’t get the Calvin Murphy love though. He couldn’t score, pass, or even rebound on Nash’s level, and his ‘aggressive’ defense couldn’t really cover the fact that even I tower over him. He never made it anywhere in the playoffs and barely made an all-star team.
    So, yeah.

  • http://Slamonline.coM nbk

    My top 10 Is the exact same as Jukai

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    Smart minds think alike, nbk. Also, dumb ones. I don’t know which one we are.

  • NJ4Life

    1) Magic

    2) Stock

    3) Kidd

    4) Zeke

    5) Oscar

  • http://slamonline.com The Philosopher

    Well, saying that Calvin Murphy could not score on Nash’s level can imply where you’re at.
    In my estimation.

  • http://Slamonline.coM nbk

    Haha someone grab the iq tests

  • http://Slamonline.coM nbk

    Calvin Murphy put the ball in the hoop more than nash, at about the same %.

  • Heals

    I see alot of agreeance on the top PG’s all-time (off the top of the head for most), but how about most, hmmmmmmm, entertaining/you would pay the most to see? Seeing Maravich, KJ and Timmy Hardaway got me reminiscing about White Chocolate, Spud, AI,(PG in size), etc. I dunno just seeing if new names pop-up?

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I love Calvin Murphy cause even with his short stature, dude was one of the best enforcers ever.
    Just a tough, tough little bastard. lol

  • http://Slamonline.com Caboose

    I see a lot of Kidd love on here. Don’t get me wrong, I love the guy (alumni from my college so I have to), but I’m surprised how high some people rank him. I’d put him around 7-12 best point guards, but not top 5.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    @Caboose – for me personally, I really value guys that can contribute in a large variety of ways, and among point guards Kidd’s ability to rack up triple-doubles was surpassed only by Magic and Big O.
    Plus his passing ability, defense and leadership abilities I think all combine to make him a top 5 PG.

  • http://Slamonline.coM nbk

    What Kidd did with the Nets And how he has completely flipped his game 180 degrees with age, is too underrated. After successfully guarding Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant, and LeBron James for extended minutes in consecutive series’ and orchestrating a championship offense for 33 minutes a night and was top 10 is APG and SPG he didnt even make the top 50 this year on slam.

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    NBK & Philo:
    Hmmm… let’s relook at that…
    Calvin put up 20 points a game at around 49%
    Nash around 17 at 51%.
    From that, you could roughly say that Calvin was a bit of a better scorer… but look at how he scored. Not a lot of range, he loved to drive in an era where half the athletic talent was in the ABA. I know the no-hand checking helped Nash out a lot, not gonna argue how weak defenses are for wings now… but many argue that Calvin Murphy’s height as a player coincides with a lack of talent.
    At least y’all didn’t argue with me on well, any other point I brought up.
    @Caboose: I mean, Kidd brought you 15 points, 7 rebounds, and 10 assists, great defense, great tempo control and leadership. He has two Finals appearances as the captain of his team, and a ring as the starting point guard. His longevity is ridiculous: at 37, he averaged over eight assists. And he has changed up his game to suit his teams, to make the best out of his situation… I give that big points, developing a three-point shot and off-ball skills for Dallas.
    I guess as “who would you want at their peak” goes, one could argue for putting Kidd out of the top-5 and higher up the list… but as a career goes, it’s hard to pick another player.

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    I also don’t counter Maravich and Iverson as point guards. They spent over half their careers at the two spot. Hell, even when they played the point, their mentality was different from a shoot-first point. A shoot-first point will score first, pass second. Maravich and Iverson scored first, scored second, then passed.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    JKidd should be in everyone’s Top-5 PG list, no ifs ands or buts about it. The guy ranks up there with Magic in terms of his ability to make average players look good and good players look great (look at what KMart and RJeff have done without him). If I had to choose a PG not named Magic/Zeke/Big O to run my team, JKidd is that guy.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Yeah, this Nets team had no business being in back to back finals but Kidd’s play and leadership got them there.
    Which currently active PGs do you guys see making the HOF, barring injury?
    I say Kidd, Nash, Paul, Williams, Rose and Wall.
    Maybe Rondo, depending on how he plays post Big 3.
    And yeah, Wall just finished his rookie year but dude has SO MUCH potential.

