Top 50: Derrick Rose, no. 4

I am late to the party, as I was working and then out dining with a lovely young woman, see that is what mature people do instead of spending all evening calling each other names and doing ‘gurgling’ sounds (just joking so don’t take offense, I love this place just as much as the next cat, just seriously lacking time to comment these days) . I see the topic still seems to be mostly about Maniac and maturity. Allenp was fishing for what could have been an interesting discussion about why people rank Rose, Paul and Deron the way they do, but since it seems that he left I’m going to leave that. To give my two-cents on Rose. I don’t agree on the ranking of Rose, find it a bit too high. But as he had a great season, was a well-deserved MVP, is among the best PG’s in the L and has room for improvement + a work ethic, I am not going to argue this too much (also considering the annoying ‘projected performance’ ranking criteria). Ohh and by the way my old foe BC, actually wrote a real nice article. Good job.

Did everyone forget what the criteria for their rankings are? They’re not ranking by career overall, and not even last years play. They’re ranking by NEXT YEAR’S EXPECTED CONTRIBUTIONS. Now if you look at the rankings like this, it makes total sense. Drose being above Wade makes total sense. Last year was Rose’s breakout year, we can only expect even more from him next season. Otherwise, kobe in the top 3 does not make sense. I don’t think he’ll being contributing as much as he used to but really, who knows.

Yup.
Derrick Rose is ALL HYPE.
No talent.
SMFH….

Matic you have a blog? Throw the details out there. And I’d never thought I’d see the day JTaylor was mentioned as a commenter that “knows his stuff”. I’m not trying to add to the e-beefs going on, just playing with you jtaylor.

LMAO @ Engimatic. Yeah this MVP season was a fluke. Next year he’ll be lucky to keep all the shine away from white mamba. And this Derrick Rose person has the nerve to make it to the ECF and be ranked #4 on SLAM??? Who the f*** does he think he is? A talent? *gasp*

i meant to delete that sentence about finding a stat to support that lol… but whatever.

and for the record… d.wade is a better scorer because he averages more points with a better field goal percentage than cp3 and d.will. and d.rose. also he get’s to the line more, and finishes with contact just as well as rose.

A scorer is a scorer regardless of their position. It still doesn’t make sense that because it applies to those three, but not Wade. I do agree with you 100% that Kobe does take some ridiculously stupid shots at times, but he also takes shot that could hurt his % that other players don’t because they’re either afraid of the outcome or want to protect their stats. I think you’re underestimating Rose’s craftiness of getting his own shot. It is just not just pure speed and quickness. (His ball-handling skills are on par with CP3′s and D-Will’s).

Airs; let me explain why I don’t see Rose as top 5 (my ranking is based on ‘best player right here right now’ as I find this ‘projected performance’ ridiculous and don’t think it is even close to being followed, it is obvious that the voters have also cast their votes considering the ‘best player ‘, ‘career achievements’ as well as ‘projected performance’ at least that is my opinion. The five players better than Rose ‘right now right here’ in no particular order; 1. Dirk, just like Rose he has the flaw that he is average on D, however he is a better scorer and even more unstoppable than Rose on O, is a better leader, is more clutch (not talking any ‘clutch gene’, but yes clutch matter), is more efficient and just handed it two Miami and their big 3 (really 2) a thing that Rose didn’t even come close to even though his team was being held to higher esteem than the Mavs going into the playoffs. Really for all respect there is rightfully given to Rose, there should be given the same and more to Dirk as he did all the same things and more this playoffs than Rose is being lauded for (and have more or less the same shortcomings). 2. Lebron, he is simply a bigger and better and more seasoned version of Rose, I am not going to get deep on this one as it was obvious who was the better player among the two when James locked up Rose while closing out Chi. 3. Wade, in my book the pound for pound best two-way player in the L (James lacks the balls when it matter, again this matter). Rose is more or less there with Wade on O, but again Wade is a bigger, stronger and more seasoned version, he is also more crafty and plays D that Rose can only dream about (until now). 4. Dwight, although the C spot is weak, Dwight is still maybe the most dominant player in the L, the best defender and rebounder and still scores at a high enough clip and with so good efficiency that he has to be ranked as having a bigger impact overall than Rose. 5. Durant/CP3/Rose/Kobe – actually I will not be making the case, because after giving it some thought I find Rose on the same level as these three others and it becomes a matter of preference (mine would be CP3 and Durant over Rose, Kobe below, but I can respect anybody arguing Rose should be over Durant and CP3 maybe not so much Koldbe). So actually I think Rose should be ranked somewhere between 5-7 and thus 4 is a bit, just a bit too high in my opinion.

oh ok thanks maniac…. but i guess if you want to be technical if cp3 or d.will simply abandoned or reduced their playmaking duties and JUST tried to score they could score as much if not more than wade. i mean maybe.

Wade is a better scorer than Rose no doubt about it. They scored at roughly the same clip and Wade has James (and Bosh) next to him to divide the shots with. Wade has led the league in scoring, somthing that Rose has never done and will probably never do with Durant around. Wade is also much more efficient than Wade, shoots higher percentages, and finishes (which is Rose’s bread and butter) better at the rim than Rose. Who is the better scorer among Wade and Rose should not be up for debate at all. When it comes to scoring there is not a single thing (except maybe for the floater and FT percentage – I am too lazy to check their %) that Rose does better than Wade.

And thanks for the plug, Enigmatic. I think a good SLAM commenter is one with a good knowledge of the game and is respectful, huh?

