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Wednesday, October 26th, 2011 at 1:15 pm  |  433 responses

Top 50: Kobe Bryant, no. 3

The definitive ranking of the NBA’s best players.

by Farmer Jones / @thefarmerjones

I don’t want to overplay the significance of this, but: nobody wanted Kobe.

This list, which so many of you have received so good naturedly, was submitted last month to the vast pool of SLAMonline freelancers as a first-come, first-served opportunity. The top two (I don’t want to give anything away, but you’ll notice the name “Joey Graham” has been conspicuously absent thus far…) were claimed before the list was sent out, leaving players 3-50.

Kobe Bryant was No. 3. He remains so.

I wasn’t sure I was going to write one of these this year, but as the list was sent out, and then sent out again, I couldn’t help noticing that, while some of my fellow scribblers were apparently clamoring for the chance to weigh in on LaMarcus Aldridge and Al Jefferson, Mr. Bean remained unclaimed.

At first, this shocked me. But then I realized it made a perfect sort of sense.

We’re kind of over Kobe, aren’t we?

I probably should’ve said this sooner, but what you’re reading is not the sort of Bean-bashing I’ve done in the past. (Which, let’s be honest, is a shame. I think we all had a lot of fun back then, didn’t we?) When I say we’re “over” Kobe, I don’t mean we don’t like him (which is irrelevant, even for me, at this point), or that we think he sucks, which, duh. Kobe’s still really good at basketball.

It just seems like maybe Kobe is past the point of being worth arguing about.

OK, so maybe not for all of us. Ha, ha, ha. No. Some of you us will argue about anything, I know. But after a season in which he put up his lowest scoring average in seven years (granted, he was sort of banged up all season), and after a Playoff run that ended in a second-round sweep (granted, to the eventual champs), it seems like our collective analytical energy is directed increasingly toward LeBron (still…) and Kevin and Derrick and Dwyane and Dwight. Sure, we’ll still make our case for where Kobe Bryant, Elder Statesman™, belongs among these younger lads who lack his creaky knees and fistful of rings. But it doesn’t seem to matter, not nearly so much as it did.

There’s a reason for this. A good one. It’s about legacies, and how they become set regardless of whether we’re consciously aware of it at the time.

Kobe Bryant’s legacy is set.

Kobe Bryant might play one more season, or three, or five (which would make 20—wow), but it doesn’t much matter. However much longer he goes, his career totals will go up and his averages will taper off accordingly, and it won’t really matter. He might win another title or two, which would be impressive without Phil Jackson, but will also almost certainly require the help of a player like Dwight Howard (you know, as a random example), and so that won’t matter, either.

It won’t matter because we all know where Kobe stands.

Better than Jordan? No. Never. But close, in many ways as close as anyone’s gotten, and maybe as close as anyone will get.

Better than LeBron? No, not anymore—but yes, certainly, where legacies are concerned. In that, it might never be particularly close.

We can argue the rest—Kobe vs Wade in their prime, Kobe vs Durant, Kobe vs Rose, Kobe vs Barnes or Shabazz or whoever comes next—and we will, because that’s what we do. We can make the case that some nights, during this theoretical ‘11-12 season that may never exist, Kobe Bryant still will be the best basketball player alive. And we’ll be right. Because, some nights, he still will be.

Other nights he’ll show his age, or his impatience, or his belligerence, and those of us you who are so inclined will smile at his eternal, incurable flaws and comfort yourselves with the knowledge that his time is near.

And it doesn’t matter. Because his career, in as much as it matters as a discussion piece for basketball fans, is pretty much over.

But for now—right now, today—a list composed of the opinions of a bunch of well-informed basketball writer/fans says Kobe Bryant is the third-best player in the NBA. (We had him second last year, and second the year before that.) I didn’t vote on this list, but I’m fine with his ranking. I’d probably be fine if we had him fourth, or sixth, or maybe even second. I’m not all that into lists. I don’t think it’s a big deal either way.

Hey, do you guys have any thoughts on this?

SLAMonline Top 50 Players 2011
Rank Player Team Position Pos. Rank
50 Luol Deng Bulls SF 8
49 Andrew Bogut Bucks C 7
48 Ray Allen Celtics SG 9
47 Marc Gasol Grizzlies C 6
46 David West Hornets PF 15
45 Kevin Martin Rockets SG 8
44 Andrew Bynum Lakers C 5
43 Brandon Jennings Bucks PG 11
42 Lamar Odom Lakers PF 14
41 Gerald Wallace Blazers SF 7
40 Brook Lopez Nets C 4
39 Joakim Noah Bulls C 3
38 Carlos Boozer Bulls PF 13
37 Kevin Garnett Celtics PF 12
36 Eric Gordon Clippers SG 7
35 Tony Parker Spurs PG 10
34 Andre Iguodala 76ers SG 6
33 Al Jefferson Jazz PF 11
32 Al Horford Hawks C 2
31 Stephen Curry Warriors PG 9
30 Tim Duncan Spurs PF 10
29 Josh Smith Hawks PF 9
28 Manu Ginobili Spurs SG 5
27 Tyreke Evans Kings PG 8
26 Rudy Gay Grizzlies SF 6
25 John Wall Wizards PG 7
24 Danny Granger Pacers SF 5
23 Monta Ellis Warriors SG 4
22 Joe Johnson Hawks SG 3
21 Paul Pierce Celtics SF 4
20 Steve Nash Suns PG 6
19 Zach Randolph Grizzlies PF 8
18 LaMarcus Aldridge Blazers PF 7
17 Chris Bosh Heat PF 6
16 Kevin Love TWolves PF 5
15 Rajon Rondo Celtics PG 5
14 Blake Griffin Clippers PF 4
13 Pau Gasol Lakers PF 3
12 Russell Westbrook Thunder PG 4
11 Amar’e Stoudemire Knicks PF 2
10 Deron Williams Nets PG 3
9 Carmelo Anthony Knicks SF 3
8 Chris Paul Hornets PG 2
7 Dirk Nowitzki Mavs PF 1
6 Dwight Howard Magic C 1
5 Dwyane Wade Heat SG 2
4 Derrick Rose Bulls PG 1
3 Kobe Bryant Lakers SG 1

Notes
• Rankings are based solely on projected ’11-12 performance.
• Contributors to this list include: Maurice Bobb, Shannon Booher, David Cassilo, Bryan Crawford, Sandy Dover, Adam Figman, Jon Jaques, Eldon Khorshidi, Ryne Nelson, Doobie Okon, Ben Osborne, Quinn Peterson, Dave Schnur, Abe Schwadron, Dan Shapiro, Irv Soonachan, Todd Spehr, Tzvi Twersky, Yaron Weitzman, DeMarco Williams and Ben York.
• Want more of the SLAMonline Top 50? Check out the archive.

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  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/category/blogs/farmer-jones/ Ryan Jones

    Woo hoo!

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    OH SH*T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Nigel

    Figured

  • http://www.slamonline.com Jahmai

    Great piece.

  • Samco

    NUMBER 3??!!??!!??!!??!!??!!????????? I suppose next summer he’ll magically jump back up to #1 if the Lakers win the ‘chip. These rankings are a joke.

  • Grenners

    No arguments, and a thirty game season might mean we see 30 ppg for the last time.

  • http://www.twitter.com/BigFutureLG BigFuture37

    Kevin Durant 2 & LeBron 1…but we all know LeBron is and has been the best player in the league 4 a long time time…and I’m not even a fan of his

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Didn’t want to say it, I told you I was gonna criticize you Ryan, but that was pretty damn good. Maybe Jukai can come in and say something crazy rude to you like the “old days” but in the meantime, Ryan Jones Posted: Oct.27 2008 at 10:53 am
    “If you have dentures, do not use artificial sweeteners, because you will get a fake cavity.”

  • http://www.optimabbc.be Max

    Great write up Ryan.

  • marc

    and so it begins.

  • http://slamonline.com Saviour

    Amazing how much an impact some pick-up games and highlights on ballislife can do to a ranking.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Wayno

    1. LeBron
    2. Dwight
    3. DRose
    4. DWade
    5. Kevin Durant
    6. Kobe

    If we’re talking about projections for next season people…lets get real. Kobe is far from done as a player, he’s still great…but the 3rd best in the league next season? Reallly?

  • http://www.optimabbc.be Max

    I just hope KD won’t be at 1.

  • http://Slamonline.com Caboose

    Best write-up so far. Still not a huge fan of the ranking but whatever. I wonder who’s gonna start the arguing train going today.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/blogs/farmer-jones/2011/10/top-50-kobe-bryant-no-3/ Kevin Grubez

    Should have been:
    1. LeBron James
    2. Dwight Howard
    3. Kevin Durant
    4. Dwyane Wade
    5. Kobe Bryant
    6. Chris Paul
    7. Derrick Rose
    8. Dirk Nowitski
    9. Carmelo Anthony
    10. Deron Williams

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    I haven’t slept for 10 days because that would be entirely too long.

  • Jetfuel

    Really! A guy that`s a medium defender is 2nd best in the L? Love Durant, but that is way too high for next season.

  • marc

    i hope kobe goes out with a bang. Meaning winning a ring.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    I like how Ryan points out that Kobe will probably have some really great nights in this upcoming “missing” season and will show his fading skills on others. That to me makes this ranking so idiotic. His consistency is questionable…especially in reference to the other guys that make up spots 4-12. I re-looked at the list and to be honest, I could have seen Bean sitting at 11 or 12 and without my despise for him being turned up to 10, I could validate it with the 30+ years of basketball knowledge I have. Again, according to the criteria that has gone together with this list since it’s inception, it is supposed to be about what a guy will do for the UPCOMING season, not giving a guy props for a dudes past accomplishments, as Ryan clearly pointed out. That doesn’t mean Kobe isn’t a better player than some of the guys that are below him, but as far as OUTPRODUCING them NOW, it just sounds farcical.

  • Shecky Shabazz

    So I’m guessing it goes:
    2) Kwame “Stone Hands” Brown
    1) Brian “White Mamba” Scalabrine

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    He’s 3 or 4 places too high in my opinion. But still I expect some whining from the Kobe-herd.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I mean, solid write up.
    Ryan Jones always does his thing.
    Now, my own personal opinion, I think the collective heads at SLAM are overrating Kevin Durant.
    To me, KD is a modern day Dominique Wilkins, at least statistically speaking.
    That is hardly an insult, because the other guy is a Hall of Famer, but it is a bit of a backhanded compliment, because just like Nique, Durant is GREAT at scoring, and only good or average at everything else.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    And Wade DEFINITELY deserved to be higher than Kobe.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Caboose, I believe the question is, “which Kobe fan is going to blow a gasket about Kevin Durant being #2?”

  • http://www.waihak.blogspot.com Tariq

    These rankings are “a joke”/”great”! How could you not rank him as number “one”/”eight”?! Kobe has “five rings”/”an atrocious shooting percentage,” for God’s sake! F*ck/Love this!
    P.S.
    Soccer is “not a real”/”the best” sport.

  • Red Star

    WTF SLAM WTF!!

  • VanCityBBall

    GET SHUT DOWN LAKESHOW!!!! i dont like lebron either but KD FTW

  • http://Slamonline Lewis

    Let the criticism begin. Some people need to remember a few things though.
    1. This list is based on opinion and is completely subjective. It can’t be wrong. We could all right our own list which would be different.
    2. Surely the debate is what makes sports, any sport so great. Why be so negative about other’s opinions.
    3. Slamonline is free. If you don’t like it, stop reading it. Some of us remember when slamonline was nothing but The Links written as and when Lang had the time. Happy days

  • Red Star

    This is BS Slam, pure BS!

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Well now that Lewis has told us to just nod our heads in agreement what do we have to comment about?