  • http://www.slamonline.com unf*ckwitable

    I been trying to lockout the lockout but ive cracked now. Good spot for Steve, personally i would of had him one or two spots higher but i can see why u got him here.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Enigmatic, I agree but TP and CBillups gets in.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com Moose

    Kidd, Nash, Paul, Rose. MAYBE Williams. Those are the current HOF PG’s. But Wall and Rondo? They are my guys, but HOF? Seems like a stretch.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Wow, a Moose sighting! What up kid?
    @JTaylor – Billups??? TP?
    I don’t see it. Well, Parker maybe cause he’s got 3 rings but…Billups?????

  • http://Slamonline.com Caboose

    Fair enough Matic and nbk. Maybe I just never truly appreciated Kidd in his prime.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Enigmatic, maybe Billups is a stretch but I’m sure TP gets in (3rings/1 Finals MVP). Since the Finals MVP was instituted in ’69, out of the 27 players to win the trophy, two (Jo Jo White and Cornbred Maxwell) are not in the HOF. So I think Billups has a good chance/case to make the HOF.

  • http://slamonline.com The Philosopher

    @Jukai:
    So, NOW you’re saying that Murphy was “a bit” of a better scorer than Nash. Which one is he? Either he is, or isn’t.(he is… especially with him being 5’9″, but anyways…) But now, that is neither here, nor there.
    I might not be able to get back here for another few hours, Jukai.
    I’ll do it like this;
    You’ve come up here and tried to make a case about how Bean is a better shooter than Larry Legend. Then you tried to come up here, and rettract by saying how you didn’t take into consideration the spot – up shooting abilities of the two.
    Now, you’re trying to make the case that… Steve Nash is a better scorer than Calvin Murphy. Although, you are now retracting that, as well.
    What I’m getting at, is this;
    It would behoove you, in my judgement, to quit acting like, and trying to convince people, that you’ve seen, or know about certain aspects of the game, and certain periods of history of the game.
    I’ve been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. And sometimes, you do pitch some gems. But obviously, there are many, MANY players that You – Tube (apparently) has given you the wrong idea about.
    You’ve never really seen them.
    Stop acting like you have.
    I’m sure many of the regular commenters up here are privy to tis, too. They just don’t have the time to get into a two day long debate with you.
    With love, Jukai.
    With love.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    @JTaylor – I think the fact that Billups was shuffled around and not given much of a chance the first half of his career might hurt his chances.
    But the more I think about it, I can see TP going ing. Certainly Duncan and Manu will make it in, so Parker at least deserves consideration.
    Would y’all say he’s the best European point of all time? I can’t think of anyone better.

  • http://slamonline.com The Philosopher

    Enigmatic:
    Great call on Tony Parker.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Enigmatic, yes. Also it doesn’t hurt that TP’s European because we all know how much the HOF loves Europeans. Sabonis and DPetrovic are in the HOF despite starting a combined a 463gms in their career.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Yeah but Sabonis played in a ton of games pre-NBA and from all accounts was a beast in his youth.

  • http://Slamonline.coM nbk

    Nash is more skilled than Calvin Murphy as a scorer, Calvin Murphy was probably a better scorer though. Nash never proved he could score a lot of points consistently. He scored when his teams needed it in big games in many different ways, but he was not the kind of scorer that could average 25 for a season. Calvin Murphy was and did. You can’t really call Nash a “scorer” at all His scoring is predicated on the fact that he would rather pass – Calvin Murphy was the exact opposite. He was basically a third world country as a passer compared to Nash though.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Right, my fault. I keep on forgetting that the HOF represents the entire basketball world not just the NBA.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    Plus the HOF is the “basketball” HOF, not the “NBA” HOF, so Sabonis definitely deserved it.