Lz i cosign everything you just said… that’s not quite what we were talking about tho. What we were sort of getting into, and i find this intriguing is cp3/d.will vs wade scoring wise. I think theoretically if they concerned themselves only with scoring that they could average just as much ppg with just as good of a field goal percentage as he does, MAYBE. thoughts?

i got you, Lz. but here’s my beef.
the same thing people are criticizing rose fans for doing, ppl are doing for dirk.
supposedly a lot of rose’s ranking has to do with the fact that he won the MVP award last year, which is fine. it probably is the case for many of the votes.
but why all of a sudden is dirk getting so much love? and im definitely not saying that it isn’t warranted, cuz it is, the man is unstoppable.
but who was asking “where the hell is dirk?!” when the top 5 rolled around the past few seasons.
maybe ppl were, but i don’t remember it. its like the fact that he won a championship automatically catapults him into having a better projected season, which honestly im still not sure i see happening.

Well that’s enough for me today. I’m out. We’ll see all the crazy stuff that happens tomorrow when SLAM announces Durant at #3…

Ok, wrap up time:
-If I looked at this ranking independent of the rest of the list, I wouldn’t be too upset. But, seeing Rose above Wade and Dwight, that’s iffy.
-Kobe is way too high. We all know it. Yes, even LakeShow can admit Kobe shouldn’t be #2.
-Rose is a great offensive creator. He’s a very good scorer (not elite) and a good passer (also not elite) but his athleticism drives him to the next level.
-I wish Rose the best because he is a great kid. But, I hope he doesn’t rely on his athleticism too much because he could wind up being the next Gilbert Arenas. A stretch, I know, but I want to see Rose push himself further.
-Durant is way too high. Defense means something doesn’t it?
-Maniac thinks he’s great at arguing when all he really does is dodge questions or evidence that prove him wrong. He needs a rhetoric class or something cause he’s broken almost every logical fallacy in the book.
-Deron could be just as good of a scorer as Rose, he just hasn’t been called upon. I still give the nod to Rose only because he’s proven it over the course of a season. That said, Deron has more sheer scoring talent.
-I’ll give commenter of the day to Allen. Great points my man. Enig is runner-up.

It sucks being in Australia. I miss all the decent debate from you guys. Are you all east coast guys? Im guessing. Anyway, Slam – what are you doing mate? This year you have gone totally mad. Kobe as top three… c’mon! What’s going on there. Dwight, Wade, Griffin- too low. Kobe, LBJ, Durant – too high. Anyway, despite being about 10 hrs ahead i’ll try and chip in when I can here, as it doesn’t look like there’s going to be much of a nba season. BRING BACK LEAGUE PASS…

Anyone who thinks wade is a better scorer than rose is not very intelligent. They are comparable in many ways – both are streaky 3 pt shooters, both are terrific slashers and finishers at the rim, both are explosive on the break, both have solid jumpshots. The only real edge for dwade is on defense and that is what makes him a better player, not his offense.

Airs; to answer you regarding Dirk. I have personally found him underrated ever since he took Dallas to the Finals the first time. Some years he should have maybe been top 5 others not, depending on how other guys were performing. But underrated he was for sure, what changes people’s perspective is that he is now a winner, and more than that the way he wiped the floor with all the ‘soft’ and ‘not clutch’ labels people had pinned on him. Dirk right now cannot be debated, he is among the very top dogs no doubt, saying differently is biased and not objective, this should be obvious to everybody with just a bit of understanding about basketball. Before this seasons playoffs’ performance by Dirk, no matter how good he was people would always say ‘he’s soft, he folds under pressure etc etc’ and this would be the big asterisk next to him (much like it is to Lebron right now) when ranking his game. This period is now over and therefore people probably (even the many haters and the almost reverse-racists, face it Americans don’t like a huge German sticking it to them in what they consider their sport) starts to value Dirk, Americans loves winners and Dirk now is one where some month ago he was the ‘soft Euro punk who would fold under the slightest pressure’. Therefor he gets the praise from tons of people who used to not rate him. Although I still feel many people are still underrating him, seriously what are the arguments for putting Rose, Durant and Kobe over Dirk now? (read my 9:12 post the part of Dirk vs. Rose, most of the same arguments can be used regarding Durant and Kobe).

My bad caboose, your comment hadnt posted when I started that.

datkid; I just saw that your question was about Deron/Cp3 against Wade. Hahaha I read it as Rose. Must be a sign that it is time to get some shut-eye. Will have to give my opinions on them vs. Wade as a scorer some other time. Peace fellas.

You and I tend to have the same viewpoints on most basketball stuff. We had the same top 5 for players so I guess it figures we’d point to the same evidence.

I did up until freshman year of high school, but I wrecked my back playing ball. Docs say I can’t ever play a full game again (I’ve played blacktop games but can’t go full contact) so it’s why I devote my time to the NBA; I can’t walk away from the game I love.

Apparently Rose is all hype, here I am thinking he’s a better scorer than williams, only to find out I was sadly mistaken. It seems if williams shoot four more shots, he would match Rose total easily. Just because williams is a better shooter does not mean he can be a better scorer. First of all, he is not a great shooter, he is good, and he is good at many things he does, but the only thing he is great at is his dribble. Rose is a great driver, and finisher for his size, he also has great athleticism. Rose has an array of moves around the basket as well.

@nbk and @Caboose… aw shucks, you two… how sweet!