The definitive ranking of the NBA’s best players.
by Ben York / @bjyork
I pride myself on being ignorant (and by ‘ignorant’ I mean ‘apathetic’) in many facets of life, but after nearly 30 years on this planet there are three things I’m downright sure of:
1. Human beings need food, water and shelter to survive.
2. The Earth is round. Trust me; I’ve seen pictures.
3. When you mention the name Steve Nash, it has to be followed by a conjunction (I.e. ‘but’) or we’ll all die.
I’m 100 percent convinced of this.
And since I’m not ready to die yet…
Steve Nash has phenomenal vision offensively, BUT he’s not a good defensive player.
In related news, the sky is blue and grass is green.
The great thing about Nash is that he has never pretended to be someone different. He isn’t like a box of chocolates; with Nash, you always know what you’re going to get. He’ll help your team score a ton of points but he can be a liability on the defensive end of the floor. This isn’t anything new, mind you; it has obviously been his Achilles heel (for lack of a better term) over the course of his career.
The question then becomes: Is it (still) worth it? Is it worth sacrificing comprehensive defensive schemes to win a lot of games in the regular season? Based on what he’s been able to do with Phoenix Suns teams since 2004 that have featured an abundance of talent as well as squads with mediocre talent (at best), I think the answer is, unequivocally, yes.
Why? Simple—because in this case, there isn’t an equal and opposite reaction. Nash’s offensive prowess and leadership continue to FAR outweigh his defensive inefficiencies.
Steve Nash makes others infinitely better, BUT he’s the beneficiary of an up-tempo system.
Nash is the BASF of the NBA; he doesn’t make the product, he makes the product better. Isn’t that what you want in a point guard? We can delve into this chicken and egg debate (and many have over the years) but if you’re honest with yourself, there isn’t one definitive answer. More clearly, one isn’t contingent on the other.
Any point guard worth their salt can run an up-tempo system. Some (like Nash) simply run it better than others.
Does the system help make Nash more effective? Absolutely. Conversely, does Nash make the system more effective? No doubt about it.
To this day, that still holds true.
Steve Nash is one of the best point guards in NBA history, BUT he’s never won a ‘chip.
Unless something drastic changes, in all likelihood, Nash will never win an NBA Championship. Based on the Suns’ salary cap situation in the next 37 five years, hope isn’t exactly knocking on the door.
Adam Morrison has two titles. Nash has zero. I don’t have anything against Adam Morrison but that reality physically hurts me.
Should this affect Nash’s legacy? Should he even have a legacy? Knowing Nash, he wouldn’t care either way but I’d argue that he should. After all, he is a two-time MVP recipient and has managed to make the point guard a vastly more relevant position in the coming decade.
With Nash, every time he and the Suns have generated sustainable momentum and began to build a team that could feasibly compete for a championship, something dramatic changes. (Don’t call it rebuilding!) Joe Johnson signs elsewhere. Shawn Marion is traded. Amar’e Stoudemire was lowballed.
But Nash doesn’t want you to feel sorry for him and neither do I. One could make an argument that the Suns haven’t caught a break in the Nash era but he’ll be the first to tell you that maybe they just weren’t good enough.
***
Steve Nash is 37 years old and has the potential, at the very least, of being among the league-leaders in assists for the next several years. That alone solidifies him as a top-20 player. The fact that he could help the Suns finish remotely close to .500 last season is nothing short of remarkable.
Ultimately, Nash’s No. 20 ranking means that, in a general sense, 19 players in the NBA are currently better/more valuable. I’m OK with that. In fact, when I submitted my rankings I had Nash much lower on my list. Not long ago, there was a time when Nash was undeniably the best (and most important) point guard in the game. But as the NBA evolves and the Roses and Pauls continue to make a stirring impact on their teams and the League, the balance of power has quickly shifted.
Even so, the dude managed to lead the League in assists again last season without Amar’e Stoudemire. Perhaps more compelling, he also led the Suns in scoring by the end of the year.