  • http://www.optimabbc.be Max

    LBJ>Dwight>DWade>DRose/KD>Kobe
    I just thought Kobe looked so old some games..

  • Triyo

    3 best NBA players are in fl, on 2 teams

  • kobe

    everybody testicle tuggin KD man. I know he’s a great scorer. But there is nothing that KD does that is much different from Carmelo. Liek I liek KD but ever since last summer when he was on team USA people need to calm down. The same people that love him will be criticizing him when he is in the lebron situation in the next couple years.

  • izzo

    Can we talk about how only active NBA players are included in this list? Such bullsh*t! I want to argue that Michael Jordan was good at basketball!

  • http://slamonline.com AlbertBarr

    Great write up.

  • http://nba.com GP23

    Kobe should of been number 2… I mean, he is still hungry for that 6th ring. He will go even harder next season to make up for that shambles against Dallas. Still the best scorer in the league imo (sorry melo, sorry KD).

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    See Kobe has to actually prove he can still do those things (go harder next season). ranking him #3 was optimistic as it is.

  • J.C.

    Bracing for sh!tstorm.
    Always knew he was gonna come in 3rd and it’s probably a fair ranking. Having said that, the Lakers don’t make it to the Finals once in 4 consecutive years and suddenly dude’s career is done? How quickly people forget…

  • http://slamonline.com everything

    co-sign Enigmatic at 1:32
    and Wade truly deserved the spot in the all nba 1st team last season too.

    great article by ryan jones. loved the use of your/our us/you in the article. adds so much style in prose.

    i think tyreke evans will be in the discussion of best SG in the league soon.

  • kobesBESTfriend

    i bet if coach k only could pick one player 2 play 4 the gold next summer betwwen kd,lbj,and mamba he’d take mamba hands down!!!slams rankings r horrible!!!an injustice if ive ever seen 1!!!

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Solid ranking. I’d prefer Dwight ahead of Kobe rather than KD though. Huge fan of KD. Top 5 of my favorite players in the L, but he isn’t better than KB yet. Kb even now if a better defender, equal scorer, better playmaker, proven winner. Overall good job though Slam. Durant has an argument for being a top 3 player, but 2 is a tad high.

  • Maniac

    Lol that’s probably the best write-up I’ve read all year. I was almost sure Durant was going to stay at #3 this year. Anyhow, Ryan made a lot of good points about Kobe. (I think SLAM is infatuated with how KD dominates the summers). If Kobe is sub-par this year, I’ll proudly throw him at the bottom of the top 10. He deserves this spot in my eyes right now. No arguing for me today.

  • http://Slamonline Lewis

    Did i say we all had to agree? I said why be so negative. And enjoy the debate

  • AD

    Durant will be no. 1 hahahahahah

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    I got two words for ya, Dwyane Wade!.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    What Happens if Pau Gasol has a better season then Kobe Bryant?

  • VanCityBBall

    lets face it kobe has past him prime/#1 spot. a long time ago actually i would take #8 Kobe over #24 Kobe any day. with that being said everybody is complaining that becuz of KDs offseason “practises” that changed his rank on the list, but rememeber he is the youngest scoring champ TWICE in a row and the kid is only gunna get better with every “practise”… as for LBJ i dont like the guy but i respect the fact that he might make #1

  • Maniac

    And Durant should not be top 5. That’s all I’m saying. Of the guys listed from 1-7, Durant has the worst case for being called a top 5 player.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    KD at this very moment is a better scorer than Kobe and the best in the L. You don’t lead the L in scoring twice before your 23rd birthday and not be a great scorer.

  • uli

    Great article, can only agree that he is not in his prime anymore. Still, I saw him in the regular season against the hornets and although he does not bring it over 48 mins, there are still moments, particularly fourth quarters where other player ( ….uhm…. Lebron) seem to be in role-player-mode. Still, no. 3 is probably a good place for KB24.

  • Maniac

    Lol if Pau has a better season than Kobe, then I think it’s clear where Kobe’s place is. (Seeing as how stubborn Kobe is and how passive Pau can be, I doubt it will happen, but nothing is impossible).

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Mike Brown said Kobe is goin to be playin at the top of the key more this year. And the Lakers will be running an offense similar to the Spurs in the early 2000′s – It’s pretty plausible.

  • Maniac

    Barely any of us are going to agree on an EXACT order, but can we at least come to a consensus that 4 of the top 5 should have included (listed alphabetically): Kobe Bryant, Dwight Howard, LeBron James, & Dwyane Wade?

  • http://www.nba.com Showtime

    As long as he wasn;t # 2. but i not liking Kd a the two( I can kinda see the arguement thou) ,But still too much because some of last season. Durant didn’t even look like the best on his OWN TEam @ times. Russ Carried some of the load in moments.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    It’s plausible in Mike Brown’s head but is it plausible in Kobe’s? I doubt it, no way Kobe allows Gasol to outshine and outscore him this season or in the foreseeable future.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    No more Phil. No more Triangle. No more easy mid-range jumpers off the high posts the Triangle gives you. Less chance’s in the post since Bynum and Pau will try to run the Spurs O. Yeah, his numbers are going to skyrocket…*rolls eyes*

  • http://gmail.com z

    Honestly (as a kobe fan), i got no problem with this ranking. I wouldn’t have even minded had he gone as low as 7th. because he IS having a tougher time doing his thing EACH night of the season now. And while i think it’s foolish to bet against a supertalent (which is what kobe is and always has been, regardless of what nbk’s stats tell you), you can’t argue that dwade, rose, dwight, all seem more likely to be consistently great next season, whereas with kobe i can see it just as likely that he’ll coast thru the reg season to save the legs for the playoffs. and while i do put my money on kob having a great season (or al least having no discernible drop off from last year), what matters was touched on by mr jones: that kob’s legacy is already set. He’s already gonna be remembered as a top 10, maybe top 5 player EVER, no matter how much arguing nbk or jtaylor do, they’ve already lost that argument (and really only isolate themselves when they make ridiculous claims that kobe’s worse than player x or ex-player y). So young $ (kob) ain’t gonna reach $’s level…that’s ok, neither is lebron, or anyone else currently in the league for that matter. As of now, young $ is officially the closest that we’ve ever seen to $. and that’s nothing for kobe fans to be ashamed of.

  • meloman2.0

    kd does nothing but score, and melo arguably does it better. How the hell r they so far apart in ranking?

  • tomtom

    Im a huge kobe fan and i think this is fair for how he performed last season, however i feel afta this ‘ground breaking’ knee surgery he may regain some quickness and ups. It worked for Rafa Nadal.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    The Lakers are going to monitor Kobe’s minutes. This isn’t like when Mike Brown had a 24 year old LeBron James, Kobe is going to have to pick his spots if he wants to be fresh for the playoffs. If winning is what matters to Kobe (and it supposedly is) it will be in his best interest to sit back.

  • jj

    bah?! WTH?! Lebron no 1?! f*ck!
    orang cemen begitu blm pnts diurutn pertama! ud dpt tim yg bgs aje msh cacat maenny, mental banci. msh perlu 2thn lg br ok, itupun klo tuh org sdr! Durant no 2?! sm oon ny nih org yg vote. analisany begimna sih?!

  • Maniac

    That’s very true. Notice I said it may not happen because of Kobe’s stubbornness. I think it’s in the Lakers best interest to run the offense through Pau AND Bynum, but don’t doubt that Kobe will have an integral part in the offense and still receive the most attention from the opposing team’s defenses. Who will score more? Idk, but Kobe will be asked to shoot a little less and facilitate a little more. (That doesn’t mean he will do it lol).

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Kobe hasn’t been young for about 3 years now.

  • http://slamonline.com Maurice Bobb

    Oh yeah, the comments will definitely reach over 1000 on this one…

  • http://slamonline.com Maurice Bobb

    And great write up Ryan

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I think Kobe scores more then Gasol. But I think its like 23-24PPG to 21-20 and 17-18 from Bynum. But when you factor in all the production on the boards and defensive end (and the idea that Gasol is going to have a lot more offense run through him, rather then towards him) he may have a “better” season then Bryant. In the same respect as Dwight Howard had a better season then Kevin Durant. (extreme example but you get the picture)

  • http://www.nba.com Showtime

    lol eboy, Nall he hasn’t been that since #8 young kobe lol,,

  • http://www.slamonline.com UNFROZEN CAVEMAN LAWYER

    KOBE IS A GOOD BASKETBALLER. SHOOTS ALOT, SOMETIMES OFTEN GOES IN FOR POINT. WON MANY WITH SHAQ AS BIGGER MAN. KNEES ARE OLDER, HEAD CRAZIER, MOUTH DIRTIER, JAW JUTTIER. KOBE NOW GETS OLD.

  • bigmike100

    OMGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!! KD TOP 2!!!!!!!! PLAYERS N DA LEAGUE DIS IS OUTRAGEOUS HE DOES NOTHING BUT SCORE OMG SLAM REALLY DIS CRAY (JAY-Z VOICE. ND HE NOT DA LEADER OF HIS TEAM *COUGH RUSSELL. HE NOT EVEN DA BEST SCORER N DA LEAGUE HE NOT DA BEST AT ANYTHING HE DOES BUT YALL GNE HVE HIM AS DA 2ND BEST PLAYER N DA LEAGUE (BRON BETTA B NO.1) SMH

  • http://nba.com GP23

    I would love to see Kobe drop another 81 type performance… lol, I know it’s not in the best interests of the team, but still, it would be awesome. And i say that because I think Kobe is still the only plyer capable of getting 70+ points in a game, even at his “ripe old age.” Can we at least all agree that Kobe leads the NBA in “being robbed of most MVPs in history”???

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    Farmer jones, I believe the name change is official, with some sense and reasoning. When espn ranked mamba at 7, I was floored, when slams list reached 4 before a snake sighting, I was equally perplexed, but I guess that is the enigma of one of the greatest players in the world. Nah, he’s not always going to get 10 types of nasty on okafor, but he still can. And hell maybe the German engineered game winner knows something we don’t.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    no that would be Shaq

  • http://offthebackboard.wordpress.com/ Off The Backboard

    Beautiful write-up, terrible ranking. Kobe deserves to be about 7-10 on this list, as each of the players below him produce at a greater and more efficient rate than he does. It would be like putting 2010 KG in the top 10…it just doesn’t make sense. Kobe is my favourite player in the league, but like Jones said, his time is done. He’s no longer a discussion piece, much like you couldn’t really hate Reggie Miller after about 2002. I hope the Lakers bounce back next year and he proves everyone wrong, but until then, I have to vehemently refute this ranking. Dwayne Wade should have been much higher.

  • Maniac

    I see what you’re saying nbk. Agreeable. Those ppg don’t look to far off (once again only if Kobe does not explode this year for 25+). I agree with the Gasol assertion, but don’t forget that you have to take into account that Pau can sometimes b**** himself out of the game. I don’t think Pau has the mental ability to lead a championship team (especially with someone like Kobe behind them). I may be wrong, but Pau is where Dirk was a a few years ago. Great, great player, but doesn’t have the mental toughness. Some games, Pau looks like he doesn’t wants the ball and play hot potato with the Laker guards. Also take into account that Kobe might be facilitating more so his assists (though i don’t like using stats) may increase. It’s a lot to think about. We’ll see how well the Lakers respond to Mike Brown’s proposed system.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    @GP23 – I think Shaq should’ve had at least 3 MVPs

  • http://offthebackboard.wordpress.com/ Off The Backboard

    Kobe was robbed of the MVP (in the true sense of the word) in 2006 and 2007. Essentially, he would have won MVPs all three years of his absolute prime (2006-2008) if the voting had been based on how much a player actually means to his team and not just wins and losses.

  • Maniac

    And I only think Shaq got robbed in 05.

  • Maniac

    Kobe was “robbed” in 06 and 07.