  • http://thetroyblog.com Teddy-the-Bear

    ^ Hmmm…

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    LOL I really get your panties in a bunch, don’t I Philo?
    First thing ya need is reading comprehension. I said, by stats alone, one could think of Murphy as a bit of a better scorer. When you factor in Nash’s range, percentages, and the fact that the 70s had a huge lack of athletic wings because they were in the ABA, I think Nash is a better scorer. The height remark was stupid.
    Second thing ya need is some balls to admit you are wrong. For a while I had a conviction that Kobe was a better shooter than Larry Bird, because I felt Kobe could get a shot off anywhere and Larry picked spots. Eboy convinced me otherwise, using the Olympics as an example. I thought about it, and decided I was wrong. I manned up. Remember how you still wont admit you made up the story that Jennings killed Rubio in a pre-draft practice in Minnesota?
    Third, you need to stop making this all off the top of your head. I can’t think of any huge disagreement I’ve had with any of the old hoop heads (exception: Allenp on Walton. We’ll never agree on him. We’re cool.) that was SO FAR out of line that I was shunned. I try not to watch youtube to make decisions, because good lord, this year alone I have a vastly better understanding of the history of the game because of all the games on NbaTV. A station I assume you don’t have, because your parents wont buy it for you.
    I know you’re all butt hurt because everyone called you out on all the madeup racism you were talking about in another thread, but really, you’re gonna focus on the scoring difference between Nash and Calvin, which was negligible?
    Well, good luck kiddo.

  • http://slamonline.com Ugh

    “THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO WAY STEVE NASH WOULD HAVE MADE WILT CHAMBERLAIN BETTER. PLAYERS BACK THEN WERE TALLER, AD BIGGER AFROS AND WORE SHORTER SHORTS!”

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    NBK: I kind of think of that 25-point season as more of an exception than a rule, because he never put up anything passed 20 points in every other season. It’s also the year Moses came to Houston and really opened things up for the perimeter players (although one could easily argue that it was harder for Calvin to score because of a lack of a good post scorer, I can see that argument). Some players (Michael Adams the best example I can think of, maybe World B. Free too) just have explosions some years.
    As for Nash actually carrying a load in scoring, I have no idea. You might be right, maybe if he was ever given the instructions to put up that shot load, he’d eventually be keyed up on and stopped. Obviously I don’t believe that, but you know, Suns bias and all.
    As for Tony Parker and Billups deserving the HoF… Calvin Murphy and Dave Bing are also in the HoF.
    Calvin Murphy: 18-4.4, good shooting percentages, “gritty” defense, one all-star nod, one Finals appearence (didn’t know about that!)
    Dave Bing: 20-6, awful shooting percentages, awful defense, seven all-star nods, absolutely nothing in the playoffs to note
    Tony Parker: 17-5.7, good shooting percentages, so-so defense, three all-star nods, three championships and one finals MVP
    Chauncy Billups: 16-5.6, disgusting shooting percentages, great defense, five all-star nods, one championship, one Finals MVP, one other finals appearence
    So you decide.

  • http://Slamonline.coM nbk

    I think Billups gets in. DJ got in among the guys you named. And I think Tony Parker getting in largley depends on when he retires and if he gets lost in the shuffle. There are a ton of better PG’s in the league right meow, and if they all have success Parker’s accomplishments might be over shadowed.

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    LOL, right meow… written on your phone, I see.
    DJ I give a lot of credit too. He went to three different teams and totally changed up his game for three different casts. That’s impressive.
    I agree with you, Tony Parker is on the outside looking in.

  • http://Slamonline.coM nbk

    iphone for sho Oh I was just saying DJ because of his stats. Billups went to 7 straight conference finals, and replaced a HOF player (AI) in Denver for his 7th straight. I think that and his finals appearance (wasnt it 2? Didnt they lose to the Spurs in 05?) and success gets him in alone. Idk about Nash and Murphy but why hasnt Kevin Johnson been considered for the Hall yet? wth? 17-9-3-1 on 49% – finals appearance, 5 time all nba, 3 all star app, 53 all time in PER – retired 11 years ago.

  • Blue

    Wow theres not going to be a single nugget on this list? every other playoff bound team from last season has at least one if not multiple players, but the 5th seed in the tougher western conference cant get a single spot? i mean i understand it since there really isint a standout individual, but still…

  • http://slamonline.com The Philosopher

    Jukai, Jukai…
    My “parents won’t buy NBA TV” for me?
    NICE! lol
    Resorting to little insults, are you?
    And, this is coming from a guy who thinks Chauncey Billups is an all timer.