If you ask me, that’s pretty damn impressive.
| SLAMonline Top 50 Players 2011 | ||||
| Rank | Player | Team | Position | Pos. Rank |
| 50 | Luol Deng | Bulls | SF | 8 |
| 49 | Andrew Bogut | Bucks | C | 7 |
| 48 | Ray Allen | Celtics | SG | 9 |
| 47 | Marc Gasol | Grizzlies | C | 6 |
| 46 | David West | Hornets | PF | 15 |
| 45 | Kevin Martin | Rockets | SG | 8 |
| 44 | Andrew Bynum | Lakers | C | 5 |
| 43 | Brandon Jennings | Bucks | PG | 11 |
| 42 | Lamar Odom | Lakers | PF | 14 |
| 41 | Gerald Wallace | Blazers | SF | 7 |
| 40 | Brook Lopez | Nets | C | 4 |
| 39 | Joakim Noah | Bulls | C | 3 |
| 38 | Carlos Boozer | Bulls | PF | 13 |
| 37 | Kevin Garnett | Celtics | PF | 12 |
| 36 | Eric Gordon | Clippers | SG | 7 |
| 35 | Tony Parker | Spurs | PG | 10 |
| 34 | Andre Iguodala | 76ers | SG | 6 |
| 33 | Al Jefferson | Jazz | PF | 11 |
| 32 | Al Horford | Hawks | C | 2 |
| 31 | Stephen Curry | Warriors | PG | 9 |
| 30 | Tim Duncan | Spurs | PF | 10 |
| 29 | Josh Smith | Hawks | PF | 9 |
| 28 | Manu Ginobili | Spurs | SG | 5 |
| 27 | Tyreke Evans | Kings | PG | 8 |
| 26 | Rudy Gay | Grizzlies | SF | 6 |
| 25 | John Wall | Wizards | PG | 7 |
| 24 | Danny Granger | Pacers | SF | 5 |
| 23 | Monta Ellis | Warriors | SG | 4 |
| 22 | Joe Johnson | Hawks | SG | 3 |
| 21 | Paul Pierce | Celtics | SF | 4 |
| 20 | Steve Nash | Suns | PG | 6 |
Notes
• Rankings are based solely on projected ’11-12 performance.
• Contributors to this list include: Maurice Bobb, Shannon Booher, David Cassilo, Bryan Crawford, Sandy Dover, Adam Figman, Jon Jaques, Eldon Khorshidi, Ryne Nelson, Doobie Okon, Ben Osborne, Quinn Peterson, Dave Schnur, Abe Schwadron, Dan Shapiro, Irv Soonachan, Todd Spehr, Tzvi Twersky, Yaron Weitzman, DeMarco Williams and Ben York.
• Want more of the SLAMonline Top 50? Check out the archive.
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will be reliable for 14 4 and 10
PG(5):Rose,Rondo,Dwill,CP3 and Westbrook
SG(2):Kobe and Wade
SF(3): Lebron, KD and Melo
PF(8): Dirk,Amare,Pau,Bosh,Blake,Lamarcus A.,Z-Bo and Love
C: DHoward
Go ahead, start the debate. I’ll be here.
Underrated.
For what it is worth, shots fired (shout out @Enigmatic) in response to you on the other thread.
So, because of Darksaber’s stated experience, you now have a better idea of the status of Black and White players over there?
Okay.
Thanks.
He’s better than Chauncey Billups.
Someone answer me this;
Is Chauncey Billups a top 15 all time point guard?
_________________________________________________________________
1. Earvin
2. Lord Thomas III
3. Oscar Robertson
4. Houston Stockton of Spokane, Washington
5. Robert Cousy
6. Jason Kidd
7. Nate Archibald
8. Gary Payton
9. Walt Frazier
10. Steve Nash
Everything is debatable except Earvin’s place…
To me, Nash is on the outside looking in on the top 10 PGs of all time.
In addition to those listed, by Philo, I’d probably take Calvin Murphy, Mo Cheeks, Alvin Robertson, Norm Nixon and Lenny Wilkins over dude.
So to me he’s in the 15-20 range.
Nash is an amazing, all-time great point guard, but to me, the fact that you could make the argument there were more deserving players both years he won the MVP,
the fact that dude’s defense sucks,
and the fact that he’s always played in those Don Nelson/Mike D’Antoni offenses that make his stats look hella nice all kinda make me think he’s not as nice, all-time wise, as most other people say.
But that’s just my opinion, y’all can bash me for it or call me a hater, but just how I feel about dude.
Again, love his game, all-time great no doubt. But just don’t agree with him being top 10 PG of all time.