  • http://shinefluid@aol.com yada

    Kobe wasnt the 3rd best player in the league last year and he wont be the 3rd best player in the league next!! this has more to do with the name and attraction of “Kobe”. because his name has been associated with the best for so long naturally u think of him at the top when you’re ranking players. but that just isnt the case anymore

  • http://nba.com GP23

    I agree that Shaq deserved at least another… Kobe I think, was robbed of it in ’06, ’07, possibly ’03, and you could argue ’10, but that one is a long shot.

  • Maniac

    Enigmatic – at least 3? what years?

  • http://www.nba.com Showtime

    Yep that awards goes to Shaq( should MVPS) in the year of Malone 2nd in the lockseason. and team ducan 1rst one in 02. Robbed

  • http://slamonline.com tina

    Thoroughly enjoyed reading Z’s comment. Gonna be sad when Kobe retires in a few years.

  • http://redoftoothandclaw.ca/ niQ

    82 comments already. Damn. Nice write up btw.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Shaq got robbed in 98-99 (lockout season, went to Malone), 00-01 (Iverson won it, and I don’t like talking against that but Shaq was better that season), and 04-05 (Nash’s first MVP award) – imo obviously

  • Bradrick

    I’m appalled than DWade was ranked fifth. For shame Slam, for shame.

  • Bradrick

    I’m appalled that DWade was ranked fifth when he should have been second. For shame Slam, for shame.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Well, in ’95 it should’ve been either Shaq or Olajuwan instead of David Robinson.
    In 2001 it coulda gone either way with him or AI, not complaining bout AI getting it though.
    In 2002 I woulda given it to Shaq over TD.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Nash deserved the 06 award, I don’t understand how Kobe got robbed, his team won 47 games, was 3rd in their division. Just cuz Kobe scored a bunch of points he should have got MVP? Nash had Phoenix with the best record in the league, without Amar’e Stoudemire, (& Joe Johnson.)

  • Sparty’s Law

    Best write up yet. Great piece, Ryan.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Oh yeah, the lockout season too.
    And nevermind, the Rockets were average (in the refular season) in ’95, so I woulda given it to Shaq.
    At 22 years old, he had 29.3 and 11.4 in 79 games, led the Magic to 57 wins and eventually the finals.
    The Magic had only existed for like 6 years at that point.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Shaq was a toss up in his first season with the Heat too for MVP consideration.

  • Maniac

    MVP’s are subjective because I think LeBron deserved MVP this year too. Sometimes there are two really really good candidates. They clearly got it right when Shaq got it in 2000. Duncan deserved MVP just as much in 2001 as AI did, though AI earned it. They got it right with Duncan in 02 & 03. KG deserved it in 04, but Duncan deserves a nice mention. In 05, 06, & 07 were stupid. Shaq was robbed in 05 & Kobe was in 06 and 07. Kobe finally got his well earned in 08, even though that’s the year I fell in love with CP3′s game. 09 was close for Kobe, but I think they did right by giving it to LeBron. 2010 was good for LeBron, though Kobe had debate. Rose deserved it this year and I like to give LeBron honorable mention.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    And I’ll take one back.
    TD beasted in ’02 and was healthy.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Matic in 02 Duncan went for 25.5 12.7 3.7 2.5 on 50% shooting. That was his best professional season as a pro

  • argonaut

    cosign maniac @ 2:05

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Beat you to it, Soop.
    I took that one back upon further review.
    That season was LOVELY for TD. I musta forgot…

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    See you have to be on a team that gets homecourt in the playoffs to win MVP. That is basically a pre-requisite at this point. Kobe never proved he could make bad teams really good like other guys with MVP awards (James, Nash) Duncan & Shaq were never put in the situation and benefit from it.

  • Maniac

    That lockout season was crazy. I’m not going to toss that Shaq’s way so easily. Anything before 2000, I don’t think Shaq was robbed. Good debate though. I’m not a big fan of Shaq getting anything after 2000 and before 2005, because he was fat, lazy, and didn’t care for the team as much as people made it seem. He used the season to get in shape for the playoffs. That’s not MVP material.

  • http://www.nba.com Showtime

    Like i said the AI earned that one in O1 but that 1rst team Duncan in 02 is Suspect , the Lakers were the better team And won the Chip. And iN that lockout year Malone lost in the 2nd round to Portland. But in 05 Shaq was on the decline so NASH Earned that ONE too.

  • http://slamonline.com Ben Osborne

    Ryan is the best. I respect the people who think Kobe is too high (I had him #4), but if we put him 7 or 8 like some have said above, I think our site might have been broken. I still talk to some pretty savvy fans who would take him #1. I’ll now start working on my upcoming write-up, with Ryan having set the bar pretty high.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    He was winning titles in that time frame Maniac. Fat Lazy and Beating the Sh*t out of everyone.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    And lol @ soop for “that was his best professional season as a pro”.
    So what was his best professional season as an amature?

  • Maniac

    LeBron wasn’t on a bad team. People diss the Cavs like they do the Bulls today. That team was based on rebounding and defense. It wasn’t a bad team. Nash wasn’t on a bad team. You kidding me? He had a lineup of STAT, Marion, & Joe Johnson at one time. They just sucked at defense and scored a billion points.

  • http://www.nba.com Showtime

    BUt I Not saying Duncan didn’t earned it in 02, but MVP are mostly looked at as the best player on the best team most of the time.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    haha sure did Matic my bad

  • rfennekohl

    Sorry,

    projecting that somebody who has an experimental treatment for his knee will be the third best player in the NBA is just too optimistic!

    Hopefully he will be able to train regulary with his teammates and show that last years exit was just an accident.

    But I don’t except it.

  • Maniac

    He also had one of the best perimeter players in the league by his side. If I remember correctly, Shaq was going around calling Kobe the best player in the league at the time. Kobe scored in the high 20s every season after 2000, so don’t make it seem like the Lakers had 1 MVP, even though Shaq was clearly their best player from 2000-2002. (03 & 04 Kobe started to take over).

  • http://hoopistani.blogspot.com hoopistani

    Kobe Bryant is NOT better than Dwyane Wade, Derrick Rose, or Dirk Nowitzki. Not anymore.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    The second MVP award for Nash, the only one he deserved, the starting lineup was, Steve Nash, Raja Bell, Shawn Marion, Boris Diaw and Kurt Thomas. That is a HORRIBLE team. Especially consider Barbosa (who was good off the bench), Tim Thomas (hahahaha), & James Jones (yeah, James Jones) were the only people on the bench with a pulse. That team was terrible. — And if you don’t think cleveland was terrible then idk what they hell your talking about. That was basically the same team last season they were just missing 1 guy if they weren’t horrible do you think they would have lost 63 games?

  • Bimmer

    Durant!

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Shaq called Dwyane Wade the best player he had ever been a teammate of Maniac. smh, you believe Shaq? Did you know his middle name is “your gullible as hell”

  • Maniac

    In the 1975-1976 season, Kareem won MVP with a losing record (40-42) and the Lakers finished fourth place in the conference. That best player on best team crap can only go so far.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    LeBron wasn’t on a bad team in Cleveland?
    Word????????????

  • Maniac

    *not conference. I meant to say 4th place in the DIVISION

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Perfect writeup. Respect for that.
    I had an argument with my homie last night that’s kind of random but that involved Bean.
    It was about whether Kobe is truly a better overall player than Scottie Pippen AND what would have happened with that 94-95 Bulls team if you replaced Pippen with Kobe and told Kobe to lead that team sans Jordan.
    We also argued the issue considering the team using the triangle and not using the triangle as their office.
    In the end, my homie thought Pippen wsa the better choice no matter what. I rode with Kobe. But, it was a good way to consider Kobe’s talents, strengths and weaknesses as a team leader.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Maniac, you just give me a stat from 36 years ago? DO you not know what “at this point” means?

  • http://www.nba.com Showtime

    yea maniac put when they started to defer to Kobe in those years(03 04), Spurs started to take over..thou

  • Maniac

    @nbk Being a terrible team and being a terrible team without an important player is different. The Cavs were built around and for LeBron so obviously when LeBron is gone, the middle puzzle piece is missing. They couldn’t connect because Bron made them connect. The Bulls are not great without Rose, but that does not mean that they are not a good team. It’s a difference. I see you’re talking specifically about the 06 season for Nash. OK yeah I agree that team was not so great, but I wouldn’t call that a bad team. The Suns were one of the best teams in the league at the time and it was not JUST because of Nash (even though he was their leader).

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I’m goin to lunch. Keep the discussion interesting in here – Allen if you still around when I get back I’ve got a POV on that subject, want your thoughts.

  • Maniac

    nbk I’m not saying just because Shaq said it, that means it’s true. I’m saying that Shaq knew he wasn’t alone.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Also, more of you bastards need to join the Slam NBA 2K12 League on PS3 in order for it to be fun.
    And MAX owes me one because the only reason I took the Hawks and not the Grizzlies is because I respected his claim on them and if he doesn’t play in the League I will be HEATED since I don’t know how to change my team selection.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    The Lakers were supposedly built around Bryant. He just couldn’t get them too win. Kobe has proven he needs another All-Star caliber player, he even throws fits without them. THere is no way on earth you’ll ever convince me he deserved an MVP award in the those seasons just because of his individual brilliance. Most Valuable and Best are different.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    The Cavs team LeBron won 50 games with in the year of Nash’s second MVP was way more putrid than Nash’s team, and LeBron won that many games putting up 30,7 and 7.
    That was his MVP and he lost it because voters said “He’s young, he’s got time.”
    That is the only reason.

  • Maniac

    Matic – You really think the Cavs were a bad team that last couple of years? Like the Bulls, they just lacked that #2 scoring guy. I’m certain the Cavs would have made the finals in 09 (most definitely), and maybe 2010 if they had that #2 scoring guy.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    CO-SIGN ALLENP about that 2k12 league!!!
    And how the hell have the Heat not been chosen yet???
    Allen, me and you got a match coming up, btw.

  • Maniac

    @AllenP – Quit the league and rejoin to get a different team

  • Maniac

    @nbk – history is history man lol. Just saying, it happened for Kareem.

  • http://www.optimabbc.be Max

    AllenP, I’ll join the league tomorrow lol.

  • http://www.optimabbc.be Max

    And I got a couple of guys on my ps3 that will be intrested in joining the league I think.

  • Maniac

    Allenp – Just curious. How so did your friend argue that Pippen is a better overall player than Kobe?

  • http://www.nba.com Showtime

    @ matic i didnt cop them i out of respect on 2k12 but didt get deron and them nets!

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    I’ll take the Heat.

  • Maniac

    @Enigmatic – Nobody wants to play with the Super Friends lol.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Word, E?
    You down? That would be dope.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I assumed Eboy was going to take them, so I avoided them.
    I took the Hawks, but I really wanted to take either the Nets or Bucks. But the Nets are PUTRID outside of Deron, and the Bucks have Brandon Jennings as their starting one and he can’t shoot.
    I figured with the Hawks they are good enough to be competitive, plus nobody really likes them on here who comments a lot now.
    And my homie said Pippen is the better overall player.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    His argument was that Pippen was on a totally different level as a defender, rebounder and passer. While Kobe had the obvious large scoring advantage, Pippen could still score in his opinion, AND, and this was key, Pippen made his teammates better.
    It’s still questionable if Kobe does that.

  • http://www.optimabbc.be Max

    Brandon Jennings can’t shoot?
    Everybody one 2k12 plays like Ray Allen..