  • http://slamonline.com The Philosopher

    And for the record, no one up here has ever had me pissed.
    People procure insults when they’re upset.
    Kind of like what you do.

  • AirForceONE

    Regardless of age, there is no way Rajon Rondo should have a better ranking than Steve Nash. Steve Nash is a better passer, shooter, and has a high bball IQ. Nash can make even the worst plays in the league look like All Stars.

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    @Philo: LOL, good rebuttals, kiddo.
    @NBK: Yep, Chauncey went to two Finals, but he actually won one of them so I said one championship, one finals appearance. My bad.
    Chauncey’s two finals performances were also pretty amazing. Against the Lakers, he slowed things down to a snail pace and still dropped 21/3.2/5.2 a game, utterly abused Payton, shot an insane 69.5tsp, and wasn’t too shabby on defense. However, it was the games he put up against San Antonio which made me a fan. In a series with the two slowest teams in the league, he dropped 20/5/6.3 and obliterated Tony Parker both offensively and defensively. He was the best player on either team in that series.
    This just puts him on the top-20 point guard list for me, and gives him a good shot at getting into the HoF. He was certainly lucky to be on the team he was on, but he ran it like no one else could. I mean, is there a greater upset than the 2004 Pistons beating the Lakers?

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    And KJ’s exclusion is puzzling, but I can understand the debate… Only four years of being at the top of his game, passed the 56-game mark only twice during the last seven years of his career, choked like a motherfuquah (counterpoint: so did Chamberlain, Hayes, Malone, Pippen, Lebron, Garnett….), his offense wasn’t really that varied…
    but I do think the pros outweigh the cons. Four years of 20-11 with great defense, all-NBA multiple times, and he was the second best player on a team that played the Bulls in the Finals. Super court vision, unstoppable drive and midrange, great isolation defense, damn nice floor general. I don’t know, I still think others got in for less. His lack of longevity and only moderate success is keeping him out.

  • Jc

    Don’t now how I feel about Bosh being over Nash really..

  • Jc

    Don’t now how I feel about Bosh being over Nash really..

  • LeCat

    Obviously, congrat’ to him and kidd to be at this age at this place. The “old” nba is dead, shame on what?

  • Armando

    1. Good write up.
    2. Age seems irrelevant when discussing Nash and/or hos skills.
    3. Debateable: What Nash is not good at hurts his team less than what westbrook is bad at hurts the thunder, and what nash is good at helps his team more than what westbrook’s good at helps the thunder.

  • Z-Bound

    I realise we’re long past where he could’ve been but no Luis Scola? Always underrated as hell

  • http://www.slamonline.com UNFROZEN CAVEMAN LAWYER

    JUKAI HAS LOST HIS DAMN MIND REGARDING THE 05 FINALS. YOU HONESTLY THINK BILLUPS WAS THE BEST PLAYER IN THAT SERIES?? THIS IS A NEW LOW FOR YOU.

  • KH10

    This is a decent spot for Nashty, everyone gets on his defence and with good reason, but he’s yet to play for a defensive coach. I remember his first few years in the league he made a name for himself with hustle and defense before flourishing on run and gun teams. would have liked to see him ahead of Bosh though.
    KJ was Chris Paul back in his day, but injuries pretty much ruined his career, should be in the HOF purely for the baseline slam on Dream.
    And there’s no way Billups or Parker don’t make it, both have been the most consistent, winning players at their position for almost a decade, the fact that they have played with other great players on great teams is why neither has exploded with gaudy individual stats but they are both very capable.

  • http://stapledesign.com Spaceship Jay

    Is it too early for Chris Paul? Or are we only talking older and past players? And Chauncey CERTAINLY was the best player of that finals.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com Moose

    @Enigmatic: I’ve been gone for too long, huh. I’m mad about the lockout, I think it’s all juvenile and ignorant.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Yeah, call me crazy but I think Tim Duncan and his 20.5 points, 14.1 rebounds, 2.1 assists and 2.1 blocks per game that series made him the best player in those finals.
    @Moose – Yeah, I know what you mean. Though I figured it was mainly school that was holding you and BlackPhantom from commenting on here more often. Which I wouldn’t be mad about at all.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I’m not sure how someone could have Nash as having a better all-time career than Kidd. That boggles the mind.