1- Magic
2- The Big O
3- Zeke
4- Stock
5- Kidd
6- Clyde
7- Payton
8- Cooz
9- Archibald
10- Nash
That I’m relatively sure of. I’ll go further, but I’m kinda giving out half ass names without thinking…
KJ, DJ, Cheeks, Billups, Ron Harper (if you consider him a PG), Nixon, Wilkins, Price, Hardaway, Lever (and Jackson if you believe Harper was a SG).
I don’t get the Calvin Murphy love though. He couldn’t score, pass, or even rebound on Nash’s level, and his ‘aggressive’ defense couldn’t really cover the fact that even I tower over him. He never made it anywhere in the playoffs and barely made an all-star team.
So, yeah.
In my estimation.
Just a tough, tough little bastard. lol
Plus his passing ability, defense and leadership abilities I think all combine to make him a top 5 PG.
Hmmm… let’s relook at that…
Calvin put up 20 points a game at around 49%
Nash around 17 at 51%.
From that, you could roughly say that Calvin was a bit of a better scorer… but look at how he scored. Not a lot of range, he loved to drive in an era where half the athletic talent was in the ABA. I know the no-hand checking helped Nash out a lot, not gonna argue how weak defenses are for wings now… but many argue that Calvin Murphy’s height as a player coincides with a lack of talent.
At least y’all didn’t argue with me on well, any other point I brought up.
@Caboose: I mean, Kidd brought you 15 points, 7 rebounds, and 10 assists, great defense, great tempo control and leadership. He has two Finals appearances as the captain of his team, and a ring as the starting point guard. His longevity is ridiculous: at 37, he averaged over eight assists. And he has changed up his game to suit his teams, to make the best out of his situation… I give that big points, developing a three-point shot and off-ball skills for Dallas.
I guess as “who would you want at their peak” goes, one could argue for putting Kidd out of the top-5 and higher up the list… but as a career goes, it’s hard to pick another player.
Which currently active PGs do you guys see making the HOF, barring injury?
I say Kidd, Nash, Paul, Williams, Rose and Wall.
Maybe Rondo, depending on how he plays post Big 3.
And yeah, Wall just finished his rookie year but dude has SO MUCH potential.
@JTaylor – Billups??? TP?
I don’t see it. Well, Parker maybe cause he’s got 3 rings but…Billups?????
So, NOW you’re saying that Murphy was “a bit” of a better scorer than Nash. Which one is he? Either he is, or isn’t.(he is… especially with him being 5’9″, but anyways…) But now, that is neither here, nor there.
I might not be able to get back here for another few hours, Jukai.
I’ll do it like this;
You’ve come up here and tried to make a case about how Bean is a better shooter than Larry Legend. Then you tried to come up here, and rettract by saying how you didn’t take into consideration the spot – up shooting abilities of the two.
Now, you’re trying to make the case that… Steve Nash is a better scorer than Calvin Murphy. Although, you are now retracting that, as well.
What I’m getting at, is this;
It would behoove you, in my judgement, to quit acting like, and trying to convince people, that you’ve seen, or know about certain aspects of the game, and certain periods of history of the game.
I’ve been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. And sometimes, you do pitch some gems. But obviously, there are many, MANY players that You – Tube (apparently) has given you the wrong idea about.
You’ve never really seen them.
Stop acting like you have.
I’m sure many of the regular commenters up here are privy to tis, too. They just don’t have the time to get into a two day long debate with you.
With love, Jukai.
With love.
But the more I think about it, I can see TP going ing. Certainly Duncan and Manu will make it in, so Parker at least deserves consideration.
Would y’all say he’s the best European point of all time? I can’t think of anyone better.
Great call on Tony Parker.
First thing ya need is reading comprehension. I said, by stats alone, one could think of Murphy as a bit of a better scorer. When you factor in Nash’s range, percentages, and the fact that the 70s had a huge lack of athletic wings because they were in the ABA, I think Nash is a better scorer. The height remark was stupid.
Second thing ya need is some balls to admit you are wrong. For a while I had a conviction that Kobe was a better shooter than Larry Bird, because I felt Kobe could get a shot off anywhere and Larry picked spots. Eboy convinced me otherwise, using the Olympics as an example. I thought about it, and decided I was wrong. I manned up. Remember how you still wont admit you made up the story that Jennings killed Rubio in a pre-draft practice in Minnesota?