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    It would have been cool to do a fantasy draft though.
    My brother and his friends used to do fantasy draft on Live and reconfigure all of the rosters and then play like that.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    That team that Nash had knew exactly who they were as a team. Nothing changed when Johnson left and Stat got injured because Diaw was the most improved player in the L. Bell was knocking down 3′s like Ray Ray, and D’n up everyone as good as Bowen ever did. Barbosa off the bench was 6th man of the year material if he didn’t win it. James Jones did his usual thing of knicking 3′s down. Kobe’s bad looking team had no idea who they were and all played very unintelligent ball. Do you guys know what the team looked like when Kobe only won 46 games in 05/06? LO was by FAR the 2nd best player on the team. The next best player on the team….Devean George, maybe Smuch Parker….. I mean saying that Kobe never proved he could not win with a poor cast of players is the biggest BullSh*t ever. LbJ’s bad teams consist of players like a solid but not ALL Star Zydrunas Ilgauskas, a solid Larry Hughes, Anderson Varejao, Ben Wallace, Drew Gooden, Shaq, Joe Smith, Wally Szczerbiak, Delonte West, Donyell Marshall, Mo Williams, Antawn Jamison. I’m not saying that this is a Championship worthy squad, but to say that LbJ was doing work with scrubs is ridiculous when you look at KB’s team in 05/06. LbJ should get all the credit he deserves(which is allot!) for what he did with a average to above average team, but lets stop pretending his team was a bunch of wandering zombies.

  • Red Star

    Your still #1 to me Kobe!!! Lakers 4 Life!

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I thought about the fantasy draft but someone would come away ticked off that their favorite player wasn’t availble or their team sucks or whatever.
    Plus, if the CPU teams got all the top picks we’d ALL be p*ssed.
    I was surprised JTaylor took the Magic, but have a feeling Howard will lead the league in points per game.

  • jayb

    i am looking forward to seeing kobe with fresh legs!! i guess it starts sunday! as per lebron..not hating but he is is pippen on steriods. gotta agree with stephen A!!! i did not want pippen taking the last shot and i dont want lebron taking it either. you can say what you want about physically most gifted but at the end of the game..the numero uno should be the one i want the ball in this hands. if he proves it this year..great. from what i saw in the finals i do not want him anywhere near a ball with under minutes left..period!!! durant is a beast! hey if bron proves on the big stage he can carry the team i will be the frist to congratulate. no problem with that!

  • http://www.optimabbc.be Max

    Also think the problem with fantasy draft is that sometimes when people miss the draft and they get a bad team they just quit.

  • Maniac

    @Allenp – All true except I think Kobe’s rebounding and passing is underrated. No doubt Pippen was superior in those area though. I could make the argument that he is also the superior defender, rebounder, and passer opposed to Jordan as well, but this isn’t about him. Kobe does make his teammates better, maybe not to the degree of a Jordan or Pippen, but he does. Pau imo is a better player than he was in Memphis and I’ve also noticed that he was a nobody until he got to the Lakers. I can see where that is questionable about Kobe though.

  • JEr dawg

    Hard to argue against results and look at how hard it was to play with Jordan. People adjusted their games around these great players and in turn resulted in championships. Kobe might be #3 on this list but he’s #1 in this generation. People can keep on hating if they want but Don’t deny him being one of the best ever to do it. Great write up.

  • Maniac

    Enigmatic- Once playoffs come, if I don’t make it to the finals, you better lol. One of my teams got to be there.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    In actuality, TD deserves to be “#1 in this generation” based on his dominance on the offensive and defensive end.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    No guarantees, Maniac. I usually play the CPU at Pro difficulty. lol

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Also, is 82 games too much?
    I thought it might be dope to have a shorter season, so we could have multiple seasons, let younger players improve, older players decline, new players in the draft, etc.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    I need to get the info, Enig, but I’ll be with it.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    Sh*t, just name it the “Lockout Season” and make it 50 games.

  • http://www.optimabbc.be Max

    Enigmatic what about 48 games?

  • Maniac

    airs – I proposed a game for tonight at 8:30 eastern. If that’s not good let me know when you wanna play.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    It’s “SLAM Commenters”.
    Lame, I know.

  • Riggs

    hahahahahahaha….excellent.

  • flash

    shoudve put kobe at the #1 spot if ya’ll made him stay and waited for him to appear this long in the rankings, y settle at 3? psshhh…
    lebron and durant really? and KD at the no.2 spot? 2nd best? incredible!
    i know how to beat those guys, LBJ ima keep the game close and kill him when he falters at the end, i doubt the man cannot even press a button when it says finish him on mortal kombat!
    and KD that’s easy ima make him play defense all game until he tires his ass out, take him to the post and overpower that skinny skeleton of his! now kobe, he’s different. i know hes getting old but still let’s be real here… that fool is crazy about basketball! and he’s got the look in his eyes that he aint goin down no way! whenever i see him play he always scares me the most coz i know he’s gonna deliver most of the time like mike.

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    I want to play, too. But wait y’all are all on PS3, right?

  • Maniac

    Up to you Matic. I’m about to play my first CPU game lol

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    And I guess Ryan is right…err Farmer. If this is one or two years ago, there are 700+ comments by now.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Exactly, I think 82gms may be too much considering that only a handful of people are willing to join the league.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    PS3, Nicolas.
    I think nbk is down to play peeps on 360 though.
    He said he’d whoop anyone’s a** playing with the Raptors.
    Cause DeMar DeRozan is a BEAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Kadavour

    Allen, your buddy would lose that argument against me. Scottie averaged 20/game 4 years out of 13 (i stopped counting after his first season with Portland). He’s an EXCELLENT 2nd fiddle, a natural born Robin to any Batman you could find, but definitely not top dog material. Young Rasheed was more influential to an offense than he was. Pip was probably the most versatile defender ever, but he didn’t have what it takes to lead a team to championships.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    OK, so let’s agree on how many games the season should be then.
    And I think I’ll have to delete the league and recreate it to change the number of games in a season, so everyone will have to rejoin.
    It will be the same information unless for some reason they won’t let me use it again after I delete.
    And I don’t get home until about 10 PM Eastern time so any changes won’t be made until after that.

  • Maniac

    Alright just let us know. Keep it on superstar though

  • http://www.optimabbc.be Max

    I meant 58 games*

  • Kadavour

    please post details for 2k12 on 360

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    I hope your PS3 league goes all Blackberry on you all.

  • #6marjons

    you know what? well done ryan. well done.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    i am cool with 82 games because there is no way in hell I would have chosen the Hawks if I knew we were playing multiple seasons. Their roster is all screwed up.

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/category/blogs/farmer-jones/ Ryan Jones

    I don’t play video games.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Screw it, we’re keeping the 82 games, damnit.
    Allen, you’re really putting Al Horford on the trading block??

  • http://slamonline.com Ben Osborne

    I don’t play video games either but I think it is AWESOME that you guys play in a SLAM commenters league.

  • chingy

    Best piece so far. Great job.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Young Rasheed was more influential to an offense than he was.
    _________________________
    Wait…what??

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    Enig and nbk go look at my last like 8 Tweets and make your day more pleasant.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Those tweets actually made me frown because my workplace has blocked youtube :(

  • Kadavour

    Portland’s 2000 squad featured Rasheed as their primary scorer, NOT Pippen.

  • SKITTLESO5

    Durant is going to be no 1

  • http://redoftoothandclaw.ca/ niQ

    So this is how the comments go 500+. It’s cause you guys are talking video games on here…

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Pippen really WAS on a different level as a defender, rebounder and passer…and teammate.
    I think that team with Kove would’ve had similar results to how it came about with Pip, though.
    No title, decent playoff run.

  • D12FSU

    Wow that right up thoroughly convinced me that Kobe should be ahead of Dwight…CMON SLAM YOU GOTTA BE KIDDING ME

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    Yesterday we talked fetish porn, I have no idea why we aren’t all still on that thread.

  • http://nba.com GP23

    @Enigmatic.. I would join the 2k league, but I can’t even connect my PS3 to the internet..

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Oh, you mean when Pippen was 34 and Rasheed was in his prime.
    Got it.

  • Maniac

    Matic wtf! lol i had started my first game and when I saw that you were going to do a new league I quit the game. Lol that a lost to the warriors. SMH

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Pippen at 34: 12.5, 6.4, 5.4
    Sheed at 34: 12.0, 7.4, 1.4
    And a young(er) Rip Hamilton was the Piston’s primary scorer that year (’09 Pistons), NOT Sheed.
    Fail to see how ANY of this is relevant in a Kobe/Pippen debate…

  • http://Slamonline.com Caboose

    Yeah guys, anyone wanna get a league going on the 360? Also, anybody else find it funny that the majority of these comments are not about Kobe? I think we’ve all just gotten apathetic about this list at this point.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    HA!
    Maniac is 0-1!
    My bad though, for real…

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Ok I’m back, I’ll check those in just a minute Flem —- Allen – (imo) Pippen was better then Kobe for every team that already has a “go-to” scorer. Kobe would be the better player all-time (imo) because you could go further with him as your best player then that of Pippen as far as I see it. But if you have a team with a great/good scorer, (Iverson, McAdoo, Bernard King) Scottie Pippen is the better player. He fills every other whole a team can have, better then just about everyone in league history

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    I’m pissed that Mitch Hedburg doesn’t have any unreleased work that has leaked since Ryan’s total upheaval of the SLAM commenting system.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    that was me. F WORD. Slam & My’s bad Lake

  • http://nba.com GP23

    … so back to Kobe

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Caboose, I’m down for a league, If I’m the commish though we doin a fantasy draft.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Yeah, I’m looking for a legit point guard and a decent big. Anybody looking to trade, get at me.
    I’m not giving him away, but out of Joe Johnson, Al Horford and Josh Smith, I’d rather lose Al Horford. I almost traded him to the Bucks for Bogut and Stack Jack, but decided it still wouldn’t solve the point problem. I’m willing to start Jeff Teague, but I’d prefer not to have to do that.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Fleming lol Alton Lister, the only reason I know his name is because of that blister.

  • http://Slamonline.com Caboose

    I’ve got no problem with fantasy draft.

  • cjames

    Kobe averaged virtually 25 5 and 5 while playing about 4 to 5 mins less than Lebron, Wade, Durant, and rose probably of course his scoring avg would be down but his efficenty was up, what i wanna know is how is a person who was in 3 of the last for nba finals won two of the last 3 and two of the last 3 finals mvps 1 of the last 4 mvps last years all star game mvp and once again 1st team all nba and all defense not number 1??? i love kevin durant but he’s not a top 2 player in this league yet the only two players that can come close to relenquishing kobe’s crown his Bron and Wade and yet they still arent there Kobe is number 1… wrong again Slam

  • http://www.slamonline.com Megatron

    I’d be so down to join that league if it was for 360. Damn I gotta get a ps3.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Allen, go Horford for Conley and Gasol. (Conley is actually pretty good in 2k12)

  • paul

    If Dirk isn’t number one on this list, then this list means nothing. You cannot really have a clearer example of one great player pretty much leading his team to a championship essentially by himself, and yet that seems to count for nothing in your book. So, whatever it is you base this list on, it’s really all just bullshit.

  • Travis

    R fuckin serious look kobe should be #1 y because u have to get rings in the NBA and show up every year. So what I bet who ever be #1 will not win a ring this year just watch I think a lot of people don’t want to give kobe his prompts in what he do. The NBA is a hard league to play in because every body is good in the league but. Just being good is not where it stops u have to get rings think about it there is a lot of players who played in the league but u know what seperate the good from the best yeah u right it takes championships and any body that love and know basketball know this is true so. So what it has to be Lebron or kd they both r good players but they want rings and that what seperate kobe from Lebron I mean dam when the heats lost against Dallas in the finals every body was talkin bad about Lebron. But it is wht it is but age all know like I said u may hate kobe or like him u still have to get rings. And no matter how he got it he got it. Let’s be for real man lets be for real. U can hate on him all u want but look what kobe done in the league.#1 kobe 2 Lebron good but has not won a ring once he starts to do that then I can put him up there but I think being the best is about progress #3 durant hard work beats talent real talk. Fix this shit real hoopers know what I mean.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I’ll put a 360 league together tonight.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    I’ll trade you Boozer for Horford. :D

  • Maniac

    Speaking of Kobe. It seems that the 2K12 Lakers revolve around him. Quick plays when Bynum is not on the floor and the ball is not in Kobe’s hands: Kobe post-up, Kobe get open, Kobe cut to basket… Wtf. Other teams have different options for different players.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    How bout Gilbert Arenas and Brandon Bass for Al Horford? Sounds like a hell of a “deal” to me.