  • http://www.optimabbc.be Max

    ^^
    I read all these comments at school lol.

  • Heals

    Benefits that greatly shift the advantage to modern PG’s over their predacessors; league expansion and defensive restaints. It’s just a less physical/more open game offensively. Although older generations may have benefited from having to beat fewer teams (could be the opposite as now more teams but lesser quality) to win the Finals. Lastly I’m not arguing with anybody’ all-time Nash rank, but he plays in a system (both play calling and personel) that is tailor made for him to thrive statistically I don’t know if the same can be said for many of the players that some have ranked below Steve…

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com Moose

    @Enigmatic: School is definitely the reason. Beautiful weather is another reason. Lack of play is another. Other sports going on is another. School is definitely the big one, though. How old is BlackPhantom? Didn’t know he was a youngun.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I think he’s 15 or 16? He’s a good kid, though. Likes 90′s rap. That’s my dude.

  • http://hibachi20.blogspot.com Moose

    Haha I feel you. Hey, doesn’t matter the age as long as it doesn’t make you ignorant.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    No doubt, there’s a lot of 20-plus commenters on here that come off as immature jerks.
    nbk is the worst.
    Just kidding Soop! Lol

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    Tarzan: Sorry buddy, it’s just me, Spaceship Jay, John Hollinger and Bill Simmons over here who think Billups was the best player in that series. Feel free to give your Tim Duncan plushie an extra little hug!
    Allen: Not sure anyone actually said that… Kidd is a better player and had a better career.

  • Mr. Smith

    In my mind. The top 5 point guards of now are;

    1. Derrick Rose
    2. Rajon Rondo
    3. Steve Nash
    4. Deron Williams
    5. Monta Ellis

    Kidd is past his prime now so he isn’t there.

  • Armando

    Duncan was Duncan, and as always he was the key… but he shot 42%! Nevertheless, no Duncan, no title… (Manu was pretty awsome at times in that series as well)… I’ll call it a tie between Billups and Duncan.

  • Armando

    @Mr. Smith. No Chris Paul?

  • Armando

    @Mr. Smith: No Chris Paul?

  • http://Slamonline.coM nbk

    U lucky you live in Alaska Matic lol

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Don’t trip Soop, I’ll buy you a beer if I’m ever in AZ and we can sit and talk about how underrated and unappreciated David West is. lol

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    haha sounds like a plan. I advise you not to come between Mid-May through September, being in Alaska all this time, you’ll melt. And where the hell is #19, Chris Bosh. (I bet he is 19, any takers?)

  • Double J

    ya where is 19!??!

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Wow that might be worst ranking of point guards I’ve ever seen.

  • Armando

    Him or Love

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I’ll make sure and ask whatever establishment we have said beers at if I can enjoy mine in the walk-in freezer. lol
    Yeah, seriously, NO #19, NO update on the labor talks, did Ryne and company over-over-oversleep this morning?
    And yeah, SMH at Monta Ellis making someone’s top 5 PG list. Or that Chris Paul is nowhere to be found on it.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I figured whoever posted that list was black-out drunk & doesn’t even remember it.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Just come in the height of January. It’s the coldest month of the year here, probably the hottest day of the year in Alaska.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I wonder if Eric Gordon and OJ Mayo are on his top 10 PG list…

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    probably top of his all world PF list

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Also, Steve Nash has worked his way into having a better career than Kevin Johnson with his longevity, but I would say, in their primes, KJ was the better player.
    Any time KJ played more than 65 games, he was giving you 20 and 10. Period. Those are pure superstar numbers. Dude was putting Isiah Thomas/Magic Johnson numbers at one point. Nash, for all his talents, has never, in my opinion, been on that level.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    ^ I would agree with that.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    “In my mind. The top 5 power forwards of now are:
    1. Blake Griffin
    2. Kevin Love
    3. Kevin Garnett
    4. Amare Stoudemire
    5. Dwight Howard
    Duncan is past his prime now so he isn’t there.”