Third, you need to stop making this all off the top of your head. I can’t think of any huge disagreement I’ve had with any of the old hoop heads (exception: Allenp on Walton. We’ll never agree on him. We’re cool.) that was SO FAR out of line that I was shunned. I try not to watch youtube to make decisions, because good lord, this year alone I have a vastly better understanding of the history of the game because of all the games on NbaTV. A station I assume you don’t have, because your parents wont buy it for you.
I know you’re all butt hurt because everyone called you out on all the madeup racism you were talking about in another thread, but really, you’re gonna focus on the scoring difference between Nash and Calvin, which was negligible?
Well, good luck kiddo.
As for Nash actually carrying a load in scoring, I have no idea. You might be right, maybe if he was ever given the instructions to put up that shot load, he’d eventually be keyed up on and stopped. Obviously I don’t believe that, but you know, Suns bias and all.
As for Tony Parker and Billups deserving the HoF… Calvin Murphy and Dave Bing are also in the HoF.
Calvin Murphy: 18-4.4, good shooting percentages, “gritty” defense, one all-star nod, one Finals appearence (didn’t know about that!)
Dave Bing: 20-6, awful shooting percentages, awful defense, seven all-star nods, absolutely nothing in the playoffs to note
Tony Parker: 17-5.7, good shooting percentages, so-so defense, three all-star nods, three championships and one finals MVP
Chauncy Billups: 16-5.6, disgusting shooting percentages, great defense, five all-star nods, one championship, one Finals MVP, one other finals appearence
So you decide.
DJ I give a lot of credit too. He went to three different teams and totally changed up his game for three different casts. That’s impressive.
I agree with you, Tony Parker is on the outside looking in.
My “parents won’t buy NBA TV” for me?
NICE! lol
Resorting to little insults, are you?
And, this is coming from a guy who thinks Chauncey Billups is an all timer.
People procure insults when they’re upset.
Kind of like what you do.
@NBK: Yep, Chauncey went to two Finals, but he actually won one of them so I said one championship, one finals appearance. My bad.
Chauncey’s two finals performances were also pretty amazing. Against the Lakers, he slowed things down to a snail pace and still dropped 21/3.2/5.2 a game, utterly abused Payton, shot an insane 69.5tsp, and wasn’t too shabby on defense. However, it was the games he put up against San Antonio which made me a fan. In a series with the two slowest teams in the league, he dropped 20/5/6.3 and obliterated Tony Parker both offensively and defensively. He was the best player on either team in that series.
This just puts him on the top-20 point guard list for me, and gives him a good shot at getting into the HoF. He was certainly lucky to be on the team he was on, but he ran it like no one else could. I mean, is there a greater upset than the 2004 Pistons beating the Lakers?
but I do think the pros outweigh the cons. Four years of 20-11 with great defense, all-NBA multiple times, and he was the second best player on a team that played the Bulls in the Finals. Super court vision, unstoppable drive and midrange, great isolation defense, damn nice floor general. I don’t know, I still think others got in for less. His lack of longevity and only moderate success is keeping him out.
2. Age seems irrelevant when discussing Nash and/or hos skills.
3. Debateable: What Nash is not good at hurts his team less than what westbrook is bad at hurts the thunder, and what nash is good at helps his team more than what westbrook’s good at helps the thunder.
KJ was Chris Paul back in his day, but injuries pretty much ruined his career, should be in the HOF purely for the baseline slam on Dream.
And there’s no way Billups or Parker don’t make it, both have been the most consistent, winning players at their position for almost a decade, the fact that they have played with other great players on great teams is why neither has exploded with gaudy individual stats but they are both very capable.
@Moose – Yeah, I know what you mean. Though I figured it was mainly school that was holding you and BlackPhantom from commenting on here more often. Which I wouldn’t be mad about at all.
I read all these comments at school lol.
nbk is the worst.
Just kidding Soop! Lol
Allen: Not sure anyone actually said that… Kidd is a better player and had a better career.
2. Rajon Rondo
3. Steve Nash
4. Deron Williams
5. Monta Ellis Kidd is past his prime now so he isn’t there.
Yeah, seriously, NO #19, NO update on the labor talks, did Ryne and company over-over-oversleep this morning?
And yeah, SMH at Monta Ellis making someone’s top 5 PG list. Or that Chris Paul is nowhere to be found on it.
Any time KJ played more than 65 games, he was giving you 20 and 10. Period. Those are pure superstar numbers. Dude was putting Isiah Thomas/Magic Johnson numbers at one point. Nash, for all his talents, has never, in my opinion, been on that level.