  • blackthougth

    so the top 2 players in the league have – uh, zero rings? no doubt that lebrons no 1, but stop dissin kobe!(he had shaq, blah, blah, wade had shaq either, and lebron got wade & bosh, and still`have a hard time winnin`5) so give the man the respect he deserves!

  • http://www.slamonline.com Megatron

    @nbk, yeah ill join for sure

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    I just don’t know why Nic Fleming is struggling in 2k12. In 2k11 he was averaging 50 points a game on like 15 dunks.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Maniac those quickplays give you the best option at each individual thing.. Kobe has the highest tendency and attributes for posting up, scoring in the paint, and scoring in an iso. So he is the quick play option for all of those things.

  • http://slamonline.com Tae

    Hey GP23 we meet again, lol. I agree with u this time. My favorite player is no. 3, thought no. 2 but i’ll take 3. But Durant thou????……..come on SLAM

  • Travis

    I hope kobe see this shit for he can act a ass this year when he get another one people really gone hate him. It’s about rings to be a great basketball player enuff said.

  • http://google J-Ro

    Hmmm….so if there is no season, i wonder how slam would re-do their list for next year?

  • Travis

    Kobe #1 no need to argue get off the b.s. get rings case close.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Man, I’m gonna suck in this league…I don’t ever run plays. lol

  • cp3

    well done ryan

  • Maniac

    Oh ok I see nbk

  • http://slamonline.com Tae

    I noticed that too Maniac. But i understand y. He even brings tha ball up tha floor when he’s out there instead of Fish

  • T-Money

    Damn, no love for a xbox 360 SLAM league?

  • manu

    Shaq > kobe

    3 finals mvps > 2 finals mvps

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I rolled with Kobe over Pippen because I felt that Bulls team was set as far as role players and with the triangle those players weren’t dependent on their best guy to get their buckets. That’s why Phil implemented it.
    So, I think that team only needed a knockdown lights out scorer. And Kobe is one of the best in the business at that.
    I actually think they get to the ECF with Kobe after upsetting the Knicks. Now I don’t know if they get to the Finals because Kukoc really wasn’t built to be a number two player, but it’s possible.

  • manu

    dirk is #1 btw not even close

    who can guard dirk…kobe got his azz shut down by jkidd

    lebron, durant, wade, bosh, no one on earth can stop dirk

  • tony

    Why is everyone so in love with Lebron James?? Why is everyone so quick to forget about his playoffs collapse this past year? Heck, the past 2 years?? But yet, Kobe has been consistently dominating for years now and with this added rest he is getting from the Lockout, there’s no telling what he will do when the season starts!! You guys are so quick to give the best player alive title to Lebron who hasn’t done anything!! I think D Wade is a better scorer, defender and rebounder than LBJ! I think Durant is more of killer than LBJ is, but yet since LBJ is athletic and built like a Mac truck we hang on his jock like he is the best ever! I can guarentee you this, he won’t win 5 championships like the Bean has. He doesn’t have the killer instinct and drive to will his team to victory. He was outdone by Big Dirk that took it upon himself to will his team to victory. He was standing in the corner hiding from the ball all series. Le Choke!!! KB24, the greatest player since #23!!

  • Maniac

    Yo Matic I’ll take Boozer off your hands if you can offer me a deal with Deng included lol

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    nbk’s starting one, T-Money

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Maniac, when you actually run the sets with the Lakers are they running the triangle every time? Or are they actually running a high-low? I haven’t played with the Lakers at all, just against them, and people online don’t tend to run any plays.

  • http://slamonline.com Ben Osborne

    LOL @ Nicolas Fleming’s 4:20 comment.

  • MLK4Life

    No need to argue about Kobe. Like Ryan said, his legacy is set if he never picks up a basketball again. All he’s doing now is adding to his Hall of Fame career. Don’t really care about LeBron or Durant or anyone who’s better than him right now. He’s not thinking about being #1 in the league anymore. He can sit at the table with Jordan, Magic and Bird. While some of you have hernias arguing about it, he’s looking at his five rings and wanting more. Kobe Bean Bryant, the second best two guard of all time.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Megatron

    @nbk, superstar difficulty? I didn’t have a 360 till a couple months ago so im still learning how to play these games, its my first 2k game so hof might be a bit hard. Doesn’t matter if thats what everyone wants to do though, im down for anything

  • http://slamonline.com Tae

    Me either Enig. Till 2k12. Its actually better to run plays. My main ones are P Mamba Iso, (i play with tha Lakers, u know lol) and Pinch LAL Iso for Kobe

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    It’ll be on superstar cuz of the whole online/lag issue. Shot timing on HOF online is basically impossible.

  • Maniac

    Depends on who I’m playing nbk. I tend to play through Bynum more than Pau because Pau shys away from the post (like in real life lol). If the other team has a good defensive wing I run high-low more so and let Kobe isolate at other times. Otherwise I’m going through the triangle.

  • http://slamonline.com Tae

    @nbk, yea they run tha triangle most of tha time. About 95% of their plays is

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    ok Tae thanks that’s what I was wondering.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Hey Max, I’m willing to trade Horford for Conley and Gasol if you’re interested. Let me know what’s up.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Also how do I schedule games and stuff in the League? I have no idea this whole thing works because I never do Association on the game.

  • Maniac

    *typo – That didn’t make sense lol. I rarely do high low. I let Kobe iso and or dump it down in the post to Bynum. I set fish and the sfs up in different places depending on the defensive wings.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    If you had to build a team around Kobe Bryant or Larry Bird, who would you build your team around, and why? I feel like that is one of the best comparisons as a centerpiece there is among the all-timers

  • Maniac

    Pretty much everything is triangle though.

  • http://slamonline.com Tae

    @ Maniac i Iso Kobe against small 2 guards like Ellis, ect. Or a mismatch

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    You should take the 98-99 Spurs playbook and apply it too the Lakers. Kobe will still have plays that can be run solely for him, and he will still be the quick plays option guy. But your offense will probably be more relevant to this season.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Damn…Kobe or Bird…wow.
    That’s a tough one…I have an hour long meeting to attend right now, so I’ll think about it while in the meeting and jotting down “notes”. Lol

  • Maniac

    Good question nbk. I’ll answer that when I get back. My answer is Bird though. I’d build around Bird before Jordan too, but I’ll explain when I get back.

  • Maniac

    Yeah. The thing about video games vs real life is that it’s so hard to get buckets for anyone else other than Kobe, Bynum, & Gasol lol. Odom is good here and there, but outside of that, everyone else is a spot up shooter when I play with that Lakers lol. Fastbreak points, open 3′s, and last second shots are the only time those guys get points for me lol.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Seriously good question nbk. Dizzam. Never really thought of that one but it’s like a complete tie for me. Maybe Kobe just because of defense. That’s literally the only reason I can come up with for Kobe vs Bird though.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Bird. Better passer, rebounder, shooter, underrated scorer, great post-game, decent defender and possessed one of the highest basketball IQs of all-time.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/officerbarbrady what

    I am a big KD fan and even I think top 2 is too high for him.

  • http://Slamonline.com Caboose

    I think I’d take Bird cause I think it’s easier to build a team around a forward than a guard. The rebounding that Legend provided was huge too. Bean and Larry both need specific players around them to win rings, but I think that Bird could play with a broader selection of players. Bird it is.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    I lean towards Bird because he is more of a team player/leader. And when he had it going he could do whatever he wanted. “three-pointer trainers lap” (omg, smh) – But raw skills/athletic ability I’d go with Kobe. Basically I give the edge to Bird just because of his brain, that’s it, and barely

  • JoeMaMa

    Maybe this question has been asked/answered, but what value does winning have on the rankings? Because Kobe likely won’t be the 3rd best player by stats. But if he’s 5th in the league in scoring, leads his team to 55+ wins and a trip to the conf. finals/finals, or a championship, which certainly isn’t out of the realm of possibilities, then this ranking can be justified, no? I guess SLAM’s betting on that kind of year from him. Kobe at 3 makes enough sense.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Um, I don’t find that to be a tough choice at all.
    BIRD.
    A 6’10′ forward with range out to the three point line, who loves passing and rebounding and leading versus an incredible scoring two guard who seems to hate most people…
    Easy choice.

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    Caboose, please explain building around a forward being easier? I’ll give you Bird, Dirk and Duncan, but over that same time span I’ll take Wade, Bryant, Jordan and push on the Celtics and Pistons.

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    I mean if anything is easier to build around, it is a Center, but after that I think it’s your 2-guards.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    When you say it like that Allen lol

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Did you read what I said (as Lakeshow) about the Kobe & Scottie Pippen comparison AP?

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Yeah, I’d go with Bird too.

  • John Hopkins

    I think you’re understating Kobe and not giving him the respect he deserves. You’re talking about THE greatest player of our generation. The man who scord 81 points, the man who has more rings in the past decade than any other player. Kobe is on a another level than LeBron, Wade, Durant all these guys. He is just mentally on a different level. And to say Kobe will NEVER be better than Jordan is a little bit of an exageration. A debate can be made, Kobe is the most skilled player in the history of the game, he has more offensive moves than jordan or anyone. There the best from two eras and they rank in the top 10 no doubt. Appreciate the last years you have of Kobe because he is the last true player with the utmost sincere passion for the game. The new generation is all athletic ability. Kobe is the last guy who has fundamentals, will, skill, and is extremely athletic. Kobe may not have the stats to compete with Jordan, but NBA legends understand that stats just tell part of the story, the same reason why lebron isn’t the greatest. People don’t understand Kobe is the last one standing, he’s still performing at a superstar level after 15 seasons all the other best players are in their 20s, this man does not get the credit he deserves. Jordan will always be the Greatest NBA player in peoples eyes because of his impact. But Kobe is in that conversation.

  • http://LAKERS NHELLY

    HOLY COW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! KD AND LBJ NO RING? KOBE HAS 5.COMMON SLAM.ARE YOU KODDING ME? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Who would you rather build around in – TODAY’S – NBA, Shaq or Hakeem?

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    That is easy, Bird. Much more versatile, even as a worse defender Bird was the far more advanced basketball-player when compared to Kobe (and pretty much every other guy to ever lace them up…).

  • http://Slamonline.com Caboose

    Nicolas, yeah, I was just thinking about Duncan, Bird, Dirk, KG (to an extent), Dr. J, and a case could be made for Havlicek. But I suppose my comment was slightly in haste. Just seems like a roster is easier to fill out when forwards are set instead of guards but that’s just instinct.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Does Shaq mantain his weight in TODAY’S NBA?

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    I really hope NHELLY sticks around, that kind of input is exactly what SLAMonline needs to go the extra mile…

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Tough one but I’m leaning towards Hakeem. Hakeem would be willing to play anywhere while Shaq would leave your team for New York or LA after a couple of years.

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    I really hope NHELLY sticks around, his input is exactly what SLAM needs to go the extra mile…

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    Fellas I’m driving home now, hope for some good discussion in around 30-45 mins(NHELLY please stick around and dazzle us with conversation). Paz.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Speaking of Shaq, did y’all hear Dwight Howard is organizing a current Magic team vs. “Magic all-stars” game?
    Current squad vs. Shaq, Penny, T-Mac, VC and others.
    Sounds dope.