  • http://slamonline.com The Philosopher

    Spaceship Jay:
    If you’re still up here, check out the other thread, once more.
    Respectfully.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    ”In my mind. The top 5 shooting guards of now are:
    1. Dwyane Wade
    2. DeMar DeRozan
    3. Eric Gordon
    4. Manu Ginobili
    5. Luol Deng
    Kobe is past his prime so he isn’t there.”

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    ”In my mind. The top 5 NBA head coaches of now are:
    1. Tom Thibodeau
    2. Doc Rivers
    3. Rick Adelman
    4. Scott Brooks
    5. David Khan
    Popovich is past his prime so he isn’t there.”

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    LOL my bad, Mr. Smith. I feel like a jerk now.
    It’s all in fun.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    What is the other thread, I want to read it

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    What is the other thread so I can read it too?

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    In my mind the best players of all time are LeBron, Wade, Dirk, Dwight, Kobe. (All the other all-time greats are past their prime and don’t stand a chance)

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    “In my mind the top 5 SLAMOnline commenters of now are:
    1. AllenP
    2. JTaylor21
    3. Enigmatic
    4. Bull22
    5. Ben Osborne
    nbk is past his prime so he isn’t there.”

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    lmao, as long as Bull22 made the list.

  • Armando

    I’d put KJ 11th all time… great numbers in his prime, yes, but (cliche alert) stats only tells so much and assists are among the most dubious ones recorded. KJ never was the game changer Nash has been, and besides that his jumper was just barely better than Rondo’s..
    1. Magic
    2. Robertson
    3. Stockton
    4. Thomas
    5. Cousy
    6. Frazier
    7. Kidd
    8. Payton
    9. Nash
    10. Tiny
    11. KJ
    12. Wilkens

  • http://slamonline.com The Philosopher

    Allenp:
    The thread about Adam Morrison getting kicked out of a game.

  • Armando

    ^not saying he wasn’t a game changer, just not quite at Nash’s level.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I love that everybody’s got the Big O on their list cause that dude was just a straight up beast, but was he really a 1 or a 2?
    I honestly have never really known, and didn’t he even play the 3 in college?

  • http://Slamonline.coM nbk

    Armando you didn’t watch Kevin Johnson, that is clear.

  • http://Slamonline.coM nbk

    He was a PG his first couple seasons Matic. But back then it wasn’t PG/SG, it was Guard/Guard. Whoever could hand the ball better did. Same issue defining Jerry West

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Robertson defined positions differently. He aligned himself with West and Maravich as far as style of play and played forward in college. But he said in those days the “lead” guard handled the rock and made decisions even if he was.primarily a scorer. The other guard spotted up and used screens.
    You don’t average 20/10 and not be a game changer at the point position. And KJ was a very good mid range shooter just garbage from deep. Which he rarely shot.
    Nash had had less overall success with comparable talent and never put up the same level of stats despite a similar pace. KJ just couldn’t stay healthy although the seven years he played 65+ he averaged 20/10 and he was right there in several other years.

  • Heals

    Matic – C’mon you gotta give Pop more love than that, he’s in a tough spot with how that squad looks at the end of seasons (woredown even though he watches their mins the whole year). Still never forget seeing Doc and Thibs coach together in person. They were so intense, loud, animated and overall just entertainingly compelling when together (Thibs not being on Bos bench this past year can’t be overstated). When it comes up I’ll be interested to hear your POV’s on KLove…

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    @Allen: Ugh… I don’t know if I’d pick healthy KJ or prime Nash, it’s a tough one against two point guards I have rooted for in the playoffs. I think I’d take KJ for a series, Nash for the entire season. Is that fair?
    I wouldn’t ever put KJ on Isiah/Magic territory though. Isiah and Magic were putting up 20/13. KJ got the points but his passing was just not there.
    @Armando: Uh… I agree with you on some points, but KJ had a sweet midrange pullup. Rondo can’t hit anything passed a layup. Also, KJ developed a semi-reliable spotup jumper from outside at the very end of his career, but by then his legs were gone so I guess it doesn’t count as much.
    @Enigmatic: It’s a tough question, but if you watch his Milwaukee days, you’d realize he was a point guard. In his Cincinnati days, he did everything cause he HAD to do everything. He played the way he did because there was no one else to score. Oscar could play any position seamlessly, just like Magic, but unlike Magic he was put in a combo guard role for the majority of his career.
    You also have to understand how incredible 11 assists were back in the 60s. That’s about 15+ assists in today’s game. It would blow Stockton’s record away. Of course, you also have to adjust for pace, so I don’t know what the balance would be, but Oscar’s passing was ridiculous. I just don’t think you can hand out that many assists while playing in a shooting guard role.