1. Blake Griffin
2. Kevin Love
3. Kevin Garnett
4. Amare Stoudemire
5. Dwight Howard
Duncan is past his prime now so he isn’t there.”
If you’re still up here, check out the other thread, once more.
Respectfully.
1. Dwyane Wade
2. DeMar DeRozan
3. Eric Gordon
4. Manu Ginobili
5. Luol Deng
Kobe is past his prime so he isn’t there.”
1. Tom Thibodeau
2. Doc Rivers
3. Rick Adelman
4. Scott Brooks
5. David Khan
Popovich is past his prime so he isn’t there.”
It’s all in fun.
1. AllenP
2. JTaylor21
3. Enigmatic
4. Bull22
5. Ben Osborne
nbk is past his prime so he isn’t there.”
1. Magic
2. Robertson
3. Stockton
4. Thomas
5. Cousy
6. Frazier
7. Kidd
8. Payton
9. Nash
10. Tiny
11. KJ
12. Wilkens
The thread about Adam Morrison getting kicked out of a game.
I honestly have never really known, and didn’t he even play the 3 in college?
You don’t average 20/10 and not be a game changer at the point position. And KJ was a very good mid range shooter just garbage from deep. Which he rarely shot.
Nash had had less overall success with comparable talent and never put up the same level of stats despite a similar pace. KJ just couldn’t stay healthy although the seven years he played 65+ he averaged 20/10 and he was right there in several other years.
I wouldn’t ever put KJ on Isiah/Magic territory though. Isiah and Magic were putting up 20/13. KJ got the points but his passing was just not there.
@Armando: Uh… I agree with you on some points, but KJ had a sweet midrange pullup. Rondo can’t hit anything passed a layup. Also, KJ developed a semi-reliable spotup jumper from outside at the very end of his career, but by then his legs were gone so I guess it doesn’t count as much.
@Enigmatic: It’s a tough question, but if you watch his Milwaukee days, you’d realize he was a point guard. In his Cincinnati days, he did everything cause he HAD to do everything. He played the way he did because there was no one else to score. Oscar could play any position seamlessly, just like Magic, but unlike Magic he was put in a combo guard role for the majority of his career.
You also have to understand how incredible 11 assists were back in the 60s. That’s about 15+ assists in today’s game. It would blow Stockton’s record away. Of course, you also have to adjust for pace, so I don’t know what the balance would be, but Oscar’s passing was ridiculous. I just don’t think you can hand out that many assists while playing in a shooting guard role.
He looked much more like a point guard when he played with Kareem.
Of course, I’m judging this based on 15-20 games I’ve seen of him, plus All-Star games. So, grain of salt here.
He’s probably my favorite coach now that PJax and Jerry Sloan are gone, I was just clowning on Mr. Smith’s PG fail list.
I mean, Johnson did not totally get dominated, for, he did get off.
Then, how many overtimes did they play for Johnson to finish with that 25 and 9?
But B.J. Armstrong…
B. Roy Armstrong Jr.
The look on Wade Barkley’s face after Armstrong hit that 3 from the corner was priceless.
Barkley had te look of, “You hit the d@mned shot. You weren’t supposed to hit that shot. You guys are supposed to let me win this ring.”
Oscar really played like a point-forward, posting up, dribbling from baseline to baseline looking for a quick cut. He really worked things from inside out. He had a ridiculously good jump shot, hard to tell how much range it had because he never really strayed too far away from the key, but he could shoot beyond the midrange area.
I’d correct Allenp and say a combo of Walt Frazier and Chauncy is probably a better opinion, if you have ever seen Frazier.
Oscar was also supposed to be a real dbag. No one liked playing with him. No wonder Kobe modeled a lot of his game after Oscar.
@NBK: Barkley kinda led the Suns, dude. KG had an absolutely atrocious finals. That’s a stigma that’s stuck by him for a long time.
Andddddd….. I originally felt Manu should have gotten finals MVP, but like Enigmatic said, he was clutch but inconsistent.
LeBron James is the most overrated player of all time…
and if Steve Nash doesn’t get a championship with Suns it will be the worst travesty in the NBA this side of the lockout…
Also, you guys are lucky as hell you get NBA tv at least while the lockout is on. Here in the UK, we got nothing. Sweeeeet nothing
…yeah Ewing needs a ring too.
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