  • http://Slamonline.com Caboose

    Hakeem. Defense inside is huge for stopping the new breed of slashers.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    Naw, ya’ll are making me think Bird with slight edge. I’ll say this. I’ll take Kobe and Shaq over Bird and Shaq. It just has so many different directions team wise that would change for who i’d take.. hmm I’ll keep thinking this one through. Bird and Nique vs Kobe and Nique. Bird. Kobe and Pippen or Bird and Pippen… Kobe. Damn, I dunno!

  • http://nba.com/bulls The Babe

    Eh… Durant is clearly not the 2nd best player in the league, LeBron, as much of a d*ckhead as he is, is definitely the best but Durant is in no way number 2!

  • http://bulls.com airs

    maniac- i think i should be good for tonight.
    we only got like 5 ppl so far??
    cmon y’all

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    I don’t think Shaq’s weight was ever a problem until later on in his career. I never pictured him to be “out of shape” during his Laker days like the media and a certain teammate would like you to believe because the guy avg. between 40-44mp during the playoffs with the Lakers, so you have to be in excellent shape to carry around 300+ pounds year after year.

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    The legalization of zone defense is the only reason I’m thinking Hakeem in my own scenario.

  • http://offthebackboard.wordpress.com/ Off The Backboard

    About a 150 comments since I last commented, so I just wanted to add something to the “shoulda” MVP discussions. I believe it was 2002 that the consensus fan choice for MVP was Jason Kidd for doing exactly what Nash did with the Suns in 06. He was pretty much robbed that year considering he was the only all-star on his team, and was surrounded by the likes of Luscious Harris and Kerry Kittles. They were the best team in the East that year. Duncan deserved it in 2002, but NO ONE predicted Kidd to lead the Nets to the top of the East, especially considering that Marbury had almost the exact same roster and could barely lead the Nets to the playoffs, much less the Finals.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Yeah, I agree with that. But, the 93-94 Bulls didn’t really have another real scorer.

  • http://Slamonline.com Caboose

    Same nbk. If I may pose my own question: barring no injuries, would you rather build around Penny, Vince, or TMac?

  • http://offthebackboard.wordpress.com/ Off The Backboard

    JTay, Shaq become out of shape starting in the 2002-2003 reason, which heavily contributed to his injuries, lack of passion during the regular season, etc. While Shaq came back from the 2002 off season out of shape and healing on “company time”, Kobe was putting up 9 straight 40 point games, and averaging 30 ppg that season. If Shaq had actually given a f**k that year, the Lakers would have won another one.

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    Off The Backboard has a point, but it’s also because people fell in love with the PG more recently. If we are retroactively looking at what went down, then doesn’t Kevin Johnson deserve to be considered for MVP’s, too?

  • otero

    Kevin Durant obviously isnt the 2nd best player in the league…we all know that..BUT if this is based on projection the THUNDER definitely have a shot 2 be number 1 in the west…and he will be the best player on that team.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    @Caboose – Penny! That was MY DUDE!

  • http://offthebackboard.wordpress.com/ Off The Backboard

    @Caboose – Tracy McGrady. Better defensive player, better scorer than both of those guys.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Power forwards who play in or near the post are easier to build around than two guards.
    In the annals of NBA history, the list of teams built around perimeter players without a post presence to win championships is Tiny.
    YOu basically have Jordan and Isiah, and Jordan played in the post, while Aguirre posted for the Pistons.
    It’s ALWAYS better to have a great post player. So much easier to find the additional parts you need.

  • http://@Socraceaz Otero

    Larry Legend is my nba2k12 cover

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    McGrady played defense?
    He got blocks and steals off his athleticism, he didn’t play much defense though.

  • http://offthebackboard.wordpress.com/ Off The Backboard

    But with Vince/TMac, you also have to consider that neither of them really cared all that much. To Vince, basketball has always been just a game (as opposed to an obsession like the greats), and TMac cared so little that he barely tried to correct the imbalances that resulted in his back injuries for most of his careers. Forget where I read this, but it took him something like 8 seasons to switch trainers and figure out what he was doing wrong that lead to his injuries. Remember kids, if you want to be a professional athlete, know what the f**k you’re doing when you train.

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    Right, Allen, but would we ever consider Bird a PF?

  • http://www.twitter.com/nflem41 Nicolas Fleming

    Oh and Caboose, I take Grant Hill! lol

  • http://Slamonline.com Caboose

    Haha same Enig. Penny, Shaq, and eventually CWebb and Peja got me really into ball as a kid. Im from Sac but Penny is why I’m still a Magic fan today.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    T-Mac. Better all-around player, phenomenal scorer, unlimited range and was a great defender during his TO days.

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Ok, maybe not a great defender in TO but he’s a better defender than VC and Penny.

  • Maniac

    So you guys pretty much summed up what I was going to say. Both have their trade-offs, but Kobe is an a**hole to his teammates & like Allenp pointed out, it’s questionable if he really makes his teammates better (i think he does, but it’s a debate). No teammate every really complained about Bird and he made them better. Plus he’s a better rebounder and passer while guaranteeing you 25 points. Also, I cosign about it being a little easier to build around a forward than a guard. Depends on the type of forward and guard too. I would take Bird over Jordan for those same reasons too to build around. All those players need certain type of players around them, but like nbk said, Bird has a broader range. That doesn’t mean that Bird is better than either guard though.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    I got a question for the ages. Who is a better defender today… Ready?… Boozer or Vince Carter?

  • Maniac

    Sorry I meant to cosign Caboose about the building around forwards

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    Enigmatic, it’s about who’s better not who’s your dude. JWorthy was “my dude” growing up but I would’t pick him over Bird, Doc, Nique or BKing. Was prime Penny a better basketball player than Prime T-Mac? NO.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    YES

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Why wouldn’t we consider him a power forward? Red often said that he didn’t believe in the power and small label, and Bird’s stats certainly align with that label.
    He was one of the first “stretch” fours in that he took little guys on the block and big guys outside. He was a great post player and post passer.
    Why couldn’t he have been the post presence for your team?

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    OK, my bad, you’re right.
    T-Mac was a beast….damnit.
    But he did suck at defense .

  • Maniac

    How long are we building around these guys lol? If it’s for a short time, T-Mac in his prime. Then he’ll get hurt and the team will go south. If the long haul, then Penny.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    I don’t know who was a better player out of a prime Penny and TMac, but it’s a good debate.

  • Maniac

    Wait I take that back. None of the guys will last over the long haul so I’d ride with T-Mac all the way.

  • Maniac

    LakeShow, what are they defending lol?

  • Maniac

    And in today’s NBA I’d take Hakeem. Prime Shaq would foul out of every game today. At least Hakeem was mobile enough to defend outside of the post. Plus, I’ve heard some analysts say that Hakeem’s true position was PF. Maybe. I don’t see why he couldn’t be both when Duncan is technically both.

  • Otero

    Yo i cosign vc n tmac had raw talent but didnt really care to go hard…same with ai…but @AllenP…Whatsgood with that 2k12..?

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    LOL, nothing that’s why it’s a question for the ages.

    T-MAC>>Penny. Liked Penny, but T-Mac at his peak could do everything a little better than Penny imo.

  • Otero

    @Offthebackboard i always felt the sameway about kidd? Smh but yeah in my opinion about what ya was discussing earlier.shaq deserved 05 and cp shouldve got 08 but i guess Kobe was overdue by then

  • Maniac

    Does 2K12 allow 3-way or 4-way trades? I don’t see any options for it

  • Maniac

    MVP voters seem to change their opinion about what a MVP is every now and then. There are always 2-3 players who deserve the award every year.

  • Maniac

    @Allenp – I’m interested in Josh Smith. Got any trade ideas?

  • http://www.nba.comI Showtime

    I will take tmac , because penny prime was cut way,too short kinda g.hills. Penny was that dude he had the bball iQ & vision that was elite, but mac was in just elite in scoring, kinda like kd. To me it like poorman jordan vs poorman,magic( notice I said poor man)

  • One

    Hey Lakeshow I’m with you on this,

    It’s Kobe Bryant’s intangibles that still place him as a top 3 player. He goes straight for the heart of every team he plays and doesn’t relent. This can be his undoing occasionally but I do think He is going to surprise us next season.

    You can shee here:http://network.yardbarker.com/nba/article_external/main_reason_kobe_bryant_should_still_be_considered_the_best_basketball_player_on_earth_today/7640779 that Kobe still quite easily has everything required of a top 3 player.

  • Otero

    @maniac are you on right now?

  • Otero

    @maniac are you on right now

  • Kadavour

    Enigmatic: lauding Pip as a revolutionary rebounder is more revisionist history at work. How many double digit rebounding seasons did he have? how about none. He averaged 8rebs in 2 seasons. Pip was a career second fiddle. He proved that in 94. Same thing with his mini stint in H-town, and again, in Portland where he was the glue guy. Kobe would be a better fit for that team because of his ability to score from any position in the triple post offense.

  • the preacher

    just wondering what would happen if kd got ranked higher than lebron, or worse what if slam actually left lebron out of the ranking? im guessing an average of say 900 comments if kd is ranked higher

  • Maniac

    Yes I’m on 2k12 right now

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    T-MAC was much better than penny in their primes, And does anyone have the the warriors or kings in the PS3 league.

  • Maniac

    @otero ^^

  • Kadavour

    Superstar is WEAK. step ya game up and play HOF. piece of advice for US players on 360. change your locale to united kingdom, and clock setting 00 GMT London. that way you use another set of servers to host ur game as opposed to the overrun east coast servers.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Megatron

    @nbk, what are you gonna name the league? id like the heat but if someone else wants them im down with a few teams so I dont mind giving them up

  • Otero

    tjay917…add me

  • http://www.slamonline.com Megatron

    @kadavour, does that take away some of the lag?

  • Maniac

    got you

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    When the hell did I say Scottie Pippen was a “revolutionary rebounder”????
    When did I even bring up his rebounding?
    Kadavour, are you on meds?

  • Kadavour

    yup. its much improved.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Kobe’s Stats as a starter (from 1998-2010):
    Kobe Bryant: 27.0 PPG, 5.8 REB, 5.1 AST, 1.5 STL, 0.5 BLK, 3.0 TO, 33.1% 3P, 84.2% FT, 45.6%FG,

    Michael Jordan’s career averages: 30.12 PPG, 6.2 REB, 5.3 AST, 2.3 STL, 0.8 BLK, 2.7 TO, 32.7% 3P, 83.5% FT, 49.7% FG, ,

    MJ: 5 MVP’s. Kobe 1 MVP
    MJ: 6 Finals MVP’s. Kobe 2 Finals MVP’s
    MJ: 10 Scoring Titles. Kobe 2 Scoring Titles
    MJ: 1 Defensive Player of the Year Award. Kobe 0
    MJ: 3 Steals titles. Kobe 0
    MJ: 10 time 1st Team All NBA. Kobe 8 time 1st Team All NBA
    MJ: 9 time 1st Team All-Defense. Kobe 8 time 1st Team All Defense
    MJ: Career Scoring Average 30.1. Kobe 25.3
    MJ: Career FG Percentage .497. Kobe 45.5
    MJ: Career Playoff Scoring Average 33.4. Kobe 25.5
    MJ: Career Playoff FG Percentage .487. Kobe .448
    MJ: Career Rebounding Average 6.2. Kobe 5.3
    MJ: Career Assists Average 5.3. Kobe 4.7
    MJ: Career Steals Average 2.3. Kobe 1.5

    Yes MJ has better stats, but MJ never had to play with a 30 point per game player like Shaq. MJ had free reign his whole career to do whatever. MJ never had a post player to play with like Shaq or Gasol. MJ was the best post player on his team and did not have a big man to clog the middle. When Kobe got the opportunity to be the best post player he averaged over 50%fg and was getting 30 points too easy, then Gasol came back. MJ was the first so he will always get PROPED UP more. BUT YALL ask yall self this if their was no MJ, what would you think of KOBE. KOBE can never be better than MJ, but KOBE can get seven rings, beat the CELTICS or HEAT in the Finals then he can get more points towards his GREATEST EVER QUEST. I am a big KOBE fan, because he had to work to be the best from sitting the bench, Coach not playing him, having trouble with Shaq as the TEAM leader, to getting the team and still taking over.