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    I guess you could say…. on the break and in early offense, Oscar was the point. If he couldn’t find anything quickly, he switched to more of a point-forward role, trying to score first and pass second.
    He looked much more like a point guard when he played with Kareem.
    Of course, I’m judging this based on 15-20 games I’ve seen of him, plus All-Star games. So, grain of salt here.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    @Heals – nah, I got mad love for Pop.
    He’s probably my favorite coach now that PJax and Jerry Sloan are gone, I was just clowning on Mr. Smith’s PG fail list.

  • Heals

    Crazy thing is that so many people haven’t seen O play live, but just assume (not in a negative way, but based on knowing how the sport is played) that putting up his numbers would require an incredibly talented individual. Allen (or anybody) you seen alot of footage of Oscar? Not calling yout out just out of pure curiosity, cause we all know how stats can be misleading, so I’m curoius what aspects/skills/acumens of his game standout most to you guys…

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I need to watch more old school games.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    So no number 19 today? :(

  • http://Slamonline.coM nbk

    Kevin Johnson as a defender puts him over Nash in their primes imo. Both guys controlled the tempo and kept the defense on their heals. Just in different ways. Johnson took a team further, although not as its best player. The debate is good for their primes, Nash has had a much better career though.

  • Galagu

    this write up sounds defensive like even you don’t believe nash deserves this spot.

  • Rainman

    i jsut realized as was noted earlier by others…Bosh is gonna be ahead of Nash on this list?! WHAT?!?!?!?! I thought this was about how good u are, and ur value to ur team…in what WORLD is Bosh more Valuable than Nash for the Heat?? u know what, as the list goes on, im just gonna write the following comment, to whoever it applies to “should not have been ranked above Steve Nash” period. full stop.

  • Rainman

    btw. why are ppl sleeping on Manu Ginobili in the 05 finals as the best player then? I mean Chauncey’s gotten his recognition, so has Timmy, but are ppl forgetting how Manu(long hair, weaving as he drove to the basket, and slammed on both Rasheed and Big ben, and as he made all the critical plays?) played that series? he was unstopabble by every meaning of the word. And when they were anouncing the Finals MVP after game 7, Stern announced that the finals mvp voting was very close, Tim won by very little. (it was either 2 PERCENT of the vote, or 2 TOTAL votes…i think it was percentage, im not quite sure). All i’ve gotta say is…2005 Finals? GINOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOBILIIIIIIIIIIII! *Charles Barkley Voice*

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Well, Manu didn’t do too well in games 3, 4 and 5 of that series. Duncan was more consistent.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I have seen games and read the accounts of his adversaries. Dude was too strong and mean with a nasty mid range and a sweet post game. He was a bully on the court in the halfcourt but super smart. Very little flash. Like a hybrid of Chauncey and Stockton with Payton’s attitude without the lip. The mid range was awesome though.

  • http://slamonline.com The Philosopher

    I had a feeling that it was the beginning of the end for Kevin Johnson after Benjamin Roy Armstrong Jr. kicked his ass in the Finals.
    I mean, Johnson did not totally get dominated, for, he did get off.
    Then, how many overtimes did they play for Johnson to finish with that 25 and 9?
    But B.J. Armstrong…
    B. Roy Armstrong Jr.
    The look on Wade Barkley’s face after Armstrong hit that 3 from the corner was priceless.
    Barkley had te look of, “You hit the d@mned shot. You weren’t supposed to hit that shot. You guys are supposed to let me win this ring.”

  • http://slamonline.com SpaceJam

    You have to remember, those 10-12 assist Oscar was averaging, you only got an assist if they shot right after they got the ball. You couldn’t dribble before the shot, that alone makes it more impressive.

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    @Heals: I’ve seen around a dozen and a half Oscar Robertson games, not counting the all-star games he has played in. This year alone, I’ve seen about four or five games because NBA TV is playing them constantly. I’ve actually burnt myself out of old-school basketball recently cause I was watching so much (probably due to depression about lockout).
    Oscar really played like a point-forward, posting up, dribbling from baseline to baseline looking for a quick cut. He really worked things from inside out. He had a ridiculously good jump shot, hard to tell how much range it had because he never really strayed too far away from the key, but he could shoot beyond the midrange area.
    I’d correct Allenp and say a combo of Walt Frazier and Chauncy is probably a better opinion, if you have ever seen Frazier.
    Oscar was also supposed to be a real dbag. No one liked playing with him. No wonder Kobe modeled a lot of his game after Oscar.
    @NBK: Barkley kinda led the Suns, dude. KG had an absolutely atrocious finals. That’s a stigma that’s stuck by him for a long time.
    Andddddd….. I originally felt Manu should have gotten finals MVP, but like Enigmatic said, he was clutch but inconsistent.

  • http://Slamonline.coM nbk

    Barkley did lead the Suns. That’s why I said “KJ got further, although not as the best player”

  • http://Slamonline.coM nbk

    Best player pretty much meant leader for that Suns team. Barkley, Ainge, & Chambers were pretty much the only guys that even spoke on that team.

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Monta Ellis is a passing SG.
    LeBron James is the most overrated player of all time…
    and if Steve Nash doesn’t get a championship with Suns it will be the worst travesty in the NBA this side of the lockout…

  • http://sajkflf.com Jukai

    Dacre: Sure, except for Malone, Stockton, Ewing, Barkley, Baylor, and Iverson…. and I’m a Nash fan!

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    “with the Suns” is the problem. Unless Nash somehow ends up with a championship contender, I see him joining the ranks of ringless greats.

  • KH10

    A small part of me hopes we get about a 30 game regular season and then Nash and the rest of the old guys on the Suns can make a run at the playoffs. On paper you’ve got Nash and Brooks, VC and Petrius, GHill and Dudley, Frye and HW and Gortat and Lopez with Childress as a 12th man. Thats a pretty solid roster if they can *stay* healthy.

  • jimmer

    KJ was a numbers guy. I been with the suns since the early 90′s, and I can tell you Nash’s 18+11 in his prime were way better than KJ’s 20-10. Nash controlled and dictated the whole game, at one point around ’06 and ’07 in a way that really only magic had done on the offensive end. KJ just got numbers, good, solid player, but got numbers in a high tempo high scoring early 90′s game. Look back at the stats and you’ll see 4 or 5 guys getting 10+ assists or damn near close back in them days, including guys like muggsy bogues. Plus KJ couldn’t shoot til the end of his career. He was a drive and dish guy, kinda like Marbury but with class and better. Kj is like 12 or something. C billups? Top 10? GTFOH. Solid player in a comically weak conference who found a collapsing Lakeshow at the right time. Shame nash never had that luck.

  • Overtime

    This has probably been the best thread discussion wise on the top 50.
    Also, you guys are lucky as hell you get NBA tv at least while the lockout is on. Here in the UK, we got nothing. Sweeeeet nothing

  • http://members.cox.net/pilight pilight

    The NBA is gay. Want real basketball, watch the WNBA!

  • http://slamonline.com Ben Osborne

    Thank you Enigmatic!!!

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Just reading back there with Jukai – I agree, Stockton/Malone/Barkley/Iverson…definitely needed to cement their efforts with rings…. Ewing though…. HE could have had a ring if he DUNKED the ball and not laid it up (and missed…!?) agains the pacers that one year…. or if he manned up :P and got in the finals against an old robinson and young timmy…. he could have changed that series….
    …yeah Ewing needs a ring too.

  • http://slamonline 3kings

    I love rondo, but nash is better. THe mans 26 or somthn like that and hes still getting 17 and 10. better free throw shooter and way better jumpshot. no disrespect to rondo

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