    For those who think Kobe just set around when Shaq won the first three rings. CHECK THE STATS I had to educate some other dudes a while back, heres the STATS

    Shaq 99-00 30 3 15
    Kobe 99-00 21 5 5
    Shaq 00-01 30 3 15
    Kobe 00-01 30 6 7
    Shaq 01-02 29 3 13
    Kobe 01-02 27 5 6
    Shaq 02-03 27 4 15
    Kobe 02-03 32 5 5
    Shaq 03-04 22 2 13
    Kobe 03-04 25 6 5

    Those are each year compare in playoff career stats and aver the 03/04 year Shaq never averaged over 20ppg ever again in the Playoffs and Kobe after 03/04 has averaged 30ppg since. KOBE is top 5 ALL TIME. MJ

    KOBE has hit more GAME WINNERS than anyone in the HISTORY OF THE NBA. ALso alot of anylst and Phil Jackson has stated Kobe has a better pure shot than MJ, and is a better 3 point shooter. ALso MJ defense was overrated because I remember slow Magic Johnson torching MJ and Pippen had to guard him. Also people forget alot of times during the first three rings. Kobe guarded the other teams best player and had the ball most the time in the 4th qtr because Shaq could not hit free throws.

    MJ will always been seen as way better than Kobe, but if you put aside some stats because MJ was always dominate from day one, Kobe and MJ are too close for comfort in shooting, drive, defense and rings.

    IF there is no MJ, Then KOBE would be seen as the greatest EVER, but MJ will always been ONE, unless Kobe wins seven or eight rings. ALso didn’t Magic and Larry play on GREAT TEAMS, but Kobe gets the hit for playing with a good Gasol and old Artest. Funny. Magic had Bryon Scott, Kareem-ALL TIME SCORING LEADER, James top 50 Worthy, MIcheal greatest defensive player behind Pippen Cooper and more. Larry had even more help with at least three of his players getting 20 ppg during the season. Larry, had Danny Ainge, Dennis Johnson, Kevin Mchale, Robert Parrish and more.

    KOBE is the MAN. BOOK IT!!!

  • http://Slamonline.com Caboose

    Nbk, let me have my Magic if you don’t mind.

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    YAY.
    SEED’s here….

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Its going to be Slam Commenters. I’ll comment here as soon as I get home from work. Doin a lot of sh*t right now. Caboose, they are reserved fam

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    I dont doubt kobe, maybe he can put together a spectacular season, but the odds are against him with him being older and less explosive and having to get acclimated to a new system and coach.

  • Otero

    yeah put me down for the league…If I cant get the Thunder, then I want the Grizz or Hornets, and if not them the Kings. Im ready with anyone! Im nice with the Raptors

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    for you*

  • Otero

    @maniac…whatup i invited you for a match

  • http://www.slamonline.com Megatron

    otero, you on ps3 or 360?

  • Ouse

    Great write-up Ryan, spot on. Its a total mystery though how you guys could vote Durant at 2. & when if ever in his prime will Lebron’s big-game failures drop him off the top spot I wonder?

  • Otero

    Im on PS3…TJAY917

  • Maniac

    This online stuff confused me lol. It’s not like last year. Invite me again

  • Maniac

    @Allenp – Andrew Bynum, Steve Blake, & Trey Johnson for Josh Smith & Zaza Pachulia? lol

  • http://bedotwater.bandcamp.com BE.water

    @nbk I know I’m late, but I’m trying to be in that 2k12 league. whats the info? or just hit me on LIVE @: The Frozone …. it was the only current black superhero i could name at the time. lol

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Damn, BE. you never heard of Blade, Spawn or War Machine?

  • Maniac

    @Allenp – And I’m waiting for this deal with the Sixers to go through. If I get Lou Williams, I’ll throw him in the deal if you throw in Kirk. So the first deal or Andrew Bynum, Lou Williams, Steve Blake, & Trey Johnson for Josh Smith, Kirk Hinrich & Zaza Pachulia. What you think?

  • One

    Would you by a an amazing expensive car that drove like a dream until one day a tornado is chasing you and and when you need it most it breaks down and you die, rendering everything it has done before hand pretty irrelevant. I could see a 30% chance of KD being number 1

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    Like lebron, people need to stop comparing Kobe to MJ, he is not better nor is he as good. Mj trumps him in everything except three’s and Ft’s. Kobe is barely a top ten player of all-time. With that being said, I do appreciate his game, but stop with MJ comparisons.

  • http://slamonline.com LakeShow

    SLic Ric. You do know that that is how the sports world, especially basketball goes right? You do realize how foolish you sound saying that you shouldn’t compare athletes right? It sounds quite silly. How are you suppose to describe a players game if someone doesn’t know his game? Are we suppose to just go through every facet of their game and talk about what they do on the floor in your mind? What if their style of play and what they accomplish on the floor is very similar to another player? We still can;t compare? No comparing allowed? Why? Why should we not compare player A to player B if they play similar style of ball?

  • guru

    Kobe will play into his late thirties at about 23 ppg, win acouple more championships and retire as the all time leader in points with 7 rings and GOAT status

  • http://www.facebook.com/#!/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    I personally had him lower, but I’m not completely shocked by his placement. I would try to be active in the thread since it was the one thread I was most looking forward to….but there’s already 300+ comments so screw it, I’ll leave it alone.

  • http://www.kb24.com The Seed

    Another bad writeup from Ryan Jones, but I will take Kobe at 3. I think people forget Kobe was banged up and Gasol and Bynum played like Kwame Brown. Odom was making reality shows and Brown got an R&B star and we traded Sasha knowing and we could have used Farmer. Dirk Dallas has a great year, but really, LA is back. Give Kobe the ring back, MVP back and all time scoring leader in playoffs is coming. Also Kobe is the only player in history that can be compared to MJ. BOOK IT!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/#!/joe.l.brewer3 BlackPhantom

    Aw c’mon Seed I thought the write-up was pretty good. It’s not like Ryan wasn’t telling the truth. BTW, In order to really get back to the Finalsand win, we need either a decent,younger PG, Dwight Howard or a lights-out Kobe

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    The Seed hating on you is probably the biggest Compliment of the day Ryan. Congratulations. CATALOG THAT!!!

  • http://nba.com/celtics lights out

    see the face kobe’s making in that picture? that’s how he’d react to this ranking. i can see why bron and kd will be ranked ahead of him, but i’d still maintain that he’s the most skilled player in the league and that he’s the guy i’d want on my side in the fourth quarter. and this is from a celtics fan.

  • http://slamonline.com AlbertBarr

    Damn. I wish I had already bought 2k12. Hella want to play in this league. Haven’t played much since 2k10 but used to kill it.

  • nbaNw8

    PUT KD OVER LEBRON!!!
    KD #1

  • http://dui007.com jbn74sb

    I no longer have time to read through all of these responses, most of which I am sure are nonsensical. Just thought I’d say hello, and caution you ignorant haters against counting the Lakers and Kobe out just yet. Assuming of course that we ever have a pinche basketball season…

  • http://www.slamonline.com/online/category/blogs/farmer-jones/ Ryan Jones

    Bodie.

  • http://dui007.com jbn74sb

    Okay, I lied. I scrolled through some of these responses. I’m not sure who some of these newschool posters are, but allenp must not have watched much Lakers basketball over the past 10 years. For anyone to claim that it is doubtful as to whether or not Kobe makes his teammates better is the most ludicrous thing ever written. Chris F-cking Mihm? Chucky Atkins? Caron Butler? Smush Parker? Kwame Brown? I could go on for 63 lines about the scrubs that Kobe has given careers. But instead I’m going home to f-ck my beautiful wife. Goodnight children.

  • DeeDre

    Kobe’s not winning 2 more titles. It would be quite surprising to me if he won even 1 more. The lockout is probably the best thing that happen to him in order to get him back at 100% but he is aging and father time isn’t a respector to anyone guys. I know its hard to believe that the Great Kobe will one day decline to mid star status on the court but his stats have taken a slight decline. Bring up the finger issue all you want but the fall of Kobe is inevitable. And I think it might be sooner than most fans would like to believe

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    jbn74sb – Caron Butler was an All Star the year after he left Kobe. Shaq won a title with a lesser team 2 years after he left Kobe. Kobe still rags on his past teammates, you think that’s not in the back of Andrew Bynum’s mind? Didn’t they just get swepped and implode like children? Kobe is a wonderful basketball player, but other then team USA (a team of guys of comparable talent – proving Kobe thinks he’s better then most everyone else…and acts like it) he hasnt proven to be much of a leader or teammate outside of his production. Congratulations on the wife…if that’s what your looking for with that. Or the sex. I hear marriage screws with that part of your life. That and when she takes half your belongings. So congratulations and Have a good night.

  • robb

    Big Kobe fan here. Fair ranking from SLAM, not like those ESPN *ssholes. No.7 Gimme a f*cking break.

  • http://slamonline.com datkid

    lmao damn nbk

  • robb

    Wait! Wade 5th?? Durant 2nd??? Sorry but Wade is a better all around player than KD.

  • Kadavour

    Enigmatic: you didn’t say he was revolutionary, but ur claim that he was on a different level almost suggests that his rebounding wasn’t average for his position @ 7reb per game. just as Kobe’s as average for his position.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    How many minute games y’all want for this league? I was thinkin 32, 8 minute quarters. Holler back.

  • Jer Dawg

    The SEED’s argument is SUPER strong and backed it up with stats and analysis supporting his statement. I’m 100% behind everything written.

  • http://www.fiba.com Darksaber

    To BE: Luke Cage, The Falcon, Mr. Terrific, there are quite a few.
    And judging by the relatively low comment count, RJ was right.
    We are over talkIng about Kobe’s place in these lists.
    Nice post, Farmer.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Megatron

    nbk thats cool with me

  • http://www.slamonline.com Megatron

    how many games we doin a season?

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Prolly 56. No more then that. I know we arent going to get enough people to fill all 30 teams. Talkhoops is havin trouble filling their league and they are a whole website with a twitter plus the playoffs are gonna take long enough as it is.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Megatron

    yeah alright thats cool, when you gonna have it up and running?

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    Hi this is completely off topic, but i got ALOT of things to sell at a very cheap price: an xbox with 2k12 (BOTH bonus covers magic and bird included) ,2k11, live10 a handful of NBA jerseys (about 4/5) Magic Johnson, Kukoc, Latrell (NY), Vince Carter (ORL), basketball cards (100 assorted or so) and shoes sizes 9/10
    if anyone is interested just email me I’ll forward pics and other details… was going to go to bay but this is where the NBA fans are so you guys get first dibs. It’s all gotta go.

  • Otero

    Did ya start the league yet? What’s the name of it

  • http://www.triplejunearthed.com/dacre Dacre

    the orange vespa AT hot mail dot com (no spaces just wrote it like this to dodge moderator)

  • http://www.slamonline.com Slick Ric

    @lakeshow, stfu, I’m not saying dont compare them in terms of style of play, he is trying to compare their stats like they are equals, and they are not, MJ is the much better player. Idiot

  • Otero

    @nbk Fantasy draft or reg teams?? We could probably get 20 alone on here

  • http://www.slamonline.com Megatron

    its for 360 otero. Enigmatic has a ps3 league set up though

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    I’ll have it up tonight. Gotta get real life things done first lol Name will be slamaleague password will be slamily. Caboose got dibs on Orlando, we doin a fantasy draft FYI (that’s the stip of me being the commish) – easier for competitive balance as long as you think out your picks and know your strengths. I don’t want to have to start a lockout when someone complains about getting stuck with Milwaukee.

  • Otero

    Lol ^ …dam you matics info for the p3 league

  • http://ggfhh.com Jukai

    This is great, but I was hoping for an interview with kobe talking about chocolate gum.

  • Otero

    Anyone want 2 play for $$$$..we can play thru virgin gaming

  • http://www.slamonline.com Megatron

    k, fantasy draft is a good idea. Ill take dibs on New orleans. any idea when the draft is gonna be? and how about serpentine style rather than fixed?

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    I’ll be serpentine, and I’m thinking Monday night on the draft?

  • http://www.slamonline.com Megatron

    im good anytime on monday between 5:30pm – 2:00am est.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Megatron

    otero, matics league is named “SLAM Commenters” password is “slamily”

  • http://cnbc.com JTaylor21

    HA! Jukai

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    360 Association is created, draft is set for Monday at 9MT but can be adjusted. League Name: “slamaleague” Password: “slamily” – Orlando & NOLA are reserved if you they aren’t taken when you get there.

  • matt

    Jennings should not be top50. Also, if Durant is # 1, there is a serious problem. I will never forget LBJ taking that cavs team to the finals. Amazing. Durant is a scorer. LBJ has no evident flaw. He can play with fellow stars or he can take a ragtag team to the finals. He can play all 5 positions. He is an athletic beast. Yet still smart offensively and defensively. Durant can post 30 ppg. LBJ can probably post that, about 8 boards, 8 assists. maybe 2 blocks and 2 steals. He might currently be the 2nd best SF of all time. He will need at least a ring or to to overthrow Bird.

  • Galagu

    Kobe>Durant, right now. this isn’t even an argument but solid write up like you said its just a list.

  • Jeremy

    If you really think Kobe Care what a blogger says You might be thinking too highly of yourself.

    at the end of the Day Kobe will be first ballot HOF and nobody on here will be

    END OF STORY

  • unrel

    kobe is still top 10 in the league.. period.. he could be ranked anywhere, 1-10, and have a solid argument for it.. with kobe.. it IS about his legacy more so than what he can physically do today.. why?.. because when you have a career such as his.. it seems like he can only be ranked on a list that includes himself and tim duncan..

  • L

    He might be N°3 but all in all in my book, i’d still take him over anybody in clutch time.L

  • shaneel

    lol dude….we all know kobe didnt have a good season last season…but u didnt mention the fact that on his right knee under his patella ther was hardly cartilage left and it was almost bone to bone and the ankle which he overcame in round 1 and the finger….we saw this as a bad season for KOBE but if u think about it he played well dispite his injuries sure he didnt play through them as well as he did in the 2009-2010 season but it was still good. Now hes had the new surgery and frm wat i saw in drew league….he said he hasnt felt this good in 3years….and 3years ago in 07/08 kobe was in the prime of his career so now this upcoming season with the training he can do on his legs agin and the ample rest im sure wel see a different ..better kobe. dont count him out just yet im agreeing with wat yr saying but for wat u wrote up is really talking about kobe in 3years NOT NOW. kobe bryant is the best player in the world id put him at 1 even today. hes wiser, smarter and better yet he knows his game he knows wat works on who and wat dosnt he knows wat tweaking he has to do and aas far as talking bout jordan and lebron no i think the debate will go on forever bout him passing jordan yet i believe he can still do it if he wins 2titles without jordan at averaging 26-27points.. but comparing him stillllll to lebron ….no. Kobe is still better then lebron maybe wen kobe hits 35 or 36 lebron wil just pass him but todae kb is the best hands down

  • Jono

    @Darce, wot size and make are your jerseys?

  • http://slamonline.com Ugh

    HEY GUYS LETS POST SOME NUMBERS TO PROVE SOMETHING IRRELEVANT TO THE ARTICLE!

  • Truth

    nobody takes these rankings seriously ahahah we all know KOBE is the greatest in the league right now. not carmelo not lebron not wade not durant. they all look up to KOBE and admire him. its obvious. In the 2008 USA olympics they all passed him the ball when they were struggling. He won the chip in 2009 and 2010, and ran into a Dallas team that was playing lights out. KOBE is #1. If i had to pick 1 player for the 4th quarter, any quarter, its KOBE.

  • http://www.slamonline.com Eboy

    I love that Bean is so irrelevant now, his comment count couldn’t even sniff 500 with half of the current ones talking about online 2K12 leagues.

  • http://Slamonline.com Caboose

    E, probably because all of his comments were on the Wade page.

  • http://@whogotjazz.twitter.com MIGZ

    WTF Kobe at 3 damn he got more haters than i thought, then their gonna say that KD is number 2 F*** outa here kobe’s 1 Lebron 2 DWade 3 Melo 4 KD 5 thats how it is and its not an opinion thats hard core facts!
    if the thunder didnt get pooped on by Dallas in the playoffs then maybe i would of put him at four but KD at 2 come on now
    no offense too KD He’s a great player but he is not better then Kobe or Melo!

  • http://www.angryblacklady.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/lebron-waaaah.jpg Krisjanis

    c’mon y’all, lebron wasn’t the best even on his own team. the PLAYOFFS

  • Rainman

    Durants better than Kobe? Durant himself would Scoff at that.

    3rd is a good spot for Kobe dont get me wrong, but not behind Durant.

  • Rainman

    Thats not to say, Wade could very well have been Ranked Higher than Kobe, but i digress, Kobe at 3-4 is good for me, as i said, Durant at number 2 is what im not pleased with.

  • Rainman

    i agree with Lake Show, it shoulda been Dwight at number 2, ahead of Kobe

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Maniac
    Nah, I’m cool on that trade.

  • http://slamonline.com Allenp

    Otero
    The PS3 League is “Slam Commenters” password “slamily”
    It’s not too late to join for anyone. We need more people pronto.

  • Drig

    @Eboy……seriously? It’s more like his place isn’t as controversial in the logical sense as Rose over Wade or Dwight being so low etc. AND the fact that the topic is losing steam fast. No more whining about X not being in top 5 or who’ll be in the top 5 then like the top 6-10 guys’ posts contained.

  • http://www.optimabbc.be Max

    I’m waiting on my mother to come home with my ps3 so I can get my 2k12 on.

  • http://bulls.com airs

    that’s precious, max. haha
    jus playing bro

  • http://www.bulls.com Enigmatic

    Max, join soon as you get it homie!

  • http://www.optimabbc.be Max

    And to no ones surpris e my mom forgot to actually go the the store and get my ps3 back SMFH…

  • http://www.optimabbc.be Max

    /watch?v=SIaor_gJmUo
    Thats whats going on in my head right now lol.

  • Brandon

    People fail to realize when discussing or assessing Kobe’s stats from a year ago that Phil played him less last year in an effort to keep him relatively fresh for the postseason, which turned out to be pointless. Look at his minutes from last season and compare with all of his previous seasons: 33 mpg vs usual 38-40 mpg. That means his playing time was cut down 5-7 minutes!! With that decrease, of course his scoring, rebounds, and assists will go down! Any player’s stats would, regardless of age. This is a fact that cannot be overlooked, and I’m surprised Slam failed to mention this. Nonetheless, look for Kobe and the Lakers to rebound from last season (which was a lost season). Not saying they will win and Kobe will put up insane numbers, but there definitely will be an improvement over last season.

  • Maniac

    Damn u Allen lol. It’s good though. I don’t need both seven footers lol. Aiming for a more athletic, younger laker team this year.

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    Well Max why don’t you hop on your big-wheel and hurry to the store then?

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    Just joking hehehe…

  • http://www.optimabbc.be Max

    Because its to far away and I cant drive a car lol

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Brandon he shot more in less minutes then any player in the NBA. His adjusted stats are still lower then his average. He had a worse season then he has since the 90′s and not because he played less minutes.

  • Lz – Cphfinest3

    Be big-wheel I meant that kind of children’s bike with the big wheel in front and two small ones in the back. Would post a link but it would only get through when the season starts. Maybe I got the name wrong?

  • http://www.optimabbc.be Max

    I know what you meant lol, but if I could drive a car Id be playing 2k now.

  • http://www.nba.com showtime

    @ allenp even thou these nets are terrible, not giving up deron thou…lol

  • Bainbridge Wright

    Thank God for SLAM. ESPN’s list was ridiculous, and this one is sane. I assume Bron is No. 1 and KD is No. 2. But if the positions are reversed, I can live with that. Good work, SLAM.

  • http://slamonline.com Ben Osborne

    @Bainbridge Wright: thanks!

  • MUBWAR

    what’s the ps3 love, no love 4 Microsoft.

  • Ali

    Come on now…LBJ ain’t even the best player on his team, others have already said this above days ago. GTFOH…

  • mytiman

    No way in the world is Kevin Durant better than Black Mamba.

  • Rainman

    and btw, yet again dumb comments made by the Seed, BOOK IT!

  • kobethebasketballmessiah

    Kobe is only 33 and you guys are branding him “old”. jordan at 36 wasn’t talked about like this. how come you guys don’t come up with articles that talk about steve nash’s age? and lebron is better than kobe? he has better stats than kobe yes, but better player?i don’t think so. yes kobe takes ill advised shots, breaks the triangle often, because he has earned the right to do those. Lebron, no rings, no championship and yet he is better? that’s the most BS thing i’ve ever encounter. his post up game isn’t even close to kobe’s.HE IS NOT BETTER.he is good, but not in the same breath as kobe.Kobe while ailing still can match up with lebron, at a limited physical state, kobe is still dominant. imagine kobe at 33 w/ rested knees, ankle and hands. he knows lebron’s game, lebron haven’t gotten close to figuring kobe out. he is not as good as kobe, he is not as good as kobe. he dunks, he drives, he doesn’t shoot as good as you want people to think. he lacks the intagibles. he lacks leadership so how is he a better player?

  • http://www.nba.com showtime

    Kobe is NOT a good leader… Scores yes(& that on a decline) ..leader NO..but y even bother having this discussion.LBJ #1

  • Ballislove

    THANK you Tariq

  • tjc

    Are you kiding me if anyone above kobe bryant has more rings than him then okay i wont argue but if they dont stop and please put kobe back at number 1 REMEMBER LADIES AND GENTLEMAN THE RING IS THE THING

    Kobe at number 3 really come on

  • http://slamonline.com nbk

    Its not a lifetime achievement award genius.

  • golakeshow

    fuc you you fucing bich. you fucing asshole. i hope to see you in hell bich.

  • http://Slamonline.com nbk

    Someone should teach that dude how to spell.

  • Reeves

    Ok, first off, @The Seed is a complete idiot. Even a month and a half later. We all agree. Probably even @The Seed agrees. Literally every last one of the stats you wrote had Michael above Kobe. Intangibles can only make up for so much, dude. And rings are the measure of a team, not just one player. Bron is above Kobe (currently). So back to normal people. Love this Slam list. I think KD is a little high. While he is clearly the best scorer in the league (and is young, driven, good decision-maker), I would probably take Derrick Rose or Dwayne Wade over KD, as they’re both great scorers and command more spotlight in almost all other aspects of the game. Dwight would follow, and then would be Kobe. I’d almost even rather have Melo than Kobe this season. Good in all aspects, and will continue to be.

  • Mike

    Kobe is a great guard, but he was not the #3 player last year.
    His PER stats are quite good, but not exceptional. Sorry guys.

  • ilovedwight

    this is a bunch of BS i can’t believe it lebron is No.1, does he have four rings? i dont think so! bunch of idiots

  • ilovedwight

    dwight howard is best just putting that out there!